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Gents and ladies,

This is my first post on any forum ever but I figured mopar mans forum would be the best. I'm really stuck on what's happening with my truck and it's so annoying because I just got it running beautifully not too long ago. I will start off with some back ground of the truck and the problem.

 

Its a 2001 with about 210k miles, 2wd, automatic trans, bhaf air filter, 4 inch straight pipe, and until recently (I took it off thinking maybe it was causing my issues) an old quadzilla adrenaline that replaced my super chips (I say old because it is one of the first boxes made and I got it used, had the big power resistor replaced, then tested at quadzilla and verified). Now the problem started about a week ago when I noticed that my rpms were kind of bouncing around at 1000 when coming to a stop from higher speeds. I would be doing about 50 and then let off the accelerator pedal, apply brakes, and once in maybe 2nd gear the rpms kind of bounced at 1000 and you could hear it in the engine. They would then return to about 750 once below say 10 mph. This happened for 2 days and on the second day I arrived home and placed the truck in park and noticed it was idling at 1000 rpms. I also noticed a very random, intermittent spike in the rpms as it sat there idling and could hear it in the engine. I'm not sure what a miss sounds like but that's my best guess. This is when I removed my adrenaline. The next day the problems persisted and I noticed that the truck was running rougher than usual. I hooked up my scan gauge 2 and saw that my tps was at 1 and was spiking to about 12 at all times. Once above 12 or so it would stop spiking. As a quick fix attempt I turned down my timbo apps until the rpms sounded about normal and then reset/calibrated the apps. The tps is still stuck on 1 and spiking to around 12 randomly.

 

I recently replaced my iat sensor (not with a CUMMINS part) as it was faulty and was causing dead pedal issues so I unplugged that thinking the cheap sensor I bought was causing it. No luck. I then unplugged my map sensor as I've read many times that this cause rough idling. No luck. It has also been cleaned recently and seems to be functioning properly per my scan gauge. Since readjusting my apps the rpms have come down a little but are still high in park and neutral only(goes to normal when in drive). The only other information I could see worthy to include is that when I had the quad on I didn't tap the pump wire so I only had levels 0-2. When driving with it on 2 or 1 I noticed what seemed to be the tc locking and unlocking and it got more noticeable as the levels increased from 0-2(can't really feel it with it on 1). I assumed this was because it is an old box but idk that it could have been creating additional ac noise? 

 

I havent been been able to do any troubleshooting but when I get time this weekend I will be first checking the alternator for excess noise (even though it's fairly new) and then testing the entire apps harness per instructions found on this site. The only other thing I can think to check is the camshaft position sensor. Any thoughts? I have no codes being thrown and no dash lights illuminated. 

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and I really want/need to get this thing fixed. She's the love of my life.

 

forgot to add that I also have a raptor 100 and gauges, though glowshift. Fuel pressure has always been 18 at idle and 16 at wot. It seems to be a little lower now from what I assume is because the truck is idling higher. It sits closer to 17 idling in park.

Edited by CumminsHokie

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First off, God Bless you for paragraphs!  

 

You mention dead pedal, and some odd behavior with idle.  You've done most of the work.  You've even mentioned codes.  

 

I am inclined to wonder if the APPS needs replaced.  Is there a link with the APPS?  Meaning, with the info you gave us, is it running roughly above the 12% that you  show as spiking? 

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Welcome to the greatest cummins site ever.

Sounds like you're on the right track checking the alternator. I'm not sure if your scan gauge can monitor your apps, or you can use a Multimeter and check resistance and make sure there is no dead spots. I don't believe it's a good thing unplugging sensors and leaving them unplugged, not only you should get an ecl light but you're breaking the 5-volt loop. 

I believe your old quad as you say, is capable of being a new badass quad. Just get a quad BT for Android device if that's what you have and flush new software to it from this site. You'll be able to monitor a lot of things, apps included, and get lots more power without wiretap. I believe someone like @Me78569 will be able to help most on your issue, as he knows how to debug and rewire a grumpy woman's brain. Not calling your truck a woman or anything just a reference, no offense to anyone.

56bb1bfb55664f4408aa8ce8b5bcb301.jpg

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does your Quadzilla have a screen or just the pod?  

 

 

I would connect itback again and use it to watch the tps etc if possible  It has a much faster sample rate

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11 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

does your Quadzilla have a screen or just the pod?  

 

 

I would connect itback again and use it to watch the tps etc if possible  It has a much faster sample rate

Unfortunately it just has the pod. Ive been brainstorming ways of monitoring the tps but i cannot think of a secure way that doesnt involve wire tapping the harness on the apps side. Which isnt a huge deal i just would like to avoid it if possible.

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Well it is important to know what the ECM is seeing for values.  I would buy a live data tool like a cheap elm327 device or a obdlink mx device.   

 

This will help troubleshoot your issues.  

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22 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Well it is important to know what the ECM is seeing for values.  I would buy a live data tool like a cheap elm327 device or a obdlink mx device.   

 

This will help troubleshoot your issues.  

Just ordered a BAFX OBD2 bluetooth scan tool and it will be here tomorrow. It had good reviews and seems like it is somewhere in the middle of the two that you suggested, quality wise. I will download torque pro unless you all suggest a better alternative. 

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I have experienced that weird idle you have in the past. Never figured it out. It has for the most part stopped but every once in awhile it will do it. As far as that blip in throttle percentage mine does, sits on 0% and blips randomly to 10%. From talking to others here it seems to be inherent to the scan gauge. The blip also disappears once I get over 10% throttle. I think you are seeing 12% since you are stuck on 1%. Good luck with your problem and I look forward to seeing what you find. And welcome to farm here. 

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3 hours ago, dripley said:

I have experienced that weird idle you have in the past. Never figured it out. It has for the most part stopped but every once in awhile it will do it. As far as that blip in throttle percentage mine does, sits on 0% and blips randomly to 10%. From talking to others here it seems to be inherent to the scan gauge. The blip also disappears once I get over 10% throttle. I think you are seeing 12% since you are stuck on 1%. Good luck with your problem and I look forward to seeing what you find. And welcome to farm here. 

Thanks for the optimism dripley! I was actually just monitoring it again and it seems to have jumped up to 17% not that that matters I don't think. I wondered if it was just a scan gauge thing. I'm excited to get the obd2 reader and see what I can find.

 

also just an FYI since I assume we are all cummins fans here. That haul truck in my picture has a cummins QSK60 16 cylinder diesel that outputs about 11 times what our trucks do stock, hp wise. That thing is the Maserati of the haul truck world.

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So I get my obd2 reader all hooked up and start my truck and the first thing I see is that my throttle position is stuck at about 17% (fluctuating above and below 17). I'm using torque pro btw. Interesting that 17 is what my scan gauge was spikeing to when at idle. So now my question is what is that 17% is it what the ecm is requesting or what's being requested of it?

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so would it be safe to assume my apps is the culprit? i was just looking at it and I noticed that the PO added a wire from the apps harness to the negative terminal of the battery. I'm not sure what wire it's connected to as it's pretty crapily covered in electrical tape but any ideas what he was trying to do there? Makeshift Apps noise isolator? 

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I would guess the PO tried to adjust hte apps to get rid of TC lockup issues.  

 

I would check for AC noise first and foremost.

 

Return wiring back to stock

 

Then replace the apps as you have no idea what the PO did to it.

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I replaced the apps about 6 months ago when chasing down a dead pedal issue. 

 

The wire is on the "truck" side of the harness, meaning the main harness side.

 

I will check for ac noise and report back.

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Ac voltage read at the alt was 0.03 v with the truck almost at op temp. The grid heater was kicking on and it'd ramp the ac noise up to over 0.1 v is that normal? I've got 14.16 v Dc coming off the alt and 14.11 v measured at driver side battery. 

 

I installed a timbo apps.

 

i revved the rpms a little and then the truck started idling very rough. Here's a video

IMG_1073.MOV

I also think I just found an actual ac noise filter. It's a wire going from a ground to the pcm?(passenger side computer) and the wire has components in the middle. I think it's a bd noise isolator.

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.1v is a fail    .03v idle is border line.

 

that's a noise filter, pull that bad boy off and put it in it's rightful home, the trash.

 

Did you adjust your timbo apps?

 

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Okay a few questions.

 

1.) what would cause my apps voltage at idle to randomly increase to .93?

 

2.) should I look into replacing my alternator soon if the ac reading was 0.1 volts while the grid heater was cycling? And because I read 0.03 v at 160* coolant temp. 

 

3.) what's to say my tc won't start locking and unlocking really badly when I pull off the noise isolator?

 

as for the ground wire added into the apps sensor by the PO, the harness is pretty jacked up, I'm going to try and borrow a Deutsch kit from work and remake that's plug.

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Roger that, I've got batteries disconnected now, gonna do a reset and then check the voltage again. It still seems to be idling a little high and rough but definitely better. I just cleaned all of my grounds while I had the free time.

 

so should I be in the market for a new alternator? Any suggestions? I'd like to up the amperage output a little if possible without spending way too much money

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33 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

2. @Mopar1973Man whats the load ac limit?

0.01 to 0.03 is normal

0.05 is marginal

0.1 is a fail

 

43 minutes ago, CumminsHokie said:

3.) what's to say my tc won't start locking and unlocking really badly when I pull off the noise isolator?

Because your alternator is producing too much AC noise. Take the alternator off and have it tested.

 

44 minutes ago, CumminsHokie said:

1.) what would cause my apps voltage at idle to randomly increase to .93?

Idle voltage doesn't matter. What matter that the ECM sees the IVS (Idle Validation Switch) grounded for idle. Idle voltage won't matter as long as the IVS switch for idle is selected. Then its strictly up to the ECM to control idle.

4 minutes ago, CumminsHokie said:

I just cleaned all of my grounds while I had the free time.

 

Too many clean the wrong grounds...

 

6 minutes ago, CumminsHokie said:

I just cleaned all of my grounds while I had the free time.

 

Too many clean the wrong grounds...

If you want to test the APPS for that problem just unplug it. ECM will use only idle software.

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I cleaned my battery terminals as a part of cleaning all the grounds. Is that enough to satisfy g115 or should I get spray the plugs with contact cleaner?

 

im glad I joined this forum and I really appreciate all of the help! 

@Mopar1973Man you've done a write up on testing all of the apps connections haven't you?

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5 minutes ago, CumminsHokie said:

Is that enough to satisfy g115 or should I get spray the plugs with contact cleaner?

I would use some dielectric grease in the plug and cycle them 3 times. That's it. 

 

6 minutes ago, CumminsHokie said:

@Mopar1973Man you've done a write up on testing all of the apps connections haven't you?

This isn't exactly but it should give you so info...

 

timbo1.jpg

apps.jpg

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I think I was thinking of testing the idle validation switches. I reread that article and now it doesn't seem as applicable.

 

Anyone have any suggestions on a good alternator? Or is it more along the lines of just don't buy a reman?

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