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12vhunter

Nv4500 atf+4??

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I went to the dodge dealer and he said that atf +4 had to be used in my nv4500.

He said it superceded the old oil and when he typed in the part number it kept coming back to the atf +4 so I'm wondering if I can use it.

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Ummm... I would say you need a synthetic GL-4 lubricant. Most tend to like the light viscosity oils I went to Mobil 50 SAE used in Eaton Fuller transmissions. Cleared 100k with no issues works got in cold climate as well down to -40F.

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My 96 had a 5 speed behind a V10  I could swear that tranny used ATF. That was back in 99 and 00 not sure the ATF 4 was available then. Just dont remember.

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4 hours ago, 12vhunter said:

Ok thanks guys I guess I'll keep looking for the right stuff

 

No longer exist anymore. Castrol Syntorque is no longer manufactured. Yeah, I know the AMSOil claim to have an oil that meets all the spec comes at quite a price. This is why I started breaking the bond of name brands and scares of wrong fluids. Basically what it requires is GL-4 lubricant. You can be anywhere from 75 weight to 90 weight gear oil. 

 

Like PenzOil Syncromesh is used in the NV5600 transmission but it doesn't meet the GL-4 spec because its too thin. It could be used because its designed for all the GL-4 specs like yellow metal protection which the syncros require. Like I said before people tend to favor the light viscosity of oil because of better shift performance. The down side is that it will become to thin in the summer under working loads. 

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15 hours ago, 12vhunter said:

So Amsoil 75 90 gl4 marine gear lube would work? 

 

That's not the fluid I would run, as it's also a GL-5. 

 

The Amsoil fluid you want is the MTG 75w-90 GL-4. 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-transmission-and-transaxle-gear-lube-75w-90/?code=MTGQT-EA

 

On 11/4/2018 at 7:30 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

No longer exist anymore. Castrol Syntorque is no longer manufactured.

 

While the OE fluid may have been Castrol Syntorque, Syntorque is a fluid and not a specification (unlike syncromesh). The specification is MS-9070, which is a GL-4 fluid. There are several fluids available that meet MS-9070 so the "right stuff" does still exist. 

 

Many OEM's have fluid specifications that are separate from SAE ratings, such as Cummins CES20086 and CK-4 oil. That doesn't mean that something that isn't the OE fluid isn't properly spec'd.  

 

OEM's cannot require you to run a specific brand of fluid/filter/etc.. If they do, then they must furnish it. What they can do is require you run a fluid/filter that meets a certain specification, which in the case of the NV4500 is MS-9070. 

 

Even Mopar changed the P/N recommendation of fluid for the NV-4500 over the years, but it appears to always have been MS-9070.

 

On 11/4/2018 at 7:30 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

Yeah, I know the AMSOil claim to have an oil that meets all the spec comes at quite a price.

 

IIRC you paid about $265 (tax included?) for 5 gals of Delvac SAE50, and I can get 5 gallons of Amsoil MTG to my door for under $280 (tax/shipping included). Even if your price included tax the Amsoil doesn't come at "quite a price". If tax wasn't included one can get Amsoil cheaper. 

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I can now get 50 SAE maybe a bit below $200 a 5-gallon bucket now. Don't need the flashy "Mobil Delvac" name I can pick up any GL-4 50 SAE fluid and do the same thing. I can cut a ton off the price. Lots of other names out there without the price with the same spec.

 

At any rate it WAY cheaper than factory Mopar Fluid...

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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On 11/6/2018 at 7:38 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 Lots of other names out there without the price with the same spec.

 

Lots of fluids with the same spec are not created equal. 

 

Just look at oils, anything from cheap dino, cheap synthetic, or expensive synthetic all meet the same spec, but they are all quite different oils in terms of how they work and protect. 

 

If meeting spec was all that mattered we would all be running cheap Fram filters. 

6 minutes ago, Killer223 said:

 

I think that's the first place I've ever seen GL-4 and Syncromesh on the same bottle!

 

It's always been presumed that Syncromesh was a GL-4 based fluid, or a variant there of... I've just never seen an OEM state it. Even other Valvoline brochures for that fluid don't mention it. 

 

Valvoline spec's that fluid for both NV-4500's and NV-5600's....as well as the G-56. 

 

http://www.carquestprofessionals.com/catalogs/chemicals/V-8070 Manual Transmission Fluid Application Guide 6.6.13.pdf

Edited by AH64ID

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Ima thry it in my 95. Then when the 08 needs service I'll try it in the g56 as well. I really like the swepco711 in the g56. It's a toss up compared to the amsoil mtg.

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On 11/6/2018 at 6:16 AM, AH64ID said:

 

That's not the fluid I would run, as it's also a GL-5. 

 

The Amsoil fluid you want is the MTG 75w-90 GL-4. 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-transmission-and-transaxle-gear-lube-75w-90/?code=MTGQT-EA

 

 

While the OE fluid may have been Castrol Syntorque, Syntorque is a fluid and not a specification (unlike syncromesh). The specification is MS-9070, which is a GL-4 fluid. There are several fluids available that meet MS-9070 so the "right stuff" does still exist. 

 

Many OEM's have fluid specifications that are separate from SAE ratings, such as Cummins CES20086 and CK-4 oil. That doesn't mean that something that isn't the OE fluid isn't properly spec'd.  

 

OEM's cannot require you to run a specific brand of fluid/filter/etc.. If they do, then they must furnish it. What they can do is require you run a fluid/filter that meets a certain specification, which in the case of the NV4500 is MS-9070. 

 

Even Mopar changed the P/N recommendation of fluid for the NV-4500 over the years, but it appears to always have been MS-9070.

 

 

IIRC you paid about $265 (tax included?) for 5 gals of Delvac SAE50, and I can get 5 gallons of Amsoil MTG to my door for under $280 (tax/shipping included). Even if your price included tax the Amsoil doesn't come at "quite a price". If tax wasn't included one can get Amsoil cheaper. 

 

So the Amsoil MTG also is fine for the fiber syncros?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, cuda said:

 

So the Amsoil MTG also is fine for the fiber syncros?

 

I didn't think the NV-4500 used fiber syncros. 

 

 

Edited by AH64ID

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Posted (edited)

I thought all stock NV4500's had brass sycros with fiber coating then when NP went out of business all aftermarket rebuild kits have a new design brass only 3rd 4th and 5th syncro and no longer need the special formula mixed in. I have an original nv4500 and need to add a set of coolers so I am looking around at options I remember ruining a posi in the old days by not putting in the special clutch additive. 

Edited by cuda

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1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Both have carbon fiber syncros.

 

NV56000 and NV4500 do have different syncro's, hence the different fluid requirements. 

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1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

hence the different fluid requirements.

 

Might check your local Dodge dealer. As of lately, they are loading both NV4500 and NV5600 transmission with ATF+4 now. Must not be very different. :shrug:

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6 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Might check your local Dodge dealer. As of lately, they are loading both NV4500 and NV5600 transmission with ATF+4 now. Must not be very different. :shrug:

 

That's not something I've seen, thou I don't take anything to the dealership for routine fluid changes. 

 

Is there a TSB for this? If not, the dealership is just being lazy and not following the OEM fluid requirements. ATF4 does not superseded the OEM specs, unlike enigne oil changes. 

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Posted (edited)
On 11/3/2018 at 10:02 AM, 12vhunter said:

I went to the dodge dealer and he said that atf +4 had to be used in my nv4500.

He said it superceded the old oil and when he typed in the part number it kept coming back to the atf +4 so I'm wondering if I can use it.

 

Hence why the thread was started... 

 

I'll give you this one. I started digging the syncros are different. But I'm not sure what they are made of yet. Still digging. 

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Both have carbon fiber syncros.

 

2 hours ago, AH64ID said:

 

NV56000 and NV4500 do have different syncro's, hence the different fluid requirements. 

 

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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I found it at GM and amazon for $33 tax and I need 6 quarts so that is what I will do. I wish I could buy the amsoil then add a posi friction additive but that would be to easy right lol

 

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