New CJ-4 oils in older Flat Tappet Engine

[Dieselfuture]

Sorry guys, I know it's been like a broken record, but now that some time gone by has anybody got comments on using newer stuff with less zinc and phosphor on older engines. I've been running amsoil (1400 ppm zink) for few years now and don't have any problems with it other than price and the way you got to get it if you want a half a.. deal on it. Plus I don't put enough miles on it a year to justify it anymore. Called Cummins and they use Valvoline Premium Blue in just about anything and it replaces all of the older stuff. Guy said it had 1200 ppm of zinc in it and was plenty for flat tappets, price at cummins was $14.50 a gallon. Then I called Delo and talked with their support guy and was told that their Delo 400le 15w40 is one of the best and they have billions of miles to prove it. Zinc was 1300 ppm, and price is $29 for 2.5gal at Walmart. I hear some guys run ether oil and put some zddp additive also, but not sure if it's even needed if both places told me their oil is fine the way it is. I was thinking I can still run amsoil bypass filter and change it once every 2 years and use fleet guard LF16035 for full flow. Also there is a fleet guard LF9028 that has full flow and bypass in one if I decide to get rid of amsoil bypass. Let the steam roll. Thank you all.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Dieselfuture

[Vais01]

Sorry guys, I know it's been like a broken record, but now that some time gone by has anybody got comments on using newer stuff with less zinc and phosphor on older engines. I've been running amsoil for few years now and don't have any problems with it other than price and the way you got to get it if you want a half a.. deal on it. Plus I don't put enough miles on it a year to justify it anymore. Called Cummins and they use Valvoline Premium Blue in just about anything and it replaces all of the older stuff. Guy said it had 1200 ppm of zinc in it and was plenty for flat tappets, price at cummins was $14.50 a gallon. Then I called Delo and talked with their support guy and was told that their Delo 400le 15w40 is one of the best and they have billions of miles to prove it. Zinc was 1300 ppm, and price is $29 for 2.5gal at Walmart. I hear some guys run ether oil and put some zddp additive also, but not sure if it's even needed if both places told me their oil is fine the way it is. I was thinking I can still run amsoil bypass filter and change it once every 2 years and use fleet guard LF16035 for full flow. Also there is a fleet guard LF9028 that has full flow and bypass in one if I decide to get rid of amsoil bypass. Let the steam roll. Thank you all.

Fleetguard filters for sure. As far as oil any quality 15W-40 meeting the CJ-4 API spec shall work.

The 6.7 Cummins also uses a flat tappet system so you will be fine.

Just food for thought the current Ram Trucks Diesel supplement manual states Mopar approved, Shell Rotella or Shell Rimulla branded oil.

I prefer Shell Rotella oils over Chevron Delo oils. I run Rotella T6 and have better results as far as wear in my oil analysis.

Do not run ZDDP additives as they are not approved for use by Cummins.

Hope this is helpful.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Vais01

[TFaoro]

Yes you can run ZDDP in your truck. It's made specifically to stop premature wear on high pressure surfaces such as the tappets. The shop that machined my engine does man high hp (bully dog truck), stock hp, and medium hp builds and he requires it in all new motors because much of the zinc has been taken out of today's oils. 

 

His exact word were: "If anyone is running conventional oil, which I prefer you should put some sort of zinc additive in to keep from wearing the high pressure areas. I have personally rebuilt 4 engines that were 2013 or newer that had cam lobes worn off. I also run 1 bottle of ZDDP in my 12 valve just to make sure things are lubed properly. You will more than likely be just fine running without additive in older, broke-in motors but chancing it with a new motor just isn't smart."

 

Take that as you will; I know I will run ZDDP in my truck for the rest of its life. 

[Vais01]

Yes you can run ZDDP in your truck. It's made specifically to stop premature wear on high pressure surfaces such as the tappets. The shop that machined my engine does man high hp (bully dog truck), stock hp, and medium hp builds and he requires it in all new motors because much of the zinc has been taken out of today's oils.

His exact word were: "If anyone is running conventional oil, which I prefer you should put some sort of zinc additive in to keep from wearing the high pressure areas. I have personally rebuilt 4 engines that were 2013 or newer that had cam lobes worn off. I also run 1 bottle of ZDDP in my 12 valve just to make sure things are lubed properly. You will more than likely be just fine running without additive in older, broke-in motors but chancing it with a new motor just isn't smart."

Take that as you will; I know I will run ZDDP in my truck for the rest of its life.

I have heard of the cams flattening out on newer Cummins engines and directly from Cummins they said DO NOT USE ZDDP additives on both pre and post emissions based engines. Not sure the exact reasoning behind this.

I have been told that Cummins had some soft cams that were not properly heat treated make it out to the public.

[TFaoro]

Can you find where it says that? I'm just curious what their reasons were.

 

My guess is 1: It makes the emmissions crap mad (Every engine burns a tad bit of oil no matter what) 2: They aren't making any money off of it so why would they want you to run it.

[Vais01]

Can you find where it says that? I'm just curious what their reasons were.

My guess is 1: It makes the emmissions crap mad (Every engine burns a tad bit of oil no matter what) 2: They aren't making any money off of it so why would they want you to run it.

Not sure this was via phone call I made to them pertaining to some oil type and weight questions. I'm sure it's probably due to some sort of liability or possibly some component may not be compatible with something within the additive.

I do know Cummins manual states do not use break-in oils and during a build to only use clean API approved engine oil. I do know and have used lubriplate on main and rod bearings and tappet surfaces and cam bearings. This was also older engines 12 valves mainly.

DPF trucks use a CCV filter so only the gasses make it through no mist but I'm sure some ZDDP additive vapors off and enters the intake tract.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Vais01

[jigdog]

Diesel

I had the amsoil double set up for a lot of miles when I was driving a lot but I removed and wish I had not. If you aren't driving it as much keep the amsoil in it and change the filters out more often

[Dieselfuture]

Anyone else wants to vote for adding zddp or using straight oil, so far it's 50/50, and what brand of oil. Remember mine concern is cam and lifters. I'm sure other than that oil is fine for everything else.

[dripley]

350k on the clock on mostly Rotella. Some Delo 400 le in the mix of late. no additives or synthetic.

[Dieselfuture]

350k on the clock on mostly Rotella. Some Delo 400 le in the mix of late. no additives or synthetic.

Thank you I got more confidence now using what ever is a good deal. As long as it's still meets the spec.

[Mopar1973Man]

Old CajFlynn did oil changes every 20k miles, Chevron Delo 15w-40, Fleetguard filters, no synthetics, no additves, and cleared over 1 million miles.

http://forum.mopar1973man.com/index.php?/topic/2526-1000000-miles-yet/page-4

 

TDR57_Oil.pdf

[Dieselfuture]

Old CajFlynn did oil changes every 20k miles, Chevron Delo 15w-40, Fleetguard filters, no synthetics, no additves, and cleared over 1 million miles.

http://forum.mopar1973man.com/index.php?/topic/2526-1000000-miles-yet/page-4

TDR57_Oil.pdf

Looks like it was done on older ci-4 oil and not cj-4 according to that chart. I'm wondering about newer oils that have less zinc in them. Maybe I missed something.

[dripley]

Thank you I got more confidence now using what ever is a good deal. As long as it's still meets the spec.

After seeing the pdf in Mikes post it make me wonder about the Delo 400 LE. It seems the Delo 400 ranked much better. I have used Rotella T for almost the entire life of the truck.

[Dieselfuture]

After seeing the pdf in Mikes post it make me wonder about the Delo 400 LE. It seems the Delo 400 ranked much better. I have used Rotella T for almost the entire life of the truck.

We'll let this marinade a bit longer and see what comes out it.

[Mopar1973Man]

2006-2007 was the break point for CI-4 to CJ-4 oils.

 

The post for Cajflynn is dated on 2011. So he was using mostly CJ-4 oils on the tall end. The truck rolled 1.3 million miles when the truck's life ended in a traffic accident. From what I know he sold the truck and the new owner is still running that engine. Now I know AH64ID says that long haul use is easier on a engine than daily driver. How much truth there is in that I don't know.

[TFaoro]

Less cold starts = less wear on the engine, so I'd believe it.

 

I'd like to hear what AH64ID has to say on the subject......

[dripley]

I would agree highway miles are easier on the truck. But Caj's highway miles and mine are a lot different. He strapped some pretty good loads on that truck. I tow pretty heavy at 15k but less than 10% of my miles are loaded. Empty I am only about 7500#  depending on what is in the bed at the time.

[Vais01]

I myself run synthetic because my engine seems to perform better with it.

That said I highly recommend Rotella products both regular dino and synthetic.

[Vais01]

2006-2007 was the break point for CI-4 to CJ-4 oils.

The post for Cajflynn is dated on 2011. So he was using mostly CJ-4 oils on the tall end. The truck rolled 1.3 million miles when the truck's life ended in a traffic accident. From what I know he sold the truck and the new owner is still running that engine. Now I know AH64ID says that long haul use is easier on a engine than daily driver. How much truth there is in that I don't know.

This is 100% true. AH64ID is correct. Bearings see the highest wear on startup and shut down because the oil pressure is not adequate to provide lubrication. The wear is minor but in the long run will remove a tiny amount of material from the bearing surface. You see this with regular oil analysis as an increase of wear metals. Mostly lead, tin and copper.

Newer trucks may use a polymer bonded bearing to help prevent premature wear from shut down and start-up.

[Mopar1973Man]

I would agree highway miles are easier on the truck. But Caj's highway miles and mine are a lot different. He strapped some pretty good loads on that truck. I tow pretty heavy at 15k but less than 10% of my miles are loaded. Empty I am only about 7500#  depending on what is in the bed at the time.

 

Yeah... He did tow some huge stuff...