Another battery thread.....

[KATOOM]

My O'reilly group 34 batteries have done me well.  Even though they're 1000 CA and 800 CCA, they're date stamped '09 which means about 7 years old.  Old enough that I'm betting I'll be looking for replacements soon.....so why not now instead of in a parking lot or when I need to be to work.  And old batteries add more stress to the charging system so as much as I dont care to spend money, it seems like the right move.

So as a 21st century consumer does, I shopped around the internet and found NAPA to have a pretty good deal on a group 27 (the OEM size) which have 1000 CA and 810 CCA.  They even have a small rebate to boot.  I dropped by my local NAPA to pick up a couple but none were in stock so they had to get them sent down from another location.  I paid for them and came back later to pick them up.  The problem is that when I got there the ratings were not the same but showed a low 940 CA and 750 CCA.  I certainly wasnt happy and said whats the deal with the lower amps but strangely no one had a reasonable answer other than "they'll work fine".  Well fine or not, thats not what I paid for.  Long story short, I tried taking home their group 65's but they didnt fit so by now I was just getting agitated.  And after never getting a reasonable answer as to why their batteries are not rated as advertised, I eventually called enough NAPA personal to figure out that NAPA had the ratings changed a couple years ago by Johnson Control (who makes the battery) but have yet to update their website information.  No one though I talked to (even Johnson Controls) could or would tell me why they changed the amp ratings or how the change was made either.....  I dont like sketchy things like that.

So I got a refund and went shopping around again.  This time I found Costco now sells Interstate batteries for incredible deals whereby I can get a group 34 (27's are hard to find these days) with 1000 CA and 810 CCA for like $90!  Sounds like the way to go.....

But then as I'm shopping around some more I find this place who sells Northstar AGM batteries and they have group 34 AGM with crazy high amp ratings of something like 1500 CA and 950 CCA.  Usually that battery costs around $250 - $350 but they'll sell them to me for $200 each.  Hmmm.....  Should I care enough to spend the extra $210 over what the Costco batteries will cost me or should I go for what appears to be enough cranking amps to start all my vehicles at the same time?  Would be nice in the cold though and I understand AGM batteries last longer.

I figured some of you would care and some of you would say "whatever works".  I just needed some opinions.....

[Wild and Free]

I tell everyone not to look at brand names ect, Go with whoever offers the best prorated warranty in the proper group size.

An old timer once told me you can always spot a cheaply made battery due to the built in handles, makes them easier to change every year, I have actually seen some truth to that lol.

My 05 has 125K miles and still runing the factory original OEMS.

[Me78569]

id look on your local craigslist and see if anyone sells blem batteries.  

 

there is a guy here that sells mislabeled batteries for $50 group 24 $65 group27 and $75 group 31's.  He amp tests them in front of you and offers a great warranty.  

 

I have 5 of his batteries in various things and am VERY happy with all of them.

 

 

Beyond that I agree with Wild

[Mopar1973Man]

I won't worry about getting 1000 CCA batteries. Even in stock standard, 750 CCA is fine. I'm running WalMart 810 CCA batteries and they are  working fine for sub-zero weather in Idaho. Batteries aren't the entire trick but good main cables. It doesn't do you lick of good to have 2000 CCA under the hood if the cables can't deliver the full 2000 CCA because of internal corrosion issues in your main cables. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

I like cheap with the best warranty. Wonder why the 27's are getting harder to find? I have noticed that when I have looked at them. I usually look at batteries whenever I am around them just to check pricing and have noticed fewer of them when I do look.

[IBMobile]

                             If you want to know about batteries check out this link.

                                   http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/index.htm

[KATOOM]

Wow, loads of information in that link.  Thank you.

[IBMobile]

You're welcome.  So much info, my eyes started to glaze over and my mind turned to mush.   

[TFaoro]

On 2/26/2016 at 9:12 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

I won't worry about getting 1000 CCA batteries. Even in stock standard, 750 CCA is fine. I'm running WalMart 810 CCA batteries and they are  working fine for sub-zero weather in Idaho. Batteries aren't the entire trick but good main cables. It doesn't do you lick of good to have 2000 CCA under the hood if the cables can't deliver the full 2000 CCA because of internal corrosion issues in your main cables. 

This is Exactly where I'm at with batteries. I run wal-mart and haven't had any issues. When they go bad I replace them and keep the old ones for the farm equipment (only get run during the summer) then use the farm ones as cores. 

@KATOOM, if you don't notice any lack in cranking power why replace them? They very rarely just stop working completely. Especially with summer in a couple months I don't see the point until you notice some slower cranking. 

[KATOOM]

You make good points.....  I guess I was just trying to be ahead of the game since batteries generally last about 7 years and I'm at year 6.

[Mopar1973Man]

Maybe you should be here... I get better than 10 years from batteries. Like my batteries that power the house will last over 15 years if I play my card right. As for vehicles all my batteries are lasting at least 10 years. The biggest thing is bein able to do proper maintenance of the batteries once a month. 

 

[KATOOM]

I really appreciate all your input for sure.  In defense of my logic to replace them before they quit.....this is really what I'm thinking.  These trucks are particularly sensitive to electronic anomalies.  Nothing anyone here doesn't already fully understand either so I know this is preaching to the choir.  Lots of threads out there where people are having all kinds of odd electrical issues and random codes and they never bother to look at their batteries or alternator.

So knowing that batteries acts like a filter for the electrical system and its sometimes difficult to know if one is getting weak and potentially adding stress to the entire electrical system, I just thought it would be wise to change them out before they cause problems.  I certainly really have no desire to spend the couple hundred dollars.....

If this was pertaining to any of my older vehicles then you can guarantee that the batteries would remain until they had nothing left.

[Mopar1973Man]

KATOOM you missed something else. You are on the right track...

Being I came from the older muscle generation the older Dodge alternator were really stout alternators for their time. Now with the on set of electronic OBDII requirement for vehicles that means more electrical loads. So they increased alternator sizes. So what happens lets say one battery (passenger side) has some failed cells (shorted). So now we've got 140 Amp alternator now compared to 45-60 Amp alternators of the past. So now you have more electrical demand to even start the truck (grid heater and starter), then once it running (grid heater and all electronics), so now the alternator takes a beating so eventually the diodes get hot and start to fail. so now the noise starts to increase. Being today most everything is digital it really hard to see or hear a noise like of the old school. Back in the 60-70's older vehicles with AM radios would pick up on a failed alternator quick. So now back to the bad battery. If the battery on the passenger side is bad it not be detected for high case temperature since the sensor is on the driver side. So the alternator will continue to fight the failed battery increasing its own stress.

[KATOOM]

Hmmm.....  Good info.

[Mopar1973Man]

So here is something to consider. 14.5 V x 60 A = 870 Watts. Now upgrade to the newer alternators 14.5 V x 140 A = 2,030 Watts of heat. So now consider the loads mainly the grid heaters hitting. Now you've got 2,000 watts of heat pouring out of the diodes. Now consider absolutely cold morning say minus numbers, weak or damaged batteries, then grid heater hitting plus the draw of the starter on the batteries. Then the alternator attempting to recover still while the grid heater continue to cycle. What do you think those minus temperature diodes are doing with 2,000 watts of current passing through them? Ah I know I got you thinking now don't I?

Edited February 28, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[KATOOM]

So it seems the largest amp capacity battery is the best for reducing the load on the diodes.

[Mopar1973Man]

Won't matter. Still the amount of energy removed from the battery will have to be recharged back so high the CA / CCA the longer the charging time will be. Being the grids draw 195 amps max that means that energy was pulled from the battery and will have to be recharged. Larger the batteries the longer the recharge is going to be. It not the voltage on the gauge its the specific gravity of each cell. So simply put most of us just measure cell voltage. 

Good tidbit of info on charging.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery

More about reducing the over all load...

Something to think about. Just having a quick cycle of my house system because of a brown out I still got to do a 2 hour bulk charge. This is only $4,800 worth of battery nothing much... 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[CSM]

Another thing that kills diodes.  Jump starting arcs are hard on stuff.  Jump starting with a running engine is bad. 

As far as filters work, the capacitance required to dampen out the pulses at the relatively low voltage would be near impossible.  No zener diodes, no magic fix aside just quality parts. 

[KATOOM]

As awesome as your battery bank is (wish I had the same thing so I can get rid of PG&E)..... I'm not sure we can compare your larger banked 6 volt batteries in a DC to AC invertor system since even though there is some relationship to the principles of whats happening, the charging process isn't.  Meaning, I've been down this road with my RV/trailer batteries and how they function and recharge and I'm not sure its not an analogy I'd use for my truck.  Matter of fact, on that very note, last year I pulled my trailer somewhere with very low charge on the house batteries.  During that trip I noticed some odd things happen which I can only attribute to the issue that trucks charging system was trying to handle dealing with the trucks batteries and the trailer batteries which weren't at the same charge level during that trip.

What I'm getting at is, if the diodes are working their hardest to replenish the batteries capacity which has been used up for the cycling grids, I would presume that if the overall capacity of the battery is greater then the alternator/PCM will recognize this difference in capacity as minor in relationship to that capacity and place the charge mode in a more "float" manner instead of a more "boost/recharge" mode.  Thus much easier on the diodes and stator over time.  If the batteries are small and have just enough capacity to start the truck one time, imagine what the alternator stator and diodes have to endure to replenish that battery for the next go around.

Edited February 28, 2016 by KATOOM

[Mopar1973Man]

Still regardless of circumstances... A battery is a battery. For the conversation here we are discussing lead acid. Still the fact remain bigger the storage capacity the longer it will take to chemically recharge a battery. So smaller batteries with less capacity will charge faster than a larger battery with more capacity. Once again it comes back to chemically altering the lead plate and the electrolyte by the means of current flow and voltage. So still the larger the batteries the more charge time to be properly maintained. 

This is why there are more failures typically with folks buying super large batteries but live in the city. So the start up drive 3-5 miles and shut down. That 1000 CCA battery just got kicked out of bed cold, tickled with 5-10 minutes of charge time and put back to sleep again. So failure rate tends to be higher because the overall charge time for larger batteries should be longer as well. Again it about chemical changing the materials. There are other factors like battery cables, terminal condition, other accessory loads that might impact that charge time and require longer.  Optimally the under hood temperature needs to come up to full temperature then another 10-15 miles of travel minimum on a cold day. Remember cold batteries resist charging so here we go again that places more load on the alternator force feed a resistive battery. 

38 minutes ago, KATOOM said:

I would presume that if the overall capacity of the battery is greater then the alternator/PCM will recognize this difference in capacity as minor in relationship to that capacity and place the charge mode in a more "float" manner instead of a more "boost/recharge" mode. 

No. Because the PCM goes by battery temperature. So the physically bigger group 31's will take longer to heat up and charge completely than an smaller group 27 that is smaller in CCAs.

More on charging temperature...

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures

Edited February 28, 2016 by Mopar1973Man