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rogerash0

Lockup bog/timing torque/general q's

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Posted (edited)

My 98.5 auto bogs when the TCC locks up at light throttle. With OD off it locks up at 35mph, otherwise it locks up at 50mph. However my speedo is roughly 5mph fast compared to actual, so subtract those readings by 5.

 

After running custom tunes off this board, it seems like timing of 17/20/25/28 on the Quadzilla makes more lowend torque than my previous timing of 16/19/24/26, and when the TCC locks up its not as prone to bogging and shaking the entire truck to bits. I am confident I have no boost leaks based on the great off idle torque my truck makes, and the supreme lack of smoke (also thanks to going back to a stock stall torque converter).

 

This takes us to my questions:

1) With ARP 625 studs and o-rings like I have, can I throw all the timing in the world at the motor, or will I hurt it at some point? I ask becasue perhaps I can keep increasing lowend timing and gaining power, hopefully to negate my problem all together with another degree or two of timing.

2) I just installed a lockup switch. My problem is lockup is occuring about 10mph too soon. Well, the lockup switch didnt stop the truck from locking the TCC, it just enabled me to lock it even sooner. Not exactly solving my problems here. This leads to 3...

3) Is there a way for me to disable TCC lockup, so I can have the truck only lockup when I command it? This is not practical, but the alternative solution I have been employing is pressing OD off just before 50mph so lockup in 3rd gear is smooth. But then I have to disable OD off at every stop light, because if I leave it on and take off again when it locks at 35mph its ultra harsh. Worse than 4th gear 50mph OD lockup. Not practical at all.

 

Thanks.

Edit; these lockup conditions I speak of, bogging the truck, shaking and rattling the entire drivetrain and cab, happens only at light throttle. If Im wide open or even accelerating hard, the truck will lockup 10mph later or more, and lockup will be perfect. Problem is, most the time daily driving I am at 10-20% throttle whilst crusing. And the roads here are commonly 50mph, so I have that harsh terrible lockup at normal cruising speeds, aka every street, every day. Drives me nuts.

Edited by rogerash0

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lol with 625's you could do 30* from idle up and not blow the head off.    Feel free to throw timing at it.  

 

You can interupt the lockup signal by cutting the wire to the trans, then wiring in your switch between.  

have you adjusted your tv cable?

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Posted (edited)

14mm 625's ;) Blowing the head off isnt a concern (obviously), its hurting something else like the rods or bearings.


I adjusted the TV cable relentlessly with nill results. I then took it to Firepunk where they had to bend the TV bracket. It now shifts at much higher RPMs (2k ish), and shifts right, thank goodness. I havnt played with it since.

 

So your saying to cut the same wire I tapped my lockup switch into, albeit after the switch, right?

 

Also, is there an easy way to wire in another OD OFF switch? Mine is getting worn out and I typically have to press it numerous times unless I get lucky. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by rogerash0

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you are tapping the lockup wire and grounding.  If you want %100 control I would do a 3 position 2 pole switch.  1 position for stock, where the lockup wire is just routed through the switch,  then one position for unlocked where there is no ground possible to lockup, and on3 position for locked where you just ground the lockup.    The pcm would be out of the loop for off and manual lockup positions.

 

 

as for timing vs hurting something.  The truck will run like trash long before you do harm.  

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Posted (edited)

That does sound really good, but the truck really shutters way too bad as it stands to justify the three pole switch. Plus my wife is a smart cookie and can understand the current problem at ease when she drives my drunk *** around (not often). Hopefully the added torque from higher timing helps, but I doubt it. I added another half degree of timing because I can feel a big difference going just half a degree at a time, which I'll test drive tmrw on the way to work.

 

It's also got an auxiliary trans cooler on it now, so even if you drove around with lockup off it would take quite awhile to overheat.

 

Any status on the alternative od off switch? I've been working on my crimps and wiring skills, even purchased a nice Weller soldering iron. Reworked airdog harness pictured.

 

IMG_20180421_181433156.jpg

Putting down 600-700hp, do you think a 4x4 boosted launch at say 3-4psi would blow my truck up? Armet billet input and billet output. Dana 60/70 with 35 spline front axles and Yukon hubs. I feel like it would wreck the transfer case, driveline, and differentials after not too many. Good assumption?

Edited by rogerash0

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Personally I would not risk boosted launches on my truck lol.  You can build it to the moon, but boosted launches are hard on the driveline and will find the weak link.

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Damn, them spider gears? Guess I'll continue not to do any boosted launches. Something will give way.. lol. I figured u joints and transfer case would be first. Not rly worth it.

 

Any advice on when to engage lockup switch? Before big power, not under big power, in the meat of the power around 2k rpms, or? 

It had just rained when I test drove it and I could tell it instantly put down big power as the rears lit up spinning.

The anti torque management mod is next, but they say 98.5-99 don't have Tm? Not sure exactly....

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5 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Also, is there an easy way to wire in another OD OFF switch? Mine is getting worn out and I typically have to press it numerous times unless I get lucky. 

The OD switch can be replaced by just using a small pocket screwdriver to pop the old one out, unplugging  the two wires to it, plug the wires into the new switch and snap the switch into the end of the shifter.

 

You can get the switch out of a wreaking yard.  The same switch is used in ram 1500, 2500, 3500, Durango and Dakota.

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Awesome, thanks guys

 

O ya, and if I cut the lockup wire do I want it to be left with the ground switch on the pcm or trans side?

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Posted (edited)

I'm about $750 into parts for it.  All Spicer components, except for the bearings, which are Timken.  Doing the work myself, with a mechanic friend who I can pay in beer.

Removal took an hour, cause I loosened the ring gear bolts while in the pumpkin still.  Haven't touched it in a couple days, because I neglected to order the ring and pinion on the first go around and then it bit me in the ***.  Going to take the carrier to a proper differential shop to get the carrier bearings off and back on, due to a lack of correct tools and knowledge on my part.

Edited by trreed

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Damn. That's a penny. Glad u got good parts tho. My big deterrant, if $750 isn't enough, is getting the gears backlash right.

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Posted (edited)

Yep, that'll be fun.  My current carrier did not have any shims beneath the bearing caps, so hopefully the new ring gear doesn't need them either!

Moral of the story is don't be a dumbass and show off!

Edited by trreed

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Posted (edited)

Haha ya I learnt that with a lifeflight out of the mtns some years ago

 

What did u do exactly?

Edited by rogerash0

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3 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Awesome, thanks guys

 

O ya, and if I cut the lockup wire do I want it to be left with the ground switch on the pcm or trans side?

You want it on the trans side but no need to cut just use a quick splice connector to attache the grounding wire to the lockup wire.  

 

You can do something like this or trying to just running the wire through a switch to ground.

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/52_transmission-transfer-case/diy-converter-lock-up-with-brake-pedal-release-r536/ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

You say to splice/wire tap down at the trans becasue its a shorter path to ground that way? I read elsewhere to be as close to the pcm connector as possible, and since that was less total wire to run, I went that method.

 

I just need to know which side of the wire splice to cut. Reason why is I assume its a 5v signal wire, being that its orange and black, and it can be switched to ground (duh). So if I cut it off from the PCM, how will it ever get 5v? But if I cut the other side that goes to the trans, how will the solenoid know when its grounded? Obviously there are more wires going to the trans, so there's a second wire to this equation, coming from the PCM, to tell it otherwise. So with that said, I would assume leave the wire from PCM to switch to ground, and cut the wire after the splice, cutting it between the splice & the trans. I'd just rather ask than hack up the harness more than need be.

Edited by rogerash0

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the solenoid wire black / orange is not a 5v, it is a open -> ground wire.   

 

IF you want to disable the pcms ablity to command lockup then you splice the lockup wire at any point, then cut between the splice and the pcm. 

 

I am guessing you will get a CEL.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

What did u do exactly?

Well, thought it would be a good idea to do a burnout.  It was not.  This is a Dana 80 too, so your 70 would definitely blow up.  

As for the timing, I'm not sure the orifice size on the Mach6's, but with my 6x0.013's, my daily timing is 17 / 21 / 23.5 / 27 / 30.  And then I have a tune where I'm not quite sure why I'm doing what I am, and that timing is 22 / 24 / 26 / 30 / 30 

Edited by trreed

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Posted (edited)

I just set mine to 20/24/28/30 and did a burn out turning onto the parkway when I floored it. I assume you hit a pot hole or big bump or had it absolutely screaming? I wasn't trying to do a burn out, so it would suck to do what u did by accident.  She's running pretty good.

 

From what I understand, from talking to Don who makes the mach 6s, is the orfice size of the mach 6 is smaller than 6x0.013 but flow is very much comparable. He said the angle and how the hole is shaped is vastly more important than it's size. 6x0.013 is what I said I wanted and he said mach 6 is essentially that. I could tell he was hesitant to say the holes were smaller but that's in a way what he said by immediately mentioning not the size but how he tailors the orfices.

 

I bring that up bc I wonder why you brought up injector hole size in relation to timing.

Edited by rogerash0

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Posted (edited)

Ah perfect.

Also why don't you run 22/24/28/30. You mentioned 22/24/26/30 but in your other setup you run 27 (that would be on the 2500rpm slider).

 

I'm asking bc in the past my truck got violent and jerky with high timing, that's why I'm just now coming around to it. I think that was a fueling issue all along, though. Ever since I completely took my airdog apart 100% and cleaned poured engine oil over all the seals and cleaned everything pristine it's ran a ton better. Looks like I still hit 0 psi when I floored it and spun the tires today though. But that wasn't with a mechanical gauge to be 100% certain. It wasn't jerky and didn't buck, so my digital reading of minimum fuel pressure @ 0psi may be misconceiving.

Edited by rogerash0

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