ECM or APPS truck surging

[AllenG]

I have a new VP44 second one in a month after getting them to warranty the first one due to surging and a P0216 code.  Everything from the fuel tank to the VP44 is new, new in injectors too.  Truck is still surging and throwing a P0216 code.  I am stariting to think it’s the ecm by past posts.

[dripley]

Mine has been surging for a while on and off. What makes you think it is the ECM. Pretty convinced mine is a wiring issue. New Apps did not cure it. The ECM does not command throttle as I understand.

[Mopar1973Man]

P0216 code...

 

Quote

Monitor & Set Conditions

 

Fuel injection pump operation is monitored with ignition on. DTC will set when the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM, fuel command 5 mm3/str and timing command within a certain window.

 

 

ECM has nothing to do with it. P0216 code is caused by...

 

Quote

Possible Causes

Other DTCs
Fuel Injection Pump Gear Alignment
Fuel Filter Restriction
Transfer Pump Inlet Restriction
Fuel Injection Pump

 

Is your pump gear still in time? Like this member had it off by a tooth. What's your fuel pressure like at highway speed?

[Me78569]

yep p0216 is not ecm or apps related it is all timing.

[AllenG]

Fuel pressure is around 13 at highway speeds.  

[Me78569]

where are you getting your VP's from?

[AllenG]

So even with getting it all lined up right and key way at TDC when I pulled the first bad vp44 then the second warranty one you think I may be off one tooth?  That will cause the surge and through the code?  Cuz it runs great other than every once in a while it surges.

Pumps are coming from diesel power products.

You can see on the screen shot where the calc load dropped off sharp about 7 times.  I did my best through this entire test to keep my foot steady and constant on the pedal and watch the fuel pressure and rpms when it surged.  This was all while I was at highway speeds and fuel pressure stays constant when it surges.  I thought maybe the ecm was jacking with fueling on the vp.  I don’t know anything about the ecm’s on these trucks.

[Mopar1973Man]

26 minutes ago, AllenG said:

Fuel pressure is around 13 at highway speeds.  

 

Sounds like its getting low under WOT operation. You should see 14-20 PSI at WOT. Once you drop under 14 PSI the overflow valve closes and the return fuel stops. Then your extra fuel for cooling and lubing stops as well. 

 

18 minutes ago, AllenG said:

Pumps are coming from diesel power products.

 

Might ask who is rebuilding there pumps. There is only a small handful of Bosch 815 test stands in the US. If you don't have a 815 test stand there is no way to program or test the VP44 pump or flash the new PSG.

 

 

[AllenG]

So you think another faulty pump?  Possibly?  Or you still think I’m off a tooth?

No address but here is the town they had me send the warranty pump to.  Diesel power products is out of Spokane Valley, Washington so they must be getting their pumps re built by someone in Arkansas.  You know who that may be?  And if they’re in the list?

[Mopar1973Man]

6 minutes ago, AllenG said:

So you think another faulty pump?

That is possible...

 

6 minutes ago, AllenG said:

Or you still think I’m off a tooth?

That is also possible...

 

The only way to tell is check the gear timing. Part that sucks is that you have to pull the gearcase open and replace the front crank seal. The other way is to take the gamble that you have a bad pump but will your supplier say you voided warranty? If you go this route make sure to take photos of your pump and any numbers and data on the label. This way if they call Void then you can verify with your photos if they are looking at the right pump. 

[AllenG]

They warrantied the first one last month just off of a picture of the p0216 code, picture of good fuel pressure, and picture of the dash showing the truck at speed and rpms.  By the way like I told them this truck has never had any programmer on it.  Having a programmer was their only question and said that would void their warranty.  Damn I don’t want to pull the front cover.....

[Mopar1973Man]

One member suggested using a borescope for checking the KDP problem. I'm not sure if you could see the timing marks or not but it might be worth trying by scope down the gearcase and see if you can see the timing marks.

[AllenG]

Ok I’ll try that and see if it will work.  If not I guess I have a good reason to go fix the killer dowl pin now.

[2000Ram2500]

13 hours ago, AllenG said:

Ok I’ll try that and see if it will work.  If not I guess I have a good reason to go fix the killer dowl pin now.

 

Dowel pins was the early 12 valves only i thought

[AllenG]

May be, I was told the 53 blocks in the 99’s had then too.  Tell me if I’m wrong it will just save me time.  I ordered a scope last night gonna try that before I pull the cover.

[Mopar1973Man]

5 hours ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Dowel pins was the early 12 valves only i thought

2

 

1989 to 2001 is KDP years. There has only been one that I know of reported in 2002. The owner had a picture of the invoice up and it showed 2002 Dodge. Rather wild but rare.

[2000Ram2500]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

1989 to 2001 is KDP years. There has only been one that I know of reported in 2002. The owner had a picture of the invoice up and it showed 2002 Dodge. Rather wild but rare.

 

I guess i should probably look into that on mine then.... 

[AllenG]

After a year of slight surging and seeing this from my OBDII scanner I swapped out my apps.  I also have completely re done my fuel lines, draw straw, and swapped to a raptor pump.  While I was at it I swapped out my alternator since it looked like the original was on the truck.  The truck seems to be running great now with no surging.........but now I have another issue!  No signal from pcm to the alternator plug so it’s not charging.  The ac clutch is also only engaging now at startup, once it kicks off it will not come back on until the next start up.  The old alternator was putting out 14v and the ac was working perfect, tried swapping back to the old alternator and no luck.  Put the new one back in again and all is the same.  Then tested the plug and it looks like nothing is coming from the pcm to the back of the alternator.  Yes I have checked all fuses and relays.......is my pcm bad????

[Mopar1973Man]

11 hours ago, AllenG said:

The ac clutch is also only engaging now at startup, once it kicks off it will not come back on until the next start up.

 

A/C relay might be bad.

 

Check the blue wire on the field it should have +12V after tach signal is sensed (engine running).

[AllenG]

A/c relay is good, checked the blue wire, no power to it.  Talked to a local mechanic he seems to think that the pcm is shutting down the a/c relay due to low voltage and if we fix the alternator not charging everything else will start working.  I am going to look and verify there is no short anywhere, if I replace the pcm I am going to put a inline fuse on the blue wire the way you showed on a post I read last night.  Any other reason there would be no power to the blue wire other than the pcm not sending signal?