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Quadzilla Adrenaline V2 Testing

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3 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

I'd like to mess more with UDC Pro on a VP truck, I just don't have access to one. It look like the VP is capable of nearly 2x the OEM fuel but it's hard to say what it will allow for. 

Nope,  %12 more. 

 

on a %100 stock truck the ecm will ask for a fueling command of ~3600 ( I think 3634 is the biggest I have seen) on the data stream to the vp44.  The data stream is a 12^2 message so the biggest possible fueling command you can have is 4095.  

 

here's stock

stock.PNG

 

Max fuel possible via Canbus tune ( ECM output) from the Smarty S03 tuner

s03.PNG

 

 

This is why we have wiretap in the 2nd gen world.  The Communication protocol that was build for the ECM to VP44 commands does not support a fueling command greater than the slot for 12^2 or 4095 in size.  The ecm may support bigger... but it can't  send any bigger.

 

 

 

 

The vp44 world is a sad sad place.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Me78569 said:

Nope,  %12 more. 

 

 

This is why we have wiretap in the 2nd gen world.  The Communication protocol that was build for the ECM to VP44 commands does not support a fueling command greater than the slot for 12^2 or 4095 in size.  The ecm may support bigger... but it can't  send any bigger.

 

 

 

 

The vp44 world is a sad sad place.

 

 

 

Well hell.....

 

The OEM duration table goes up to 240 mm3 but we only ask for 115-120mm3... I was hoping we could use all of that 240. 

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@AH64ID  

So question for how you handle making changes.  what process do you go through to make an adjustment to a tune?   I am not talking about in the software itself, but what thought process do you go through?   How do you recognize an issue or an area in the map that needs an adjustment?  How do you know if you have fixed what you set out to fix.  How many hours do you drive per change, on average, before moving on to another part of the map?

 

@mopar1973man has good questions in regards to how we should know if a .5* timing adjustment helps or hurts at a given point.  

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A lot of it is smoke driven. Often a greyish haze is seen around optimal timing/fuel when fueling heavily. This gives me an idea that I am nearing max timing and will adjust from there, usually a small retard in timing cleans it up nicely. Sounds is another big one, thou I am not sure how that applies to your noisy *** VP truck :-)

 

If it's not smoke or noise driven then it's usually trying to improve mileage or decrease WOT EGT's. 

 

I'll be honest, a lot of my tuning is done remote so I am looking at the data I talked about above. BTDC:ATDC, degree at which the injector closes, etc. 

 

When people I am tuning for ask for revisions I like to get load, rpms, boost/EGTs, rail pressure, etc.. Usually they are looking for more power or lower smoke. One thing I have found is that every truck smokes different, but most trucks are usually happy within a degree or so of each other, relatively speaking of course. 

 

For my personal tunes I sometimes go many many months without making any tweaks, especially major ones. I think I have only done a couple of tweaks in the last year or more, and most of them deal with the adjustment tables and not the main tables. Most of this year has been spent getting the pilot where I want it. Quiet combustion was my main goal at low rpms/loads. With UDC Pro and a ComMod I am able to adjust some tables on the fly (timing being the one I normally do). I've had 3 full tune flashes since March and before March I didn't do anything after August. For pilot tuning I have to do a full flash, not just a RT (real time temporary flash). Thou I don't recall the last time I tweaked anything in the empty zone of the tune, just towing. 

 

For the first time in well over a year I redid my timing tables with a big change. This last month I tried 2 different timing profiles in the 40-60% load range from 1600-2000 rpms. The tune pulled well, ran clean, and was fairly efficient, but I was hoping to pull a little better mileage while towing heavy. I made changes from 0.2°-1.5° in this area. What I noticed was a small reduction in EGT's, about 25-50° tops, no change in boost, but about a 10-15% increase in economy (high 9's to low 11's in similar loads/driving). I then went a little further and EGT's went up and boost down so I went back. I was happy enough I made an ECM file and flashed the tune. So now I'll do some additional towing and see. I've got some trips coming up that are repeats of last year with the old tune so I'll see what happens. 

 

Since I started custom tuning my truck in 2012 I bet I have 100 ECM flashes. A lot of them deal with becoming a better tuner, some deal with experimenting, some deal with hardware changes, and some deal with tuning software changes and table availability. It took 3 flashes to get my fuel gauge reading how I wanted it to, and it took one flash just to enable my 2nd WIF sensor. So not all of them are drive ability tweaks. I'm also picky and experimental. I want to know how small changes make effects so people I tune for get the best product. 

 

Sometimes I just want to see if I can do it better even if it's working better than expected, but I'm sure none of you in here have that issue :whistle:

 

 

In terms of ±0.5° being too much, I try to tune on the safer side of that. To me trying to get that final ±0.5° should be left for dyno tuning a race tune. Street/Towing tunes shouldn't be at that level of timing, IMHO

 

That being said playing with ±0.5° in the cruise profile isn't the same. You guys are seeing what happens with too much timing and the sluggish feel.  You may not feel that at WOT at 2800 rpms, but it's not a good thing. 

 

So, I guess spool, EGT's, boost, noise, exhaust color, smoke, etc should all be looked at in regard to non-cruise timing. It will take time if you're trying to get full optimization, but even that will change with elevation and seasons. 

Edited by AH64ID
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11 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

A lot of it is smoke driven. Often a greyish haze is seen around optimal timing/fuel when fueling heavily. This gives me an idea that I am nearing max timing and will adjust from there, usually a small retard in timing cleans it up nicely.

that is very intesting.  I noticed this when I upped my max timing from 26* to 29*   I now have a slight grey haze, but a much better pulling truck in the 2800+ rpm

 

 

So what I am getting is 

 

1. Smoke telling you whats happening

2. noise

3. datalogging and resulting fuel logs

 

I find it a VERY difficult and time consuming to nail down a change I would call " progress"

 

 

as for economy, my truck seems to be easy to please.  If I stick timing between 19-20* at 65 mph I get no less than 24 mpg.  as soon as I go more than 1-2* away from that mpg drops like a stone.

Edited by Me78569

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That's some pretty dang good mileage!

 

When I up my main timing in the cruise section too much I get a haze and don't like it. 

 

If you're getting the haze and pulling harder it's a good timing value, but about as much as I would run without strapping it to the dyno. 

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I am not complaining, nor do I understand it.  

 

I will say that if other tuners in the vp44 world, including the old Quadzilla tunes, aren't blowing heads off left and right / causing major issues, then there is very little risk of causing damage on a vp truck in the 2500+ rpm area as a result of too much timing.   I dont think the vp44 can give us enough true timing at the injector to cause damage in the 2.5k rpm + area.

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah they haven't appeared to have too many issues in the past, but don't want to find out the hard way :-)

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