How Many Times Can You Use Stock Head Bolts?

[TheGreatWhite]

After coming up with different ideas on how to put this 02 motor in my new-to-me 99, I somehow stumbled into an extremely good deal on a 99 motor with 293k. Guy that still owns it (as of 7/11 I have not picked it up yet) took the head off to check the cylinders to make it his race truck, but decided to do something else. Moral of the story is it needs a new gasket and I am wondering how many times you can reuse the bolts, can I save some money and reuse them? Or is it better to just go buy some ARP or upgraded bolts. Anything helps, thanks!!

 

TL;DR: How many times can I use the stock head bolts because I'm cheap.

[Me78569]

just buy arp.  

[KMayborn]

Stock head bolts are torque to yield. When installed you are actually stretching the bolt. They are one time use.

[TheGreatWhite]

1 minute ago, KMayborn said:

Stock head bolts are torque to yield. When installed you are actually stretching the bolt. They are one time use.

Oh ok, do you know where to find upgraded ones or new ones??

[Dieselfuture]

I'm sure you can get away on a stock motor by reusing them especially with new gasket it will last for a while but then one day you'll be wishing you did studs. I would check the head for cracks and pressure test it and surface it, also check guides, I had to replace my at 153k as 12 of them were ovaled out and seals were starting to leak. Kind of stumped myself as it only had 153k and some go over a million without pulling a head off. 

Or at least surface it if you trust the guy and put it back on with studs. I have h11 for studs from po, and they say you don't have to retorque them or bottom tap them and I reused them too when I had my head off. I haven't retorqued it yet and have 7k since. Not sure if I'm going to retorque or just say it's good enough. 

I always wondered on factory engines,  no one ever retorque bolts, guessing because they are yield to torque or something like that, but you would think studs if installed right shouldn't need retorque ether. By done right I mean after 3 steps of getting to final torque I go back through each one (this time it doesn't matter on sequence) and losen it up relube and torque back to final spec, in my case I went 135ft/lb on h11. I never had a problem doing it this way on different vehicles. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Dieselfuture

[TheGreatWhite]

2 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I'm sure you can get away on a stock motor by reusing them especially with new gasket it will last for a while but then one day you'll be wishing you did studs. I would check the head for cracks and pressure test it and surface it, also check guides, I had to replace my at 153k as 12 of them were ovaled out and seals were starting to leak. Kind of stumped myself as it only had 153k and some good over a million without pulling a head off. 

Or at least surface it if you trust the guy and put it back on with studs. I have h11 for studs from po, and they say you don't have to retorque them or bottom tap them and I reused them too when I had my head off. I haven't retorqued it yet and have 7k since. Not sure if I'm going to retorque or just say it's good enough. 

I always wondered on factory engines,  no one ever retorque bolts, guessing because they are yield to torque or something like that, but you would think studs if installed right shouldn't need retorque ether. By done right I mean after 3 steps of getting to final torque I go back through each one (this time it doesn't matter on sequence) and losen it up relube and torque back to final spec, in my case I went 135ft/lb on h11. I never had a problem doing it this way on different vehicles. 

Does it need to be surfaced and if so where can I get that done at?? 

[Dieselfuture]

1 minute ago, TheGreatWhite said:

Does it need to be surfaced and if so where can I get that done at?? 

With that kind of mileage is say at least surface, they recommend any time you pull the head off to surface it, but I've skipped a few times and got a way. 

I used a local machine shop that's all they been doing for last 30 years is built race motors, they know their stuff. But beware some are out to get you, I know these guys for a long time and never had a problem or ever heard of them screwing someone, they have a competitor across town that is known to screw newbies over but treats his drinking buddies good. He screwed me once a long time ago, I never been back and how I found this other place. 

Put small indentations in few random places and take a picture, so you know it's your head when you get it back if you don't trust them. These heads like to crack (and not all cracks are bad) and they may have a friend that need a good head, just never know these days. 

Good luck. 

[TheGreatWhite]

2 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

With that kind of mileage is say at least surface, they recommend any time you pull the head off to surface it, but I've skipped a few times and got a way. 

I used a local machine shop that's all they been doing for last 30 years is built race motors, they know their stuff. But beware some are out to get you, I know these guys for a long time and never had a problem or ever heard of them screwing someone, they have a competitor across town that is known to screw newbies over but treats his drinking buddies good. He screwed me once a long time ago, I never been back and how I found this other place. 

Put small indentations in few random places and take a picture, so you know it's your head when you get it back if you don't trust them. These heads like to crack (and not all cracks are bad) and they may have a friend that need a good head, just never know these days. 

Good luck. 

How much does surfacing cost and how long does it take??

[Guest 04Mach1]

34 minutes ago, KMayborn said:

Stock head bolts are torque to yield. When installed you are actually stretching the bolt. They are one time use.

Actually as long as the bolts do not exceed "free length measurement" and have no corrosion or pitting they are re-usable.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by 04Mach1

[Dieselfuture]

8 minutes ago, TheGreatWhite said:

How much does surfacing cost and how long does it take??

Depending on a shop, maybe 80-100 to surface, plus they usually tank it in cleaning solution it may be extra it may not. And just depends on how busy they are, the job itself may be half an hour or so also depends on how bad it is and how many passes they need to make. 

[TheGreatWhite]

4 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

Actually as long as the bolts do not exceed "free length measurement" they are re-usable.

 

 

Very helpful thank you! Where can I get one of these gauges??

[Me78569]

if you have the money, do studs.  All that work to resurface just isn't worth the risk in my mind.  

[TheGreatWhite]

1 minute ago, Me78569 said:

if you have the money, do studs.  All that work to resurface just isn't worth the risk in my mind.  

Aren't studs like $600? Its not going to be high horsepower by any means.

[Guest 04Mach1]

If you have a Cummins engine dealer near you they may have one. You could try a heavy truck dealer too. I think if you get a genuine Cummins head set they usually come with the gauge. The esn that's on the tag on the front cover will be helpful if you go to Cummins for parts.

[Me78569]

$415

[TheGreatWhite]

Just now, 04Mach1 said:

If you have a Cummins engine dealer near you they may have one. You could try a heavy truck dealer too. I think if you get a genuine Cummins head set they usually come with the gauge. The esn that's on the tag on the front cover will be helpful if you go to Cummins for parts.

Will I short out and not do a quality job if I reuse them if they're in spec? I'm just worried about blowing the head gasket and having to do this all over. Also I have a Central Power dealer I believe about 45min. away from me so I might hit them up.

1 minute ago, Me78569 said:

$415

Well, I'll have to ask my brother since it'll eventually be his truck and see what he wants in the end.

[Guest 04Mach1]

7 minutes ago, TheGreatWhite said:

Will I short out and not do a quality job if I reuse them if they're in spec? I'm just worried about blowing the head gasket and having to do this all over. Also I have a Central Power dealer I believe about 45min. away from me so I might hit them up.

Well, I'll have to ask my brother since it'll eventually be his truck and see what he wants in the end.

As long as they are in spec for free length and the is no corrosion or pitting damage they are good with little chance of failure. I've rebuilt many of these little Cummins engines and have not had to replace a head bolt yet. 

 

 Make sure to lubricate bolt threads and bottom side of the flange with clean engine oil when installing head bolts to aid in proper torque and clamping force.

 

In case you need it...

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by 04Mach1

[TheGreatWhite]

2 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

As long as they are in spec for free length and the is no corrosion or pitting damage they are good with little chance of failure. I've rebuilt many of these little Cummins engines and have not had to replace a head bolt yet. 

 

In case you need it...

 

 

Thank you sir!! This is personally my first time doing anything big to an engine, outside of injectors and the little things.

[Guest 04Mach1]

1 minute ago, TheGreatWhite said:

Thank you sir!! This is personally my first time doing anything big to an engine, outside of injectors and the little things.

Also make sure to lubricate bolt threads and underside of bolt head flange with clean engine oil when installing head bolts to aid in the proper torque and clamping force.

[TheGreatWhite]

Just now, 04Mach1 said:

Also make sure to lubricate bolt threads and underside of bolt head flange with clean engine oil when installing head bolts to aid in the proper torque and clamping force.

Locktite or anything?? Would just dipping all of the bolt beside the top of the head of the bolt work? Or just use a finger?