Brake shudder at higher speeds

[lcattin]

I hope someone can shed some light on this issue for me.

On my 99 3500 2wd last year I put all new brake hardware on the truck. Rotor/hubs, calipers, pads and this weekend had to put a new drum, wheel cylinder and shoes on one side in the rear.

What happens is that just recently the truck started shaking, bouncing when applying brakes from a speed above 50 or so.

Yesterday I pulled the front wheels and checked the rotor runout and the passenger side is only about .001" but the driver side is right at .007" runout on the face. Also looks like some hot spots on both rotors also.  I put high end pads on the truck.  Will the cheaper pads run cooler?

Is that enough to cause the problem that I am seeing?  I can feel it in the steering slightly also.
 

 

[Me78569]

Do you feel it in the brake pedal?

 

 

 

 

[lcattin]

Yes, slightly.

[Mopar1973Man]

6 hours ago, lcattin said:

 I put high end pads on the truck.  Will the cheaper pads run cooler?

Myself I use the cheapest pads I can get less metallics the better. I'm still running all OEM brake parts and did my first brake job at 185k. Exhaust brakes really do help a bunch.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[Nekkedbob]

I was a field service tech and drove my own vehicles and they usually made at least 300k before I sold them. I found that using the cheapest pads would not ruin the rotors and since I did this I only replaced one rotor on a truck that collapsed at 380k from rust. They might wear out a little faster but they are cheap and easy to change and they save you the price of turning or replacement  if you pay attention and don't let them get down to metal.

[Me78569]

Agree'd I run the cheapest of the cheap when it comes to pads.  I would rather have the $5 pads wear than the $100 rotor.

[Dieselfuture]

I get mine from local oreilly and get the medium stuff, it's life time waranty, depends on the idiot that you get when trying to waranty things out, but most of the time I don't have problems. Someone I know got a car and we put brakes one a while back, so far changed rotors once and pads 3 times, all under warranty. He probably put close to 150k on it so far. Quality definitely not like factory, original stuff seem to last close to 80-100k depends who drives it. If more people used brain when driving and owning a vehicle maybe they would see close to 200k out of parts like Mike. 

[lcattin]

I just picked up a new set of pads from my local Oreilly's tonight.  They are a good bunch of guys there and several are mechanics so I seem to get some good info. They told me tonight that the ceramic pads do not work well on the 1 ton trucks and definitely cause hot spots on the rotors. My rotors are not cheap.  It is 2wd and it has the large cast hub and rotor combo about $185 each so I don't want to tear them up.  I had another set of stiffer front shocks here and installed them.  Seems to have more front end stability now and not as much bounce when breaking.

I am going to try the new pads first and if I still feel the problem then I may have the one rotor that is running out .007" turned.

Hopefully I can put this to bed so I can get back on my Troopers head gasket project. I've never run across head bolts that were so hard to remove.

Thanks for the help guys.

[CSM]

Check your ball joints while you are in there.  That can cause odd brake wear.

[Mopar1973Man]

If it was me, I would turn both back to true. Then put the new pads in the calipers.

[CTcummins24V]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

If it was me, I would turn both back to true. Then put the new pads in the calipers.

Yup! I went trough 3 sets of pads and rotors on a chevy impala from warping, probably due to a stuck caliper. The whole front end shook when braking at high speeds. Each time a new set was installed the shaking disappeared, but would reappear after a couple months. 

We just did front pads and rotors on my cousins 06 f350, same symptoms, shaking when braking. Both front slide pins were rusted and the calipers weren't moving. We fixed that and the high speed shaking dramitcaly decreased, only to reveal another culprit, almost 1/4" of play on the driver's side ball joints.  

[KATOOM]

I have to say, this thread is quite refreshing.....  Usually when anyone starts discussing brakes the thread immediately reverts over to how all 2nd gen brakes are terrible and converting to 3rd gen brakes is the only logical option.   Not to mention those who try all the high dollar drilled and slotted and ceramic stuff too.

[Mopar1973Man]

2 hours ago, KATOOM said:

the thread immediately reverts over to how all 2nd gen brakes are terrible and converting to 3rd gen brakes is the only logical option.

 

Typically this is from the extra leverage forces of oversized tire. The brake can't over come the extra leverage forces so people start down the slippery slope of modification on brakes trying to improve stopping power for a wheel/tire combo that is too big now.

2 hours ago, KATOOM said:

Not to mention those who try all the high dollar drilled and slotted and ceramic stuff too.

 

Again I just shake my head to this stuff. Back to the oversized tires and leveraging forces on the brake rotors and pads. Then poor driving habits and tailgating where most people make the mistake so driving fast and stabbing the brakes hard in a panic constantly. So they assume ceramics and slotted rotors are going to help because race car use them. Sorry to say light weight race car vs. 8,000 to 9,000 pound truck is a world of difference. Then adding leverage forces of the over size tires and poor driving habits makes for a brake nightmare...

[01cummins4ever]

I would have to agree those ceramic pads are no good for heavy duty use. For the most part they will heat up and cause pre mature brake fading.  So for me I just throw a set of cheap brake pads every couple years and rotors are still in good shape. 

I tried the high end metallic pads, but quit using them do to scared up rotors.

 

[KATOOM]

I've heard good things about Hawk Performance pads.  But when mine need replacing, I'm sure I'll just be picking me up a set of cheap parts store pads.

[lcattin]

Great discussion on brakes.  Looks like I will have to get the rotor that is running out, trued back up.  I just need to find some place in my area that has a machine heavy enough to do the job.  Most places just have the lightweight machines and can't handle the larger hubs. 

[Nekkedbob]

On my 98 I had a rotor warp when I got to CA last year so I went around and asked if they had a in-the-vehicle brake machine. I eventually found one and they just pulled the tire and the caliper and  turned the rotor on the truck. I don't remember how much it was but it was worth it to me because I was camping and didn't have any way to press the studs out and then get it to them.

[KATOOM]

Not to convolute this whole conversation any more, but the best method for turning brake rotors is to do it "before" they've been used.  Essentially truing them up removing all the run out so that they wear smoothly.

When a rotor builds hot spots those isolated areas on the rotor from the heat will actually change metallurgy resulting in different resistance to wear.  That simply causes the rotors to wear unevenly over time and the pulsing warp can work its way back.

[IBMobile]

I found this article interesting about warped brake rotors.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

[Mopar1973Man]

Interesting article based from a racing point of view.