Trouble Starting Engine - HELP

[dripley]

29 minutes ago, dave110 said:

Not doubting Dripley at all, but I had never heard about the shutdown delay so I had to try. I shut mine off and as soon as the shaking stopped I rolled it right back to start and it fired right up. That being said I have a 99 and have been made aware of several different changes in programming between the early and later years as I continue to study these sometimes finicky trucks.

 They will start right back up but I dont believe the lift pump will provide priming bump or the 20 second or so run of the full pump with out waiting. But they will start right back up and the lift pump will run as it should. I am pulling the delay out of my memory from a good while back. I will try anything before condeming an ECM. 

 I just tried it on mine and it was hit and miss. Out of 6 tries key off and then right back on. Twice I got the priming bump and 4 times not. I will let ya'll be the judge on that test. 

 

 As far as doubting Dripley, knock yourself out. I have made my fair share of mistakes. No offense taken.

Edited October 12, 2018 by dripley

[RAD]

talking about ECM's, found these pictures on my computer. this is a data sheet that was sent back to me with my repaired ECM.

Not sure if the "AW Drive" means anything other than "All Wheel Drive", which my truck is not "All Wheel Drive"/4 wheel drive. i do not know if this makes a difference. Is the engine in all these 3/4 and 1 ton trucks considered to be "heavy duty"?

here are the other stickers and info that is on my ECM. wish i had my engine stamp to compare them with.

[Mopar1973Man]

13 hours ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Mike what’s the best way to test cranking psi?

 

Pull the fuel pump relay from the PDC and crank the engine over and get a measurement.

 

13 hours ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Is the short time between turn of the key and start of the truck enough to get an accurate reading? 

 

No. worthless. You need a solid 5 to 15 seconds of cranking to see a good number and make sure you not measuring a air bubble or wild numbers. 

12 hours ago, RAD said:

Shoot, I wouldn’t know where to stop, 4500????

 

WOT at safe highway speed like passing another vehicle. Where you stomped to the fuel pouring everything you got under load. 

 

Engine is governor out to 3,200 RPM anyways. 

[RAD]

26 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Where you stomped to the fuel pouring everything you got under load. 

 

no, it was idling in my yard, just kept pressing the pedal up to 2,000 rpms and watching the fuel pressure gage go down to 13psi, then let off the petal immediately and then it died.

[Mopar1973Man]

10 minutes ago, RAD said:

no, it was idling in my yard, just kept pressing the pedal up to 2,000 rpms and watching the fuel pressure gage go down to 13psi, then let off the petal immediately and then it died.

 

Meaningless number then. It MUST be rolling down the highway. Neutral/Park and revving the RPM up it meaningless. There is no real fuel flow at that point. Let's say I've measure upwards of 20 GPH injected to the engine at highway speeds WOT. Revving the engine in neutral you might break over 0.5 GPH because there is no load on the engine. 

 

More than likely your fuel pump is junk if it can't even hold 14 to 20 PSI revving in neutral. 

 

Again...

 

Idle is 17 PSI

WOT at over 80 MPH is 15 PSI. 

 

That is stability only found with larger fuel pump like the AirDog 150 or FASS 150 pump with full 1/2" pumping. Won't find that with a AirTex using the stock 6mm ID (Which is smaller than 1/4 fuel hose!) plumbing and banjo bolts. 

 

 

Old video... Still the same today... still running the same AirDog 150...

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[RAD]

i have had to depend on other people wayyyy too long, yall will prolly not like this, i have to get this truck running, for the time being i may have to get a delphi lift pump. oem design. hopefully it will last until the tax man comes!!! i just hope that will solve the fuel pressure/dying thing for now.

 

question is, how can i wire it to relieve the ECM, will it crank if the ECM foes not find a lift pump?

 

yes, the red dodge truck is fun to drive, but 7 mpg its not that econimical.

[dripley]

You can biild a relay harness for it your self. Ther is an article about it in the articles section. Or just just hot wire it with a switch for the short term. The AD and Fass both come with them.

[RAD]

6 minutes ago, dripley said:

You can biild a relay harness for it your self. Ther is an article about it in the articles section. Or just just hot wire it with a switch for the short term. The AD and Fass both come with them.

will look in a bit, time to get fed!!

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, RAD said:

i have to get this truck running, for the time being i may have to get a delphi lift pump. oem design.

 

it's not us... It the VP44. As long as the pressure is dropping below 14 PSI your just aiming for VP44 replacement. 

 

Another way to look at it. Minimum oil pressure spec for these engine is 10 PSI at idle and 30 PSI at 2,000 RPM. How long do you think the engine will last right at the minimum oil pressure limit? Most likely not very long. Same thing is true for the VP44 being the only lubricant is the fuel itself and the only means of cooling the pump internal parts is by keeping the overflow valve open with return flow to the fuel tank. If the pressure falls below 14 PSI you just cut your cooling for the VP44 and take a risk of burning up the PSG unit on the VP44. Another thing is the VP44 needs fuel pressure to move the timing so if the fuel pressure drops too low the cam ring can't be advanced properly hence the P0216 that comes with low pressure problems. 

 

Just food for thought. 

 

1 hour ago, RAD said:

yes, the red dodge truck is fun to drive, but 7 mpg its not that econimical.

 

Ummm what the specs on this truck is this the diesel or a gasoline engine? 7 MPG is serious low for either version. My 1996 Dodge 1500 V8 5.9L gets 17 MPG and the 2002 Dodge Cummins gets 20 to 21 MPG.

1 hour ago, RAD said:

question is, how can i wire it to relieve the ECM, will it crank if the ECM foes not find a lift pump?

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[RAD]

i did think about it, i have just about talked myself out of it. i just hope i have not cause any undo damage to the IP.

 

the red truck is gasoline,and not stock, it has quite a few goodies on and in the engine.

[Mopar1973Man]

37 minutes ago, RAD said:

the red truck is gasoline,and not stock, it has quite a few goodies on and in the engine.

 

Sure didn't do much for the efficiency of the engine. 

 

I've got a Mopar Performance PCM and did a little regearing for the truck and no set it up for 17 MPG truck. 

[RAD]

11 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Sure didn't do much for the efficiency of the engine. 

 

I've got a Mopar Performance PCM and did a little regearing for the truck and no set it up for 17 MPG truck. 

once all that stuff started going out i took it off. it had double smog systems. i think one for each side of the motor, i got it with worn rings and no a/c. it was some kind of aftermarket conversion truck. it is badged 250 but had a narrowed dana 70 dually 205 transfer case and a dana 60 front axle. after checking it should have had a dana 60 rear, 208 transfer cas and a 8-lug 44 in the front.

[Mopar1973Man]

Sound like a shade tree hack job. 

[RAD]

13 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Sound like a shade tree hack job. 

i dunno, and it had two different gear sets in it so 4 wheel drive was useless.

 

back to the non running one, the fuel delivery setup that dripley suggested is way out of my reach right now. may just wait another month and get the fass ddrp and the relay pigtail fass offers.will that take care of the IP demands?

[Mopar1973Man]

26 minutes ago, RAD said:

may just wait another month and get the fass ddrp

 

I would skip the DDRP because that will not deal with the plumbing issues. The pump tend to fail premature because of restriction stress placed on the pump being they are still sucking through the same 6mm ID lines and still mounted on the block then trying to pump through a 6mm ID line and banjo bolts. None of the DDRP pumps are quality units sorry to say.

 

The only solutions I would suggest is Full AirDog, Full FASS or Fuel Boss mechanical pump. Any of these kits will replace all the plumbing and the pickup assembly. Basically, you need to ditch all the stock plumbing from the fuel tank to the VP44. Like myself, I've got an AirDog 150 that is heading for 13 years old and has over 250k of service. The pump head was replaced once. Maybe that's why my last VP44 lasted 243k miles. 

 

 

Then I kept my stock fuel filter so I'm double stacked filtering my fuel. Because even the stock 10um filter is catching fuel debris that the 3um Donaldson let pass through. I know the fuel heading to the VP44 is as clean as possible. Yes I cut my filters open and to see debris amount. 

 

Here is what it looks like at 15,000 mile filter changes.  This is a Fleetgaurd filter after 15,000 miles which was a waste to change this early. I'm interval are up to 50k to 60k miles now.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

My set up is almost dentical to Mikes. We both run 2 stroke oil also as most others. My VP has 237k on it. I am closing in on him. 

[RAD]

1 hour ago, dripley said:

My set up is almost dentical to Mikes. We both run 2 stroke oil also as most others. My VP has 237k on it. I am closing in on him. 

Git ‘im!

[RAD]

Recent observations 

 

went to crank it, nothing

waited a bit, same thing.

 

opend and bled three lines while LP was running, cranked it up and started. Let it warm up a bit and turned the A/C on. Noticeable rpm drop, but picked back up. I could not tell how many PSI it dropped, but it did. Turned A/C off, ran normally. Turned it back on, rpm and psi drop. Engine rpm picked back up and a few seconds later, it died. 

ECM and top of IP both cool to the touch. It ran long enough to move the water temp guage just over 140.

[Marcus2000monster]

1 minute ago, RAD said:

Recent observations 

 

went to crank it, nothing

waited a bit, same thing.

 

opend and bled three lines while LP was running, cranked it up and started. Let it warm up a bit and turned the A/C on. Noticeable rpm drop, but picked back up. I could not tell how many PSI it dropped, but it did. Turned A/C off, ran normally. Turned it back on, rpm and psi drop. Engine rpm picked back up and a few seconds later, it died. 

ECM and top of IP both cool to the touch. It ran long enough to move the water temp guage just over 140.

What lift pump do you have right now? Have you verified it is working properly? 

[RAD]

It’s an airtex e7153