Longer cranking...

[notlimah]

Yea and that's what I thought the point of the JIC fittings were. To not have to rely on sealant to get a solid seal on the fitting. I think if I can't get it tightened up enough with the current fittings I'll just look at replacing them with new ones and see how that works out.

[leathermaneod]

Sometimes those JICs can be a bugger to get sealed, especially if they are steel vs brass. Im scared to ever take my big like off between my filter housing and vp44 after all the issues I had last time. At least I had Eric at Vulcan sending me new parts and and helping me get it worked out!

[notlimah]

Yea, I'm starting to think that the fittings might be the issue. When I originally installed everything I just put them to the recommended torque settings or just tight. But just now I was able to snug up the return and suction line a good bit.

 

I was thinking about your situation though with your BLK, just didn't want to bring up any bad memories hahah!

[leathermaneod]

Roflol! No big deal. I wouldn't be too quick to get new fittings though. Make sure they are good and tight...I had to get a bigger wrench for mine....don't forget those seals on the T too....

[notlimah]

Yea I'm really hoping it's just the fittings not being as tight as they should!

 

My theory is it could be fittings because I haven't had this issue since I initially tightened down the first fitting and I was driving the truck every day or every other day. This is the first time the truck sat for two days up hill without being run. So it seems like the fitting(s) might've gotten tighter but not enough to completely stop the leak indefinitely so maybe with a little extra tightening it'll clear the issue up long term.

[notlimah]

***Update***

 

Well started the truck up this morning after being parked overnight for 12+ hours uphill and still had longer cranking.

 

Things of note...

 

1. After a longer cranking start my fuel pressure seems to be slightly lower. Usually hovers around 16-16.5psi. Once I get moving things pressure gets up to the 17-17.5psi range which is what it's normally is at. On the days where it wouldn't have longer cranking times before starts, my fuel pressure would be right at 17-17.5psi right at the start. I'm wondering if my hard starts could be linked to my lift pump just not always getting a good initial prime after that first KEY ON and WTS time? Should I just try starting the truck without waiting for the WTS light to go out and try and start it on that initial fuel pressure bump?

 

2. I double checked the fittings at the VP (supply & return) and took apart one section of the T fitting.

 

 

This is what the current rubber grommet looks like (don't ask how I got this pic ), I'd say that's in pretty good shape and probably was replaced when the dealer put in the replacement VP. My guess though, is that when they were reinstalling that they never tightened it down enough and MAYBE that's what was causing the leak. I didn't have to take apart the other two fittings be I did attempt to snug them up. The top one was pretty snug but tightened down a little. The bottom one felt rock solid and I couldn't get it any tighter. I am going to go back and check the top and bottom one eventually but I need to get a 16mm stubby to make life easier. Anyways, we'll see about this theory. *fingers crossed*

 

3. I did notice that my fuel filter has some 'oily' residue on the side of the filter. You couldn't wipe it away with a rag, and it seemed as though it'd be on there for a while as it was practically stained on there.

 

This is after wiping it down with brake cleaner to see if it would pop up again, but you can see towards the top what it looked like before hand. Could a slightly loose filter cause a loss of prime? I already was keeping an eye on this filer since I got it with a slight dent on the bottom.

 

If anyone has any insight on any of these 3 theories of mine please chime in!

[Mopar1973Man]

 

Those are correct square cut o-rings. You can get replacements from Geno's IIRC.

[notlimah]

Yea I have three new ones I got from Geno's (I think they just started stocking them) but once I saw that that grommet was in good condition I figured I'd just try tightening it down a bit more to see if it just wasn't fully tight. I'll find out soon if that was it or if I'm going back in to replace all 3.

[notlimah]

Alright so still have longer crank times. Truck sat probably 18 hours and still had a tough time like before. I'll be going through and replacing all 3 grommets at the T and hopefully that will solve the problem.

 

Could this issue be caused by too much fuel being supplied to the VP while cranking? I can't remember if that actually affects starting or not.

[notlimah]

So I've been brain storming over other possible solutions to this problem.

 

One being the FASS creating too much pressure to the VP and that being the problem. Does that problem still exist on newer VP's?

 

The reason I ask is because I just let the truck sit almost 3 days. It fired up after cranking about 6-8 seconds. It had a small stumble/almost start then it cranked over and ran smooth as ever. It made me wonder though, if it were a leak, sitting for that long, I feel like I would've had more trouble starting it then I would after letting sit for a day or so. Even after a day it still cranks about the same time as it did this morning (after sitting almost 3) which makes me feel like maybe it's not a leak after all. If it were leaking then it would make the starting harder the longer it sat right?

 

I took a video of the start this morning and I'll do the same tomorrow morning to be able to compare the two and then I'll post it for you guys to critique.

 

Anyone have any other thoughts on this??

[dripley]

If your pump is run by the ECM pressure should not be a problem. When you are cranking on it whats you pressure gauge read. Mine is usually about half while cranking. About the only time you can tell this is when you have to crank on it for a few seconds. Mine usually starts so quick you cant get a read on the gauge. 

 

 I went thru this with my truck a while back. Out of the blue parked up hill for several hours and it took a few seconds to hit. The next time when it did not just bust off i let go of the key and let the pump run then hit it again and it fired right off. Only did this a few times at my brothers house on his steep driveway. then it stopped so I never found what was happening. A year or 2 prior to this I went thru the same thing only worse. I replaced the washers on the back of the head and the return tee grommets and problem solved until the little episode mentioned above.

[notlimah]

I have the pump setup exactly how FASS tells you to via the directions. OEM lift pump connects to the new FASS relay and goes back to the FASS pump.

 

I've replaced the washers to the banjo at the back of the head.

 

I have 3 new grommets sitting on my bench waiting to go in. I'm also going to replace the return banjo on the VP just because I have a new one and just want to eliminate that being a possible problem.

 

When you replaced the grommets at the fuel T, did you have to take off the lines to the back of the head and the return line from the VP? Or does it wiggle enough once unscrewed that you can slide on the new grommets?

[Mopar1973Man]

Cranking fuel pressure should be 7-12 PSI. Anything over that will cause hard starting typically. If your have trouble getting started try unplugging the FASS for start cycle and see if it goes away. If so this tells me your fuel pressure during cranking is too high and need to reduced the pressure. Watch the gauge closely if the gauge hangs low and then pops up quick then its a air bubble and loss of prime. If the gauge is just above 12 PSI while cranking just too high of fuel pressure.

[notlimah]

Here's a quick video. This was after I had already gone to 'key on' and was waiting for the WTS light to go out. Outside temp was in the 60's

 

 

[dripley]

Like Mike says next time it happens pull the fuse on the pump and see what happens. In the video it looked like it did not hit until the pressure got up around 13 or so psi.  It then looked to idle at only 16 psi.

[notlimah]

Yea I know my idle pressure is down a little bit. It used to idle at around 17-17.5 but I was messing with the connectors at the VP and now I can't get them 100% tightened down and have a tiny leak, so I can only imagine that's causing my lower fuel pressure.

 

One thing I didn't consider was if the fass was over pressuring the VP, wouldn't it happen every start? This only happens after sitting over night up hill.

 

Tomorrow morning I'll pull the fuse and see how it starts though.

[dripley]

I still think you have a little air leak somewhere, just my opinion. But unplugging the pump would help narrow it down. That pretty much what mine was doing at my brothers house.

 

As far as the return tee, as I remember there is enough play in the rubber lines to install the grommets with out removing any lines. The tough part is getting in there to do it.

[notlimah]

I'm still thinking air leak too.

 

If I pull the fuse, what should I expect? I know if it were over pressured it should fire right away. But if it is a leak it should have the trouble starting right? Except maybe a little longer since it won't have the lift pumps help?

[dripley]

If it busts right off maybe you found your problem. If it still hard starts then swap the grommets and see what happens. I saw the picture you posted of the return tee. Mine was wet when my problems started, yours looked fine in the picture. But it is easier for the air to get in than the fuel to get out,

 

Mine has been fine since replacing the sealing washers and grommets except for the maybe half dozen times in my brothers driveway. While it did bug me some I just let it go and for some reason it stopped. Now if I could have gotten her to fix her own brakes and ujoints, that would be special.

[Mopar1973Man]

I'd say air bubble or loss of prime that needle should snap right to pressure if primed.  Could you re-do the video but this time open the needle valve so there is not needle lag from it. This will tell you what you chasing. Air bubble or loss of prime will lag on building pressure our fuel pumps can't push air very well. Excessive cranking pressure above 12 PSI typically is more so problem on hot engine not so much cold.