VP44 PSG5 limitations read/write

[rogerash0]

As in it's coolant? They said they do all the checks on the head to ensure it's not cracked. I have noticed my radiator hose seem to stay pressurized for a long *** time. Like overnight. I have mishimoto radiator and cap.

[Dieselfuture]

If you're not using coolant then probably not, I was just thinking out loud. I know sometimes when there is a crack someplace then it would do odd stuff cold vs hot etc. Reserch white smoke in diesel and see what can cause it. Like air in fuel, water in fuel, timing maybe. 

[jlbayes]

When I blew up my hy35 it white smoked like a mofo. Dumped all kinds of oil in the exhaust. Not saying that is what you have going on but it was weird to me the smoke was white vs. blue.

[rogerash0]

Jl - My S475 had oil around the compressor wheel inlet housing, and the 62mm had oil coked up around the wheel. The 5 bolts on the WG housing were weeping oil, that's what led me on. I bought another s475, that's when I got the 1.32 housing. The "weepy" s475 sits on the garage floor to date. Assuming it's weepy. I don't know  how the heck it got screwed up so fast. I think it could  have pulled oil  from the air filter but  I recall it was blacm. Then the 62mm also felt like it had more play in the comp wheel than before, when it was new, more then I think it should have, more than 1-3 thou. But I'm not a machinest. Reason why I suspect the 62 is good after all is that it works well from what I can tell, the oil is no  longer dripping from the WG housing or appearing fresh at the comp wheel, and the wheel isn't hitting the housing.

 

I now run stock timing to reduce smoke and give the truck better manners. Also to save crank bearings some and pickup a few more psi of boost. Mostly to reduce smoke in the bottom end, and have a much smoother driving truck. 

 

One day I had a big puff of white smoke come out the back, and I know that's not normal. Perhaps that was the start to my white smoke dellimma. I was just driving 30ish mph down a road I drive everyday.

Edited August 16, 2017 by rogerash0

[jlbayes]

Well if you are/were passing oil from the valve seals it could be the source of the white smoke. What I was kind of alluding to. Any s400 I've had have been loose af. But no signs of oil passing.

[Mopar1973Man]

20 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

On the back of the alt, one post gives me 7.53-7.59v AC, the other gives .061v-.065v.

 

The alternator is shot. Replace... Anything over 0.1 AC volts at the BATT stud is an instant fail.

 

Double check your electrical system for any ground modifications or noise filters added at the PCM. Remove all modifications and return the electrical back to factory layout and remove any addon's. This will make the noise easier to detect all the other modification mask or hide the issue making it tougher to test for or detect the issue. 

[rogerash0]

I think I have a filter added to the harness by the PCM. I'll get you a pic. It doesnt look stock to me, but its wrapped up in the harness. The alt has two very small posts that can put it in a full field effect, and the big post with the battery cable coming off of it. The big post with the batt cable coming off of it is where I measured 0.015vac. It's a "brand new" duralast alternator, been on the truck maybe 2 months. After going thru 1 reman Napa alt, and 1 brand new Napa Bosch alt, they quit helping me out. I got a third alternator from them, and its in the garage, and its a reman, but Im running the duralast right now. Im basically keeping the Napa reman as a spare in the garage, I had that many problems.

 

JL - Im beyond confident the valve seals are the source of the white smoke.. I see what you mean now by why isnt it blue. The ports all being wet in the exhaust mani shows it coming from the valve guides. Why my new oem seals took a crap like the first set is beyond me. The guys at Rocky Mountain Cummins say if those metal rings from the valve seals drop down to the pan, and the oil pickup sucks em up, it'll seize the oil pump right away. So here's to hoping the debris stays in the top of the head. I couldnt find any of the rings even with a magnet. The oil is so darn dark and deep throughout the head.

[Mopar1973Man]

15 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

The guys at Rocky Mountain Cummins say if those metal rings from the valve seals drop down to the pan, and the oil pickup sucks em up, it'll seize the oil pump right away.

 

Where are you located at could you fill out your profile? Rocky Mountain Cummins is in Boise ID. I'll be in Ontario, OR all this week. If you want to get together.

[jlbayes]

What cam in in that thing? 

[rogerash0]

I'd love to get together Moparman, Im sure I could pick your brain about a million things. I'm in Great Falls, MT unfortunately. ID is way nicer, I just recently drove through on the way down to Vegas not that long ago. 

 

JL, it's got a Hamilton 182/214 cast cam. I cant say that the motor really drops my jaw to the floor, even with all the mods. Sometimes I think my chargers are too small for the flow that the Stg 2 head can move, or what the Stg 2 is optimized for if you will. They sold me on it saying spool up will be improved further more, but I have a hard time believing spool up is any better. Now if I was running some big *** chargers I could believe it, but with these tow chargers, I think the stock manifold may run just as good or better, save a ton of coin, and likely not be nearly as prone to leaks.

 

Today I finally got my wastegate set to crack just-a-tad-more-than-slightly at 20 psi, by 30 psi its half open, and 40 PSI its full open. It definitely felt better. I had to put two nuts on the actuator arm to set it properly, it only came with one on there, which really threw me off for a long time. Its no longer audibly slamming open /w 40-45 psi compressed air, and its definitely closed with 0psi going to it. The mid-range did feel good, torque feels up. I didnt get to test drive it enough to see if my big charger was still putting out 1/2 the PSI of total boost, but I know previously it was. When I say 1/2 the total boost, it was within 1-2psi.

 

I still wanna take a pic of a white circular thing that I think is a capacitor that someone wired in, up by the PCM.

[jlbayes]

To me it sounds like they didn't check for clearance with the retainers and valve seals. You're not feeling the power you feel you should have as you are fuel limited with the little injectors (both sets). If you are anywhere near Michigan come on by and I'll throw my 6x.018s in it. lol. You do not make hp with engine parts on these things. Especially with a little stock vp. A hrvp will make no more power either.

[rogerash0]

In Nov Im coming down thru Rogers, MN and Indianapolis to see two old best friends from when I was a kid. On my way over from MT to VA. I'll have the 30' trailer tho with all my belongings in tho, so probably not best to throw the 6.018s in there. Arent those roughly 200hp injectors? That's what I originally spec'd out for this truck, to meet my power goal, but two were not popping at the right pressure, so the truck was knocking on fuel and dumping white smoke like a holy mother. It took a shot of carb cleaner to start, from the guy who put the motor in. Another guy told me only do a shot of carb cleaner with a shot of WD40 for lube. I thought carb cleaner should never, ever be used. After that problem I had them put 120hp tips on -- perhaps a knee jerk reaction. But with how smokey the 120's have been for me in the past, I couldnt imagine 200's. Now that I have the leaks solved a ton more I need to get them in. Im not sure if towing will be really good with them though. I hate to put them in now to test, take them out to tow to VA, then at sea level and no need to tow heavy again, put them back in again. There's a good chance I'll do that though. Gotta put in the work and the hours to learn how everything gets along and runs.

 

So you're saying the only way to make the power Im expecting is big injectors? I thought they would need a strong pump behind them to be effective. Im guessing you'll fire back with "yeah, a p7100".

 

If I was to daily drive a set of big injectors for the power I was expecting, I assume it would need something more like a 64 & a S480 minimum to give them the air they need to burn. Sometimes I wonder how much worse the spoolup would really be, ie. I wonder if it would be marginal, and then burn clean like it does now when the chargers are properly lit.

 

Im curious how the retainer would drop down low enough to wipe out the valve seal. Also, how do you even set clearance for that, I would clearance would be depicted via valve stem length and/or the spring's height whilst compressed.

[jlbayes]

No these would be a 500+hp injector for most of the crap builders use to estimate a hp range.

 

The ddps you have should not be compared to anything other than edge jammers. DDP uses wide cone marine nozzles that are known to be smokey.

 

Actually a set of 6x.013s or 7x.014s would get you close to what you want power wise.

 

Smoke is going to be an issue with the tuning you are going to run.

 

And no on the 64/80 compounds. Your turbos will go a long way. Much further than they are given credit for.

 

You stock vp can support over 700whp. More with nitrous but that is another topic all together.

[rogerash0]

Well, I like what your telling me about the VP and the turbos being capable. I was starting to wonder if I had the recipe all wrong.

 

Am I tracking correctly to say to fix my tuning and run optimal injectors for the smoke and power I'm after it would be the iquad and F1 or the other places you mentioned 6x.013's? I think those are roughly "150hp" injectors. Forgive me for not really knowing the injector size's (inch measurement? ) fueling / power / smoke.

 

That's a real shame to hear the DDPs are crap. I really felt like they were spraying out of the bowl andor with huge droplets / low atomization because of their total $hit performance / smoke show. Luggy, slow to spool, smokey, etc.

[jlbayes]

To make you feel a bit better about capabilities of the vp I had a stock pump on the green truck in my profile picture and managed 650whp out of it. Stock head, cam etc.

 

You are. The edge is smokey mess with anything larger than a 7x.010". Personal experience with that one. 6x.013s are closer to a 250hp injector. They will actually make more than that. Much more.

 

Nail on the head with spraying out of the bowl. 

[rogerash0]

I'm just at a complex as far as ordering smaller F1 injectors that can tow and DD or ordering the size your suggesting. I plan to tow a 26 ft enclosed trailer full of dirt bikes about 45-65 minutes to the track on the weekends, in VA at sea level.

 

Also estimating I'll tow around 7000 lbs across the country to VA. 

 

Why would DDP sell an injector that doesn't spray in a stock bowl? Why would they not be transparent about that?

[rogerash0]

Question that just came to mind: my reman vp44 that is on the truck now and was on it when I bought it, was getting fed 40psi because my Airdog came set wrong and the installer was an idiot. It got that pressure for probably 3-4 hrs of driving, because it was in another town about 2 hrs away and then I drove it to work for a week. Long story short, it seems unphased, unhurt, it runs as good as my new II vp44, and I've turned it back down to 15-17psi. Under WOT it currently still drops to 10psi with 1/4 tank of fuel, sump kit installed, and 50 hp injectors. It's the airdog II 4G 200. It was a 165 and we put (AD tech support sent me) a 200 motor on there to try to fix the pressure dropping. It made no difference. I've ran new fuel lines three times, all new sealing washers, had the vp44 lines off at least 3 times, swapped vp's, new wiring harness, went to the non adjustable base, installed the 4g 200 motor on my non adjustable AD I base so it negates an airleak at the adjustment screw. Also ran two different diameter fittings bc the AD I base has larger diameter fittings holes than the ADII base. Also changed filter and water separator to new units of slightly different design from Napa. Nothing has fixed my pressure drop. 

 

Essentially when I put 120hp injectors back in the truck and I go WOT with half a tank of gas I bet the truck will go to 8psi or less, and the VP will die unless I roll out of the throttle pretty gently.

 

Are u guys firmly against running 25-40psi to the vp44 to keep the truck from dying on me in traffic when I let off after a wide open pull?

 

The problem was so relevant I went thru a starter. Bleeding the lines sucks and would take roughly 10 sec of cranking with #1 #3 #4 cracked to bleed the air. Even happened in traffic once, seems like it would happen too easily. I've also tried two sump kits because a bolt snapped in half on my XDP sump kit. I thought it stripped out because it's a steel bolt going into an aluminum clamp per say, but turns out the bolt had actually snapped. That was the dual oring design from xdp. I now run one with a gasket from Sinister with The Right Stuff on there and a pretty true 7-9 ft lbs on the bolts and no leaks.

Edited August 18, 2017 by rogerash0

[Dieselfuture]

Man I thought I spent too much money on my truck. 

How is you lift pump wired up, voltage drop maybe causing psi drop? 

And what is your return line from lift pump, is 1/2" all the way to tank till it hits fuel, no restrictions? 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Dieselfuture

[jlbayes]

F1 is an excellent source for vp injectors. Don has had them figured out for a long time.

 

I could ask the same about industrial injection and selling their "race honed" sets.

 

Pinch the return on the airdog. I would put money on it your inlet pressure comes up.

[rogerash0]

Dieselfuture -- Yes, all other hobbies and expenditures have stopped due to the cost and time this truck requires. It's something I said I would do, so I now pay the price. The lift pump is wired up per the instructions, there is a pos and neg lead going to the battery, then the 2 pin connector at the harness is ajoined so when the ECM calls on the lift pump, it energizes a relay in the AD wiring harness and comes on. It has absolutely no restrictions in the inlet & outlet of the pump. No brass fittings ajoining the line, no T for fuel pressure (I have some special AN fittings from a local shop), etc. I have done everything I can to ensure nothing restricts flow. It's all 1/2" line. When I drive the truck I have a readout of my battery voltage on the Edge display, and its not dropping below 13.6-13.7v. I did notice that the voltage dropping to 12.1-12.7v when the alternator was bad causes a massive pressure drop in the pump output. I assume voltage at the pump is good since voltage at my batteries is good. I've also swapped relay's in the wiring harness to no effect.

 

I will certainly try pinching the return on the AD, thanks for the advice. Maybe it needs 3/8" hose? I can hear tons of fuel coming back in the filler neck with the 200gph mounted.