02 47RE to NV4500 Conversion

[Cwhatevr02]

Hi there,,,I'm a newbie,retired GM technician and frustrated Dodge lover. Recently I did the "easy" conversion from auto 47RE to a brand new NV4500 with upgraded Southbend clutch. My truck is a 2002 2500 4X4 SRW 24V with 110K miles,FASS150,RV275 injectors,Fleece Cheetah turbo,Banks air and intake. The conversion went relatively smooth besides some minor electrical glitches. I used all new hard parts along with a new PCM for a manual truck with my VIN programmed to it and Smarty programmed the ECM. It might be relevant to say that I had replaced my APPS unit ($Mopar) several months prior to doing the conversion because of failure codes,no pedal issues. Now,,,,,The conversion is 99% done and I love it but,,,I am left with a " Steady" cruise light on and a surge/hesitation at steady low rpm speeds. I have 2 new batteries,very clean cables and have triple checked all of the grounds. I don't see any voltage spikes from the APPS with my scanner while duplicating issue. Do I ultimately need to replace my ECM and engine wiring harness or am I missing something???,,,Please help,,,lol Thanks Y'all 

[dripley]

Welcome to the site. Glad your install went well. I have had the steady light problem on a rebuilt ECM several years ago. The light stayed on but the cruise did not work. That did fail completely later and a reman from Cummins fixed it. I am not telling that is your problem and replace it, just relaying my experience. There are others here more knowledgeable of such things than me. ECM's are tricky to diagnose. Have you spoken to Smarty about the issue with the cruise?

 The $Mopar apps sucks price wise. Especially when all you need is the sensor and not the bell crank it comes on. Did you let the ECM re learn the apps after install? After reconnecting the batteries you just turn the key on, slowly depress the throttle and slowly release. Turn the key off and your done. Might be your surging issue. 

 Again, welcome and some more electronically inclined folks should be along.

[Cwhatevr02]

Yep,,,did the apps relearn and several different programs from Bob at Smarty. Same thing as you,light on (stays on) and doesn't work. I swear it feels just like my 99.5 with auto did using cruise with bad apps but I see nothing out of range. Thanks dripley 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Cwhatevr02

[dripley]

I wonder if it might have something to do with the 02 auto truck having the vacuum assisted cruise versus the 02 manual being fly by wire. Which system are you using now?

[Mopar1973Man]

Both PCM and ECM would have to be change to for manual with fly by wire cruise. Being the PCM is the cruise control module and the ECM is getting the throttle from the PCM not the APPS. So the software of both modules have to match.

[Cwhatevr02]

Holy crap,,,y'all are correct. Did some research on the cruise control differences (like I should have) and there it is. Getting a new ECM and hopefully I won't need to change the ECM wiring harness as well. Fingers crossed all will be well soon. Just need to disable the cruise for now I guess. Thanks for the help

[Mopar1973Man]

This is the same reason I will not do a p7100 pump conversion being fly by wire cruise would be ruined.

[Cwhatevr02]

I am soooooo deeply invested in this thing. I'm trying my hardest to make it right,,,at the risk of losing my mind. So now I'm just wondering what I'll ultimately need to complete this conversion and move on with more fun stuff. 

[Dieselfuture]

Ha, most of us are, it pays off at the end though, till something else decides not to work. Part of life I guess, you quit learning when you die. This site is the best for a lot of reasons in my opinion. We all go through ups and downs.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Usually best to have thew entire donor truck present so you can raid any parts, wiring, or modules as required. 

[Cwhatevr02]

Replaced all the battery cables,,,Reworked all the grounds and swapped out the PCM wiring harness from a manual. Found the clutch safety switch factory plug under the dash with a factory dummy plug. Removed all of the vacuum cruise control pieces/parts and now the cruise works awesome. I am however still fighting a problem with 2 bad ECM's,,,my auto ECM has had it's glitches but works (kinda) with the Smarty programming. I have been sent a couple bad ECM's from an online source but they keep blaming whatever crap they drop on morons. I have been told that there are specific manual ECM's that are built better than some,,,years (01-02?)  Anyone have a known good part number for one of these "better" ECM's??? Thanks y'all 

[jlbayes]

The ecms are not specific. The programming is the difference. OEM part number for 98.5-02 is R5083997AA. I just went through all and checked the supersedence LOL

Edited January 30, 2017 by jlbayes

[Cwhatevr02]

Sooo,,,Truck failed smog today at work. Actually it didn't fail it just didn't pass. 2 smog machines at 2 different facilities could not communicate with the truck through the OBD access. I have zero failure codes and can pull data from each module with the Snap-On Motis scanner. The PCM is new with California emissions software and I did install a new/used PCM wiring harness from a manual truck supposedly for California emissions ( p/n #56045904AC). Spoke with the shop foreman at the Dodge dealer down the street and they only program modules with VIN and OE equipment,,,Just like every other dealer out there. Tried several recovery software files sent by Smarty for the ECM because a couple smog techs have had success smogging after reflash. I'm about to duck tail and start thinking about getting the auto back in and wash my hands,,,anyone heard of this madness after swaps or have any info???,,,I love my NV4500 but I need my sanity back,,,and my daily driver,,,lol Thanks Y'all!!!

[Dieselfuture]

I sure hope rest of US does not pass laws that exist in California, other than that I think you have a good truck. These bastards keep on taking things that we love.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Dieselfuture

[BBHD]

What about 1/2 power with the Smarty?

[NightHawk]

6 hours ago, Cwhatevr02 said:

Sooo,,,Truck failed smog today at work. Actually it didn't fail it just didn't pass. 2 smog machines at 2 different facilities could not communicate with the truck through the OBD access. I have zero failure codes and can pull data from each module with the Snap-On Motis scanner. The PCM is new with California emissions software and I did install a new/used PCM wiring harness from a manual truck supposedly for California emissions ( p/n #56045904AC). Spoke with the shop foreman at the Dodge dealer down the street and they only program modules with VIN and OE equipment,,,Just like every other dealer out there. Tried several recovery software files sent by Smarty for the ECM because a couple smog techs have had success smogging after reflash. I'm about to duck tail and start thinking about getting the auto back in and wash my hands,,,anyone heard of this madness after swaps or have any info???,,,I love my NV4500 but I need my sanity back,,,and my daily driver,,,lol Thanks Y'all!!!

 

What does the bold mean and what codes did you have after the swap?  The PCM shouldn't have any emissions software as that is part of the ECM and the part number on the PCM is the flash code for what options/items you have on your truck (aka what version).

 

I did the swap and knock on wood, haven't had any of the issues you describe and have roughly 1500 miles on it now.  The only issues I have as of now are PCM codes as i still have any auto PCM but I only ever had PCM codes even when running an auto tune ECM post swap. In fact, the only difference between the auto tune and manual I noticed was throttle response due to the removal of TQ Management below the mph threshold.   

 

Honestly, sounds like the OBD II harness has an issue and when installing different harnesses prior to resolving past issues code be part of the problem.  The ECM & PCM act independently while communicating together so you should reverse your changes until you find a starting point where there is communication to the ECM via the OBD II port.  Please elaborate on the second bold item as the error will help with understanding what is occurring since the smog computer is a search, as/answer type of program regarding overall ECM/PCM & vehicle health regarding codes.  

Edited January 31, 2017 by NightHawk

[JAG1]

Every time I have had a problem that seemingly reaches a block wall with the Gov't. I find out who the supervisor is. If he/ she cannot help me I find out who their supervisor is and keep going until I find someone that can make decisions. I don't know if it would work but I have done this several times and found good people that can understand a situation that doesn't fit in the maze of beauracracy.

[Cwhatevr02]

Sorry NightHawk,,,none of that was supposed to be in bold type,new windows 10 computer and still learning. The only time I had trouble codes were with the auto PCM still in the truck. After PCM replacement all codes went away (trans codes,,,speed/temp/overdrive). The PCM harness fixed my cruise control to manual fly by wire instead of vacuum operated. We can communicate with all modules with scanners but the smog machine will not recognize the truck. After installing the smog machine OBDII wireless transmitters the truck locked up the first smog machine. 2 more attempts yielded a message on both smog machines used that said,,," Invalid data was received from the vehicle",,,second line on smog machine says " If you wish to retry communication,cycle the vehicle's engine off and then restart vehicle". My only issues with the truck prior to swap were poor battery cables/bad grounds,apps failure and intermittent power surge while using cruise control at steady speeds. All of which i'm pretty sure were related to bad cables/grounds.     

[NightHawk]

I would take the following steps if i was in your shoes.

 

1. Check the alternator for excessive noise and replace if out of spec. The symptoms you describe point to this as a possible issue.

 

2. Take truck to dealer and see if they can communicate and possibly offer a flash update for the truck as a whole. Tell them of the smog machine lockups. Do not tell them its a conversion upfront and if they ask tell them its been that way for awhile.

 

3. If cleared by the dealership service go back for smog at either a registered station or smog referee and don't tell them about the conversion at the regular. At the referee dont say anything until face to face as they will know of the incomplete previous test.  However before going to the referee all mods must be removed and put some miles on it in stock form. 

Edited January 31, 2017 by NightHawk

[jlbayes]

So you are likely only communicating with the modules on one of the bus networks. There are two ccd and sci. You need to find out which the snap on tool is talking on. 

Edited January 31, 2017 by jlbayes