tach problem

[SLEDWRECKER]

I give up I don't know what else to do. I finished my 3 month project about 2 weeks ago... twins, injectors,cross overs, o ringed head, totally swapped the complete wiring harness ecm, pcm, all sensors and VP pump and NV5600 along with the cluster from a wrecked 02 to my 98.5, the problem is when I start it the tach works for 7 seconds then goes dead and I get the code for cam sensor problem, I've tried both sensors and both vp pumps, checked all connections, ran the cluster through the diagnostic test and still no joy. I even tried the cluster from the 98.5, everything on both trucks worked perfectly before I started this project. I think when the tach isn't working it is also detuned as I can only pull 40 psi with the twins and 240 injectors and the juice on 6. If I shut the juice off I cant hit 20 psi and it is a pig. Oh and the tach on the edge attitude works fine. What am I missing? Help:banghead:please....

[guesswho512]

i would start with the CCD bus, http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/general/ccd/ccd.htm

check all the grounds. it surprises me that it works for a couple sec b4 going dead.

wait....it thought to older one didn't have a cam sensor,only crank sensor, or am i wrong?

[SLEDWRECKER]

Older had both, the 02 only has cam sensor

[guesswho512]

i know there a 3 different versions of the MAP sensor...are you sure the cam sensors are the same? but the edge is getting accurate(to your knowledge) rpms? that would come from cam sensor....and wait about the rest of the cluster? is it on and accurate?

[Mopar1973Man]

What are the error code number again... I would like to look them up in another book to see whats up...

[SLEDWRECKER]

P0341 is the code I am getting. As far as the MAP goes I swapped it from the 02 also then consequently I had to get the right harness and adapter from edge for the juice. I have ran the cluster through the diagnostic test and get no errors, I even tried the cluster from the 98.5 and same thing with the tach, although there we're other problems when I hooked that cluster up like the high beam indicator was on all the time, but the tach prob was the same. I've been driving it for about 700 mi. now and every thing else works like it should, even the cruise. The tach on the edge seems to be dead accurate. Thanks for the help.

[Mopar1973Man]

Monitor & Set ConditionsCamshaft Position Sensor (CMP) sensor signal is monitored when engine is running. DTC may be stored whenCMP sensor does not deliver an engine speed or position signal to Engine Control Module (ECM).Possible Causes DTC Equal To Freeze Frame High Resistance In Ground Circuit CMP Sensor Signal Circuit High Resistance CMP Sensor Signal Shorted To Ground 5-volt Supply Circuit High Resistance CMP Sensor 5-volt Supply Circuit Shorted To Ground Intermittent Wiring Harness ECMTesting1. Turn ignition on with engine off. Using DRBIII® scan tool, check for DTCs. If Good Trip Counter forDTC P0341 is displayed and equal to zero, go to next step. If Good Trip Counter for DTC P0341 isdisplayed and not equal to zero, go to step 3 .2. Turn ignition off. Disconnect CMP sensor harness connector. Check for poor connection/terminal contactat CMP sensor. Repair as necessary. Turn ignition on. While observing camshaft position sensor RPM onscan tool, intermittently jumper CMP sensor harness connector terminal "A" (Violet/White wire) andterminal "C" (Gray wire) together using a jumper wire. If camshaft position sensor RPM changes, go tostep 5 . If camshaft position sensor RPM does not change, go to step 6 .3. Using scan tool, determine if DTC matches FREEZE FRAME DTC. If DTC is equal to FREEZEFRAME DTC, go to next step. If DTC is not equal to FREEZE FRAME DTC, freeze frame DTC is ahigher priority DTC and should be diagnosed before diagnosing DTC P0341. See DIAGNOSTICTROUBLE CODE DEFINITIONS .4. Ensure ignition is on with engine off. Using scan tool, read FREEZE FRAME data. Road test vehicleunder conditions displayed in FREEZE FRAME data parameters and pay particular attention to DTCsetting conditions such as speed, temperature and load. Using scan tool, check for DTCs. If the GOODTRIPS counter for the specific DTC changed to zero, go to next step. If the GOOD TRIPS counter for thespecific DTC did not change to zero, go to step 11 .5. Turn ignition off. Connect a test light between battery voltage and terminal "B" (Black/Dark Blue wire)of CMP sensor harness connector. If test light illuminates brightly, go to next step. If test light does notilluminate brightly, repair open or high resistance in Black/Dark Blue wire between CMP sensor andECM.6. Ensure CMP sensor harness connector is still disconnected. Turn ignition on. Using DVOM, measurevoltage between ground and terminal "A" (Violet/White wire) of CMP sensor harness connector. Ifvoltage is 4.75-5.25 volts, go to next step. If voltage is not 4.75-5.25 volts, go to step 9 .7. Turn ignition off. Disconnect ECM harness connector. ECM is located on driver's side of engine, just infront of fuel transfer pump and contains a 50-pin connector. Using DVOM, measure resistance of Graywire between terminal "C" on CMP sensor harness connector and terminal No. 17 on ECM harnessconnector. If resistance is less than 5 ohms, go to next step. If resistance is 5 ohms or greater, repair openor high resistance in Gray wire between CMP sensor and ECM.8. Using DVOM, measure resistance between ground and terminal "C" (Gray wire) on CMP sensor harnessconnector. If resistance is 5 ohms or greater, replace and program the ECM. See appropriate REMOVAL,OVERHAUL & INSTALLATION article. If resistance is less than 5 ohms, repair short to ground in Graywire between CMP sensor and ECM.9. Turn ignition off. Ensure CMP sensor harness connector is still disconnected. Disconnect ECM harnessconnector. ECM is located on driver's side of engine, just in front of fuel transfer pump and contains a 50-pin connector. Using DVOM, measure resistance of Violet/White wire between terminal "A" on CMPsensor harness connector and terminal No. 3 on ECM harness connector. If resistance is less than 5 ohms,go to next step. If resistance is 5 ohms or greater, repair open or high resistance in Violet/White wirebetween CMP sensor and ECM.10. Using DVOM, measure resistance between ground and terminal "A" (Violet/White wire) on CMP sensorharness connector. If resistance is 5 ohms or greater, replace and program the ECM. See appropriateREMOVAL, OVERHAUL & INSTALLATION article. If resistance is less than 5 ohms, repair short toground in Violet/White wire between CMP sensor and ECM.11. Start engine. Using scan tool, monitor camshaft position sensor RPM while wiggling wiring harnessbetween CMP sensor and ECM. If camshaft position sensor RPM goes to zero at any time, fault has beenlocated. Repair wiring harness as necessary. If camshaft position sensor RPM does not go to zero at anytime, test is complete.

[SLEDWRECKER]

Wow, Did I mention I am just a dumb truck and heavy equipment salesman? I think maybe I need to make a trip to New Meadows, Haven't been through there since last summer over our 4th of July vacation when we went to Nampa to visit friends. Thanks for the info Moparman but could you give it to me in redneck terms? I don't guess I have the proper scan tools to do most of this stuff. I did all the rest of the work on my truck by myself along with some forum help but this computer stuff is over my head. I did check voltage at the plug going to the cam sensor and had 4.97 volts with the truck off and key on. That's about the end of my capabilities. Still confused:cookoo:

[Mopar1973Man]

Possible of cam walking away from the cam sensor? This was bought to me just a few minutes ago from another member that called me and it possible for the cam to walk forward away from the sensor. (thrust plate getting loose?)

---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 AM ----------

Monitor & Set Conditions

Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) sensor signal is monitored when engine is running. DTC may be stored when

CMP sensor does not deliver an engine speed or position signal to Engine Control Module (ECM).

Possible Causes

 DTC Equal To Freeze Frame

 High Resistance In Ground Circuit

 CMP Sensor Signal Circuit High Resistance

 CMP Sensor Signal Shorted To Ground

 5-volt Supply Circuit High Resistance

 CMP Sensor 5-volt Supply Circuit Shorted To Ground

 Intermittent Wiring Harness

 ECM

Testing

1. Turn ignition on with engine off. Using DRBIII® scan tool, check for DTCs. If Good Trip Counter for

DTC P0341 is displayed and equal to zero, go to next step. If Good Trip Counter for DTC P0341 is

displayed and not equal to zero, go to step 3 .

Hook up a scan tool and see if the code is present.

2. Turn ignition off. Disconnect CMP sensor harness connector. Check for poor connection/terminal contact

at CMP sensor. Repair as necessary. Turn ignition on. While observing camshaft position sensor RPM on

scan tool, intermittently jumper CMP sensor harness connector terminal "A" (Violet/White wire) and

terminal "C" (Gray wire) together using a jumper wire. If camshaft position sensor RPM changes, go to

step 5 . If camshaft position sensor RPM does not change, go to step 6 .

Using a scan tool like a ScanGauge II watch the RPM's as you alter the cam signal. Look for change of RPM's.

3. Using scan tool, determine if DTC matches FREEZE FRAME DTC. If DTC is equal to FREEZE

FRAME DTC, go to next step. If DTC is not equal to FREEZE FRAME DTC, freeze frame DTC is a

higher priority DTC and should be diagnosed before diagnosing DTC P0341. See DIAGNOSTIC

TROUBLE CODE DEFINITIONS .

If there is any other error codes related to the cam sensor you might diagnose them first.

4. Ensure ignition is on with engine off. Using scan tool, read FREEZE FRAME data. Road test vehicle

under conditions displayed in FREEZE FRAME data parameters and pay particular attention to DTC

setting conditions such as speed, temperature and load. Using scan tool, check for DTCs. If the GOOD

TRIPS counter for the specific DTC changed to zero, go to next step. If the GOOD TRIPS counter for the

specific DTC did not change to zero, go to step 11 .

ScanGauge II can display the freeze frame data and provide when and where the code trips.

5. Turn ignition off. Connect a test light between battery voltage and terminal "B" (Black/Dark Blue wire)

of CMP sensor harness connector. If test light illuminates brightly, go to next step. If test light does not

illuminate brightly, repair open or high resistance in Black/Dark Blue wire between CMP sensor and

ECM.

If the light doesn't shine bright you got a bad signal wire. Repair as needed.

6. Ensure CMP sensor harness connector is still disconnected. Turn ignition on. Using DVOM, measure

voltage between ground and terminal "A" (Violet/White wire) of CMP sensor harness connector. If

voltage is 4.75-5.25 volts, go to next step. If voltage is not 4.75-5.25 volts, go to step 9 .

Which you done...

7. Turn ignition off. Disconnect ECM harness connector. ECM is located on driver's side of engine, just in

front of fuel transfer pump and contains a 50-pin connector. Using DVOM, measure resistance of Gray

wire between terminal "C" on CMP sensor harness connector and terminal No. 17 on ECM harness

connector. If resistance is less than 5 ohms, go to next step. If resistance is 5 ohms or greater, repair open

or high resistance in Gray wire between CMP sensor and ECM.

Check the wring between the cam sensor and the ECM of open, shorts, or internal resistance.

8. Using DVOM, measure resistance between ground and terminal "C" (Gray wire) on CMP sensor harness

connector. If resistance is 5 ohms or greater, replace and program the ECM. See appropriate REMOVAL,

OVERHAUL & INSTALLATION article. If resistance is less than 5 ohms, repair short to ground in Gray

wire between CMP sensor and ECM.

Check the wring between the cam sensor and the ECM of open, shorts, or internal resistance.

9. Turn ignition off. Ensure CMP sensor harness connector is still disconnected. Disconnect ECM harness

connector. ECM is located on driver's side of engine, just in front of fuel transfer pump and contains a 50-

pin connector. Using DVOM, measure resistance of Violet/White wire between terminal "A" on CMP

sensor harness connector and terminal No. 3 on ECM harness connector. If resistance is less than 5 ohms,

go to next step. If resistance is 5 ohms or greater, repair open or high resistance in Violet/White wire

between CMP sensor and ECM.

Check the wring between the cam sensor and the ECM of open, shorts, or internal resistance.

10. Using DVOM, measure resistance between ground and terminal "A" (Violet/White wire) on CMP sensor

harness connector. If resistance is 5 ohms or greater, replace and program the ECM. See appropriate

REMOVAL, OVERHAUL & INSTALLATION article. If resistance is less than 5 ohms, repair short to

ground in Violet/White wire between CMP sensor and ECM.

Check the wring between the cam sensor and the ECM of open, shorts, or internal resistance.

11. Start engine. Using scan tool, monitor camshaft position sensor RPM while wiggling wiring harness

between CMP sensor and ECM. If camshaft position sensor RPM goes to zero at any time, fault has been

located. Repair wiring harness as necessary. If camshaft position sensor RPM does not go to zero at any

time, test is complete.

Wiggle test...

Simple version to help ya out...

ScanGauge is a really helpful tool for this... www.scangauge.com

[SLEDWRECKER]

Would the edge still read the rpm's if the cam was walking away from the sensor? This all just started happening when I did all this work too. coincidental?

[Mopar1973Man]

Try pulling the Edge off for a test run and see if the Edge is the cause...

(Man... I'm glad I got the Edge Comp without all the toyz!)

[SLEDWRECKER]

I will try pulling the juice (good idea), New prob, Coming home from work yesterday I had to drive about 5 miles out on a ranch road, rough and slow idling along, after about 15 minutes I start getting the (lope) almost steady, I will describe it as the lope you get from the .093 tubes which I have but have never really had the lope other than on take off, so when I discovered it I put the clutch in and rev it up and get blue smoke (a lot of it) and a bad miss, I only notice the miss when I try to rev it up, anyway I get back to the highway and once I can get after it then it seems to clean up and ran great about another 35 miles until I get home. Pull in my yard and at idle I kick it up immediately and I have the same problem again. I don't know if the HO pump that I put in the night before is **** up or whats going on now so I went ahead and swapped the SO pump back in last night. I just need to bleed the air out tonight and fire it and will see what happens. I'm getting pretty good at changing the VP pump. About 2 hours last night and completely done except bleeding air out. Think I should try for nascar?

[Mopar1973Man]

That blue smoke seem to me you got a hung inector(s) that is bleeding in the cylinder(s). I would pull them and have them inspected and pop tested.

[SLEDWRECKER]

I forgot to mention it is also making a distinct buzzing sound kind of like when you put a card in the spokes of your bike and ride it about 75 mph?

[SLEDWRECKER]

Update, I put the SO pump back on, runs good again. Disconnected the juice and no joy, did all the steps on your previous post for troubleshooting, everything seems good, still no joy. As I was still befugled why the edge displays the RPM so I started it with the cam sensor totally disconnected and guess what the juice still reads accurate rpm:omg: So I go 1 step further and pull the belt off thinking it may read from the alternator, nope still works, so at this junctior I have to assume the edge reads rpm from the VP? as that was the only thing possible left? I also noticed the cluster tach actually worked for about 1-2 seconds when I started it with the cam sensor unplugged, where as it usually works for about 7 seconds.

[Mopar1973Man]

98.5 does have a cranksensor too... Back by the starter... The starter will have to come out for removal...

[SLEDWRECKER]

This I understand, but the thing is it's not being used anymore as I have all the wiring/pcm & ecm from the 02 in it now. So it is essentially an 02.

[guesswho512]

Engine RPM and timing are derived from the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) on 1998-2000 models. A 35 tooth tone ring with a gap where the 36th tooth should be is bolted to the crankshaft. A hall effect sensor registers each tooth as it passes and sends the signal to the ECM. The tooth gap corresponds to 60 degrees BTDC of cylinder #1. A Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) senses a hole in the back of the camshaft drive gear to check for TDC of cylinder #1. This signal is used for diagnostic purposes and is not used to control the fuel system. The crankshaft position sensor was deleted for 2001 and 2002 models; engine speed, crankshaft position, and injection timing information will be derived from the camshaft position sensor signal. Notches are cut into the rear face of the camshaft gear. A hall effect sensor registers each notch as it passes, and sends the signal to the ECM. A missing notch corresponds to TDC of cylinder #1.

do you have the cummins part # of the sensor you purchased?

[SLEDWRECKER]

So if I read that right the 02 has notches cut in the gear for the sensor to read, and the 98.5 just has a hole in it? That could be the problem! Looks like I may have to swap the gear? Anybody else on board with this? BTW I tried both CMP sensors from the 98.5 and the 02 and no joy, they we're the same P.N. but I don't know what it was.

[SLEDWRECKER]

Thanks for that post guesswho, I havent swapped it yet but in light of this info I now am convinced the cam gear is the problem, I did not realize they were cut with a tone ring on the 01/02 but only a hole for reference on the 98.5-00, Makes total sense now. You are the bomb, I was about to jump ship on this problem altogether, Thanks!