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hey guys, been awhile. i havent even messed with the truck since we talked last. I was just sitting here wondering. would an easy option be to put a sump in with half inch line up to the raptor in the factory location. because if its sucking air it has to be between the tank and lift pump. 

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I'm not a fan of sumps at all and some place are consider possibly illegal. I've been running a draw straw for years now and never had an air leak. I installed that straw back in 2006 its 2018 now but I'm running a full AirDog not a Raptor in the stock placement which is a poor pump in the first place and does not replace any of the small lines or quick disconnects.

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2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I'm not a fan of sumps at all and some place are consider possibly illegal. I've been running a draw straw for years now and never had an air leak. I installed that straw back in 2006 its 2018 now but I'm running a full AirDog not a Raptor in the stock placement which is a poor pump in the first place and does not replace any of the small lines or quick disconnects.

why arent you a fan of sumps? other than you thinking they will get ripped off, which i would never have that problem. i know the raptor isnt great or replace any of the factory line, but you could definitely get a barb fitting that fits in the inlet side of raptor and run a line from the sump to the raptor. and a raptor is better than a stock carter pump

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16 minutes ago, cumminsVP2001 said:

why arent you a fan of sumps?

 

Some state laws state that fuel can no be drawn from the bottom of a fuel tank. If sumps were legal concept then all modern diesel trucks would be outfitted with them. But they are not for a safety reason. Might check your local laws about bottom draw fuel tanks.

 

Some that most people won't admit to publicly is the huge hassle it is to replace a fuel tank after a sump has failed. I've talked to many people this has happened to. I've had people calling me asking where to find a factory fuel tank replacements because of failed sumps. 

 

Yes they can be ripped off I've found a few here locally that thought the same thing ruined the fuel tank and the sump both. Back to that topic of replacing the fuel tank. An again difficult problem to resolve.

 

Sumps do not guarantee a fix to an air leak problem. You can still have air leaks with a sump. 

 

 

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Me, I am not cutting a hole in my tank for a sump. I have been pulling fuel from the basket for almost 17 years. In stock trim, in tank pump trim and AD trim. In all three they suck the tank dry. A sump is just as prone to suck air due to fuel slosh as any means outside the basket pick up method.

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1 minute ago, dripley said:

Me, I am not cutting a hole in my tank for a sump. I have been pulling fuel from the basket for almost 17 years. In stock trim, in tank pump trim and AD trim. In all three they suck the tank dry. A sump is just as prone to suck air due to fuel slosh as any means outside the basket pick up method.

the thing im trying to avoid is dropping the tank to replace lines. im not trying to do that on the side of the road. i installed a sump on my truck in my signature and have had no problems and was a very easy install, thus why i asked

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Posted (edited)

I've installed my drawstraw back in 2006. It now 2018 with 350k miles on the clock. The AirDog 150 pump replaced once. Never had a straw issue as of yet. 

 

6 minutes ago, cumminsVP2001 said:

the thing im trying to avoid is dropping the tank to replace lines.

 

Just do it not hard at all. I dropped my fuel tank and replaced the fuel sender (gauge sender). I work smarter I bring the friend over get the beer flowing and get him to install the tank I dropped. Still in all I would rather drop the tank and replace the fuel lines and have them on top and away from freezing weather and have the straw at least in a modern fuel basket than drilling a huge hole in the bottom of the tank to find out later on the sump fail. The company that built the sump is gone and so is the replacement parts. I remember the days of the old Scotty II air filter for these trucks but long gone now. How about DiPricol Gauge that everyone loved... Gone with the wind never to be sold again. 

 

Image result for mopar1973man draw straw

 

Image result for mopar1973man draw straw

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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I guess missed something. What is the truck you are speaking of?

 

It still would not change my mind on drilling a hole in the tank. But thats my tank, If you want to drill yours, go for it. I have had to much success with mine to do it. I just have no desire to penetrate the bottom of my tank, but thats me.

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i wish i had mechanically inclined friends. but i dont think every sump company in the world is going to vanish. i get your point but to me all the work in dropping the tank is not worth it. time is more valuable to me than money. and knowing i can knock out a sump and lines in 20 min vs more than likely several hours with dropping the tank. not to mention every bolt on this truck is seized. 

2 minutes ago, dripley said:

I guess missed something. What is the truck you are speaking of?

 

It still would not change my mind on drilling a hole in the tank. But thats my tank, If you want to drill yours, go for it. I have had to much success with mine to do it. I just have no desire to penetrate the bottom of my tank, but thats me.

my 2nd 2001, not the one in my signature. i get the fear of drilling your tank. i had the same fear, but like i sad i havent had an issue so far, but it also hasnt been very long since i installed it

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12 minutes ago, cumminsVP2001 said:

i wish i had mechanically inclined friends. but i dont think every sump company in the world is going to vanish. i get your point but to me all the work in dropping the tank is not worth it. time is more valuable to me than money. and knowing i can knock out a sump and lines in 20 min vs more than likely several hours with dropping the tank. not to mention every bolt on this truck is seized. 

my 2nd 2001, not the one in my signature. i get the fear of drilling your tank. i had the same fear, but like i sad i havent had an issue so far, but it also hasnt been very long since i installed it

I hope you never have a problem with the sump. I think it is personal choice. Me, dropping the tank was not that difficult in the grand scheme of installing the AD lift pump. Had to do it twice to complete the job due to installer error. Not a friend just me. I get some help sometimes and others not  Seized bolts, yep, Dodge did not know what anti seize was. I have been thru that one.Like I said If you are ok with a sump install it. I am ok dropping the tank. A lot of stuff is personal preference.

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Just a question... if a person had to or wanted to go back to a fuel module...  

What does one do to plug up the hole that was drilled for sump?

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3 minutes ago, 015point9 said:

Just a question... if a person had to or wanted to go back to a fuel module...  

What does one do to plug up the hole that was drilled for sump?

 

Replace the entire fuel tank. That is the only answer. There is no way to repair the tank after drilling that massive hole in the bottom.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Replace the entire fuel tank. That is the only answer. There is no way to repair the tank after drilling that massive hole in the bottom.

Ok thanks... I've got one with sump and drawstraw laying in shed.  Hate to toss it because I had very hard time finding replacement. Was at Vulcan one day he had one out of pre 98 that he sold me.  But i'm also tired of tripping over tank with sump in it.  A very good welder in town said he could, but no receipt and cash only.  Which most knows what that means.

Edited by 015point9

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, 015point9 said:

A very good welder in town said he could, but no receipt. 

 

The problem is the tank is produced with two types of plastics the white inside skin than the black outer skin. I still have my doubt on plastic welding a fuel tank being I use to do the same kind of plastic welding back in the 90's for motorcycle bodywork. T actually get the plastic to melt and bond together good is rare at best and even back then we use to embed steel mesh to give strength knowing the plastic never melts completely. 

 

It would be a different story if the tank was steel or aluminum then you have a metal that could be welded together or modified easily and could go back and forth and repair it no problem. The plastic that is a problem there no silver bullet for welding the hole back up solid like it was OEM wise. 

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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Dropping the tank is only two bolts. 

 

If youre worried about sucking air then putting a sump (or any drawstraw or module) just seems like throwin money (and time) at a problem you’re unsure of. I know you’ve tried a ton already, but I’d verify 100% there’s no leaks and tried all other suggestions here before I randomly starting throwing time and money at my truck in hopes of fixing it. 

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3 hours ago, notlimah said:

Dropping the tank is only two bolts. 

 

If youre worried about sucking air then putting a sump (or any drawstraw or module) just seems like throwin money (and time) at a problem you’re unsure of. I know you’ve tried a ton already, but I’d verify 100% there’s no leaks and tried all other suggestions here before I randomly starting throwing time and money at my truck in hopes of fixing it. 

well if i am sucking air then putting a new fuel lines from the tank to the lift pump should fix it no?

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I guess in theory yea. Is the tank full right now? Like really full? Could also park nose down hill over night but either way, get fuel to cover the entire basket in the tank. If you’re still having problems then the leak is somewhere further down the line, but outside of the tank. If it solves it then your problem is in the tank and from there you can go with a sump/drawstraw/liberty module or whatevs.

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19 hours ago, notlimah said:

I guess in theory yea. Is the tank full right now? Like really full? Could also park nose down hill over night but either way, get fuel to cover the entire basket in the tank. If you’re still having problems then the leak is somewhere further down the line, but outside of the tank. If it solves it then your problem is in the tank and from there you can go with a sump/drawstraw/liberty module or whatevs.

yes it is on F. i believe 30-50miles driven since fill up

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On 7/23/2018 at 5:55 PM, cumminsVP2001 said:

well if i am sucking air then putting a new fuel lines from the tank to the lift pump should fix it no?

 

As long as the there are no quick connect fittings. This is why most of us opt for Packer Push Lock JIC connectors they are self-sealing and way less issue with air leak problems. Quick connection lines like the stock lines or Newer AirDog are prone to suction leaks. Some guys have gone back and order the parker push locks and cut the quick connectors off and replace them.

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9 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

As long as the there are no quick connect fittings. This is why most of us opt for Packer Push Lock JIC connectors they are self-sealing and way less issue with air leak problems. Quick connection lines like the stock lines or Newer AirDog are prone to suction leaks. Some guys have gone back and order the parker push locks and cut the quick connectors off and replace them.

well it did it with the raptor and then still when i put back on the stock pump which has no quick connect

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There is 2 actually... One just below the stock placement where the plastic line comes up. Then the connector at the fuel sender is a plastic quick connect. There is a 3rd which in on the return side but typically not a huge issue. 

 

Stock placement places a lot of vacuum on the suction side. Just put a can of your favorite beer in the bed of the truck about where the sender now gives you piece of tubing and try to suck the beer from that can in the bed. You'll be all pissed off. This is why most of dump the stock pump (location) and moved back close as possible to the fuel tank which reduces the amount of vacuum on the suction line this also reduces the air leak issue. 

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