Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest To Mopar1973Man.Com

    We are a Dodge Ram Cummins Turbo Diesel forum. We are very friendly and helpful group of Dodge Ram Cummins owners. We will try to keep your truck running the best we can and provide information for diagnostics, repairs and even guide you on the best replacement parts to use. 

     

    Registration is free. Registering on the site will provide access to many more things like...
     

    • Contribute to the Forum being able to ask questions and get support for your Dodge Ram Cummins.
    • Contribute to Article Database adding your ideas and suggestions.
    • Classified Ads posted by the members. Post up your used parts and vehicles.
    • Member Garage where you can proudly display your vehicles and modifications that you have done to them.
    • Download files, documents, and Quadzilla Adrenaline tunes for your truck.
    • 911 Support Network. We've got a group of members will to aid you if your truck breaks down on the road.
    • Reduced Advertisements displayed to you.

JPhauler87

Grossing 16-17k in the Northeast, should I expect more from truck?

Recommended Posts

When looking at the SW3 sample make sure you don't go quite as static on the timing in upper loads. 

 

I've tried similar with more timing in the middle but on UDC it got me slower boost response and more haze while towing, I think mostly due to the high pilot timing. My lowest timing at 2000 rpms is 3.5° but I only have 12° of pilot at that point (Stock pilot timing is 45° at the same fuel flow!). I also can't run that much timing on most trucks with 04.5-07 pistons or they haze really bad.

 

Stock pilot timing is at 57° for 2000 rpms and WOT

 

Looking at the stock timing table you can see why mileage drops off fast above 2000 rpms. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been continuing to add .5* of timing waiting to see some indication not to... and I'm now at 14* in my cruise region.

 

No knock or combustion rattle, probably a bit more injector tapping (remans)

Truck is still responsive and builds boost quickly at the cruising loads

Exhaust is clear, no haze

 

Rail pressure reads on my OBD app what I'd expect to see at those loads based on looking at the stock pressure map.

 

Up to 2000rpms going through the gears it seems I can here a little more 2nd gen-esque noise, but pretty faint.

 

Should I keep going until I see some sign I've gone too far? This is a lot more than I'd have expected to get away with!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 2nd gen noise, and likely the injector tapping noise, is timing rattle. 

 

What is your mileage doing? I'd expect its getting worse the more timing you add at this point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last full tank was 16.4mpg cruising my hilly commute at 65mph. First 1/4 of that tank was SW3, the rest was UDC starting at 9* and adding .5* every 100 miles or so.

 

Best ever mileage (17mpg) was achieved on this same route, but middle of summer.

 

Is there any harm in running it as-is to see how it does?

 

I have noticed SW1-9 sample tunes all have the same cruise timing profile, and really, the biggest differences are at the high loads and rpms. I read a thread over on Smarty Resource with Brian saying he gained like 3mpg grossing 20k lb running SW7 vs stock tune. Looking at all the timing profiles, I am curious how he achieved such a large gain given where I'd expect the truck to run when towing, even with an optimized rail map.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The samples are just that, samples. They really aren't how the actual tunes look. Prime example is that SW1-5 all use the same, stock, duration table, but there are differences in the limiters but the samples all show different duration tables. 

 

There probably isn't any harm as long as you drop the timing by 45mm3. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. Had to go reread some old posts to correlate what 45mm3 would mean with weird duration labels, but I see now that’s about 32% load.

 

Other than using the calculator as a guide, listening for rattle, and watching for a haze, what can I do to make sure I am at safe but efficient timing values in that 30-50% load range for towing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Heading out for the first wheeling trip of the year today. ~900 miles. Truck and trailer came to work with me today and leaving right from here.

 

I'm not sure if it is the turbo or the tune - probably both - but I am feeling an improvement equal to or greater than what I felt going from stock tune to Jr. It feels much more comfortable cruising and soaking up medium sized rolling hills at 65-70mph now.

 

Question on EGTs. I am really regretting letting my GF borrow my laptop for a few days because I can't show a screenshot of the timing map I'm running. My cruise region 30-60% load timing is very similar to the UDC Jr sample tune you posted over on CompD (AH) and maybe a hair higher in some areas. In the higher RPM, higher load areas (5th gear grade climbing) it runs very close and just under the SW3 Jr sample tune and is also more gradual getting there (I think your advice was 'less static').

 

On medium hills at 70mph and ~60-80% load, I am seeing 1000-1100* and 25-30lb of boost. 4th and 5th gear steep on ramp at the same 85% load to about 2700rpm and I'm getting to 1250-1300 by the time I shift, so only briefly seeing that.

 

Again... really wish I could post a screenshot, but the lower EGTs in the 60-80% area has me a hair concerned and wondering if I should revert back to SW3 for the trip. There is one area I hear some timing/injector rattle while running through the gears at higher loads that I haven't identified yet but it is very brief so I am not too concerned there. Mostly concerned about 5th gear sustained 1200-1300* based on SW3 sample high RPM/load and 1000-1100* letting cruise control do work cruising smaller hills on the highway.

Edited by JPhauler87

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

How does your fuel map compare to SW3 sample? Or Stock?

 

Haven't touched duration and still using Jr so no pressure, either. Timing as described, maxed out WG map, little more aggressive torque management than SW3 for smoother operation is all I have done.

Edited by JPhauler87

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trying to avoid turning my pistons into puddles of aluminum! Long trip and first time operating my UDC tune in the higher load area of the map where I suspect bad things are more likely to happen, if they are going to happen.

 

I suspect that my changes are not drastic enough to really cause that to happen, and I do not drive aggressively. Mostly looking for a sanity check, I think you've given me one. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ended up averaging about 9.8mpg on that trip holding 70mph on all but the largest grades.

 

Shorter NH trip with the trailer a few weeks ago netted 10.7mpg traveling at 65mph.

 

I got a VIN locked SSR for a song and paid to get it unlocked. So, I have been playing with rail pressure now. I should take some screenshots, but I basically have it increasing with load and RPM pretty steadily with a dip in the 0-37% 1800-2200 load area to try to work on unloaded economy. (Sold Jr and am <$600 into everything tuning related now.)

 

Duration is still 100% stock.

 

Was around 14.5k psi in the unloaded highway cruise area with 11* and could hear a very faint rattle. Best I was doing with the more aggressive timing was ~16.5mpg. I have been driving it everyday the last week or so and netted a solid 18mpg on a 470 mile tank. Best ever so far with for this truck. Fingers crossed it's repeatable.

 

Last night I lowered the rail pressure to about 13.5k psi in the cruise area with about 10* max timing. Still the faintest rattle cruising, but EGTs seemed to be a hair lower and the lie-o-meter was reading 22mpg by the time I was to work and it has been pretty consistently 2mpg optimistic since I uploaded the first tune on my Jr a while ago. Too soon to tell though.

 

All my unloaded highway driving is moderately hilly with cruise at 65mph.

 

The rest of the timing map is now verbatim what came out of the timing calculator except where I bumped it ~1* in the highway cruise region. The next time I am hooked up to my trailer I will be keeping an eye on how it acts in the mid load range where it cruises with the trailer. I think I was around 5-6* there coming right off the calculator. For the upper RPM and load areas I guess I am seeing very little reason for aggressive timing there since that is not a place I spend much time. And when I am there, I just want the piece of mind that I can be there without worrying about cylinder temps. I may experiment with dropping the rail pressure in the trailer cruise region to see if it helps as much there as it seems to have helped elsewhere in the map.

 

I was initially intrigued by using the SSR to turn off the pre-injection, but I am not sure that will be worth the trouble. Maybe if I find myself with some time to play with it I will experiment, but doesn't sound like it is a very well developed feature.

 

Rear pinion seal has been leaking since halfway to Utah, finally dealing with that this weekend. Have been getting a really annoying shutter on take off since I owned the truck. Cured it by shimming the carrier bearing... then hooked my trailer and found it was worse. Bah! I think I'm going to be saving my pennies for a one piece alum unit. ($$$)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×