47RE advice

[notlimah]

1 hour ago, IBMobile said:

Leave that relay alone, don't remove it.       

 

If this is for the lock up switch mod the  that relay needs to be removed and have a jumper wire put in its place. Is that what you’re suggesting he do @IBMobile?

[IBMobile]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 8:49 PM, IBMobile said:

A cheap and easy way to test if it is the transmission is to install a switch in the solenoid grounding wire.  This is the orange/black wire at the B connector, terminal 11 of the PCM.  You must be able to operate the switch inside the cab. 

 

Test drive the truck and when the problem occurs turn the switch to off. This will open circuit the ground causing the O/D solenoid to open and unlock the torque convertor clutch.  If, at that moment, the shaking stops then you know it's in the transmission.

 

@notlimah this is to unlock the torque convertor after the PCM commands it locked and the vibration starts    This function is the opposite of what a lock up switch does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[notlimah]

11 hours ago, IBMobile said:

 

@notlimah this is to unlock the torque convertor after the PCM commands it locked and the vibration starts    This function is the opposite of what a lock up switch does.

 

Gotcha! That’s why it sounded so familiar but slightly off 

[Ram Man 02]

On 11/24/2018 at 8:14 PM, WiscoRedkneck said:

So I don't have your problem but I'm struggling with a new built transmission having lock up troubles every once in awhile it would throw a code long short I found that one of two batteries had gone bad and voltage between the two batteries was not always stable or same voltage at each battery, waiting on warranty replacement battery to see if that fixed everything 100%.  For you though how bought u joints(mainly axles)transfer case and axles.  when was the last time you changed fluids in those systems could be low fluid levels.  Im sure you know but bad u joints cause poor 4x4 engagement and weird issues alot of times vibrations and weird crap affecting other systems.  Hope that helps

I didnt think to try isolating batteries as theyre only a year old. the system seams to have normal voltages but its a good point and would take me very little time to check that.

Truck currently has 168k. the whole rear end (dana 80 upgrade)was swapped in at 149k so it had fresh amsoil then and the drive shaft was balanced and got new Ujoints at that time.

transmission was originally rebuilt at 155k, the transfer case was out so it got new ATF+4 and the front drive shaft got new Ujoints and was balanced since it was just laying there and i figured why not.

The front axle got Spyntec lock outs added in 2012 and it had somewhere in the 130K's. both Ujoints were replaced and i doubt they even have as many miles as the rear end "locked in". front axle fluid was not changed at that time because it wasnt that old and had synthetic so i wasnt worried about it being broke down. last time i stuck my finger in there it still looked and smelled like new. Ill most likely change it next time the rear end needs a change.

I guess i dont consider any of that to be over due for maintenance but then again im here asking questions because i dont have the answers either.

 

I was going to have both drive shafts rebalanced this week just to make sure because multiple people have mentioned it.

14 hours ago, IBMobile said:

 

@notlimah this is to unlock the torque convertor after the PCM commands it locked and the vibration starts    This function is the opposite of what a lock up switch does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think i follow what your getting at. Basically this is what the truck does every time i drop under 45mph and the PCM tells the converter to unlock but this way im in control and eliminating the PCM from the situation?

 

is there any way the VSS could be the could be feeding bad info to the pcm or is this part of the toggle switch test?

[IBMobile]

9 hours ago, Ram Man 02 said:

this way im in control and eliminating the PCM from the situation?

 

You will be eliminating the lock up clutch in the torque converter from the situation'  The PCM will still be receiving speed signal from the VSS and in control of the governor solenoid.

 

9 hours ago, Ram Man 02 said:



is there any way the VSS could be the could be feeding bad info to the pcm or is this part of the toggle switch test?

No , if the VSS was "feeding bad info" The shift points would be of or with no info It would not shift at all.   This is not part of the test.

[pepsi71ocean]

On 11/7/2018 at 11:58 AM, Ram Man 02 said:

First let me say Hello to everyone. My name is Jeremiah. I own an 02 that i bought new. currently has 168k. I still love the truck but it has me very frustrated lately and I need some advice. This is going to get long winded but im going to do my best to describe whats going on. It has a Banks big hoss tuner thats 70hp and some 65hp injectors. fairly mild set up and im very happy with how it performs.

 

 

EDITED: when checking for ground cables, My drivers cable was failing a vDrop test. That was my lock up issue with my alternator. all of the cleaning will not solve that, and since you are in the snowy part of the world I would check that out, ans my cables had corrosion inside of them.

 

On 11/7/2018 at 7:10 PM, CTcummins24V said:

I dont have answers but I’m in the same boat, my truck has been at the shop for 2 months...

 

BOTH OF YOU GUYS

 

I had similar issues to yours, and my solution was to not let the engine rpm's drop to low. My theory on my issues is that Torque Reversals coming out of the engine were causing chatter in the clutches, this combined with low rpm heavy throttle application like boosting into a turn at 1,200rpm's would cause this chatter. My smarty S03 on certain power levels will do this on my truck. But I need to stay on top of the gearing. I have found that built automatics will like to run around in 3rd unlocked or locked when it should be in 2nd gear.

I had to up the line pressure in my 47re to get rid of that shudder, for me it felt like the the TC was slipping, or that odd wheel hop you get when your about to break traction. (or a bad driveshaft). If you manually downshift the truck when that happens see what your rpm's are, mine have to stay above 1400, if it drops much below that i get that shutter you guys are describing.

At 40mph I run around in 3rd, and when in 3rd my built auto loves to lock the TC even at 1,200rpms at l think 30mph? anyways need to manually downshift a gear and see if your issue goes away. This is a byproduct of running a transmission with a tight converter.

Edited November 28, 2018 by pepsi71ocean

[CTcummins24V]

I finally got my truck back the other week and now have a Goerend valve body, and all is good. I also had someone who does dodge 4 speeds/cummins/diesels all day long do the work. Previous shop did a good job on the actual tranny, but fell short on the VB.  

[pepsi71ocean]

2 hours ago, CTcummins24V said:

I finally got my truck back the other week and now have a Goerend valve body, and all is good. I also had someone who does dodge 4 speeds/cummins/diesels all day long do the work. Previous shop did a good job on the actual tranny, but fell short on the VB.  

 

Interesting. Did they say what needed to be tweaked inside the valve body?

[CTcummins24V]

2 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

 

Interesting. Did they say what needed to be tweaked inside the valve body?

 

No, I just gave the shop my old valve body, haven’t heard anything. New VB cured neck snapping shifts,  no 3 to 2 downshift when slowing and torque converter lock/unlock and premature TC locking. Truck drives very similair to the oem tranny.

[notlimah]

The joys of a quality VB!

[pepsi71ocean]

11 hours ago, CTcummins24V said:

 

No, I just gave the shop my old valve body, haven’t heard anything. New VB cured neck snapping shifts,  no 3 to 2 downshift when slowing and torque converter lock/unlock and premature TC locking. Truck drives very similair to the oem tranny.

 

Can i ask what shop did this work, I have a spare VB I may send off for a tune up and swap.

[gipperkid]

Not trying to get off topic, but has any used or know anyone that has used a RedLine Diesel Power transmission. 

[pepsi71ocean]

On 12/1/2018 at 12:56 PM, gipperkid said:

Not trying to get off topic, but has any used or know anyone that has used a RedLine Diesel Power transmission. 

 

I've never heard of them.

[CTcummins24V]

Out of Northeast Ohio?

[gipperkid]

1 hour ago, CTcummins24V said:

Out of Northeast Ohio?

 

Yes. In Wooster, Ohio. 

[Dynamic]

On 11/8/2018 at 6:14 AM, Ram Man 02 said:

codes were pulled less then a week ago and there were none at the time. i was hoping there was something so i had a direction to go.

 

apps is stock. should i look into one of those timbo units? i just discovered them while researching this problem and they seam to have good reviews.

 

i havent had a chance to recheck the alternator voltage. i work night so it makes it difficult until this weekend.

i too had thought that the worn stator could have been caused what ever this mystery issue is. i really dont want to keep pulling the transmission for the fun of it.

i do not know what the w-t ground mod is and i will check the alternator again this weekend.

i also do not know who dynamic is but with 2 recomendations i like them already. still trying to find my way around the forum...

I haven't been much help here because, to be honest, I don't have a real good grasp on what exactly it is that you're feeling. It's always tough (often impossible) to offer good advice based on an "it kinda feels like this" description. I'll offer this because I see it quite often on the second gen trucks:

 

Have you tried disconnecting the alternator and seeing if it still does it? Drive it so that you can get it to act up, then pull over, leave the truck running, and disconnect the small two-wire connector at the alternator. Drive it again under the same circumstances as was making it act up before and see if it continues to act up. If it quits doing it, you have a bad alternator. If it still does it, it isn't the alternator, and you can move on to search elsewhere. I've seen guys get really hung up on this and waste a lot of time here.

 

If that's not the problem and you are having converter slip/chatter issues, you'll need to find out why (obviously). First of all, whose converter and VB were used in the build? (I'm sure it's listed somewhere in here, but I'll just ask.) Was it a triple or a single disc converter? What kind of pressures were/are you seeing? What is your WOT 1-2 shift point set at?

 

I have, WAY more than once, seen people opt for a single disc converter during a build based on the whole "can't put a triple disc converter on a stock input shaft" myth, only to have the same slip/chatter issues as their stock converter had due to a poorly configured valve body.

[Ram Man 02]

Im still following this thread and i appreciate everyones input. i havent updated anything because i havent had anything new/positive to add. My motivation level has been poor the last couple weeks. I dont have a heated garage to work in and even now as im typing its 4* outside. I have tried a few peoples ideas with no success. brought it into a driveline shop. they balanced the drive shafts with no change. they were convinced its in the transmission but without paying for further diagnostics they dont know.

 

I decided to drive the truck back to the original transmission shop this morning with my friend Dan who has been helping me scan/test. he mostly works on GM stuff but he has rebuilt a couple automatics so between that and what ive been reading i feel like we have a decent grasp of what is going on. We must have been there for 1.5 hrs. Talked to the sales guy again. he was digging through paperwork trying to figure out what was replaced last month and what could still be going on. I threw several ideas mentioned here at him. Some he knew wasnt it and others didnt answer. we drove around for a while. He adjusted the TV cable up so my shifts are excessively delayed (in my opinion) and i dont like and will be putting back to stock later. we finally came back to their building. He went into the owners office for what felt like 10mins. When he came out said " transmission is going to have to come back out and we will go through it again" I asked what he thought it was and didnt really answer me.

 

On the way home Dan and i were talking about when i can get it into his heated shop and thursday 12-13 we will be pulling it out again. I should have it back sometime the following week. Im on vacation starting 12-20 so sometime christmas weekend i should have it back on the road and hopefully working. 3RD times the charm!!!!

 

 

On 12/5/2018 at 10:28 AM, Dynamic said:

I haven't been much help here because, to be honest, I don't have a real good grasp on what exactly it is that you're feeling. It's always tough (often impossible) to offer good advice based on an "it kinda feels like this" description. I'll offer this because I see it quite often on the second gen trucks:

 

Have you tried disconnecting the alternator and seeing if it still does it? Drive it so that you can get it to act up, then pull over, leave the truck running, and disconnect the small two-wire connector at the alternator. Drive it again under the same circumstances as was making it act up before and see if it continues to act up. If it quits doing it, you have a bad alternator. If it still does it, it isn't the alternator, and you can move on to search elsewhere. I've seen guys get really hung up on this and waste a lot of time here.

 

If that's not the problem and you are having converter slip/chatter issues, you'll need to find out why (obviously). First of all, whose converter and VB were used in the build? (I'm sure it's listed somewhere in here, but I'll just ask.) Was it a triple or a single disc converter? What kind of pressures were/are you seeing? What is your WOT 1-2 shift point set at?

 

I have, WAY more than once, seen people opt for a single disc converter during a build based on the whole "can't put a triple disc converter on a stock input shaft" myth, only to have the same slip/chatter issues as their stock converter had due to a poorly configured valve body.

 

I did not do that alternator test but i will try to do that this weekend. i have nothing to loose

 

I have no clue whos VB or converter they are using. It is a triple disc, and it does have a billet input shaft. I asked about line pressure this morning and all he would say is that its higher then stock. I dont know where WOT is set right now because things were changed this morning and even prior i couldnt tell you because i rarely run it past 2500rpm. I had the TV cable set according to my Haynes manual which is different then what he showed me this morning. i dont like the way it shifts now and will be putting it back to stock at a later date.

 

I believe what i am feeling is the same slip/chatter you are talking about. The fact that they want to go through the trans again tells me that there is something wrong with the valve body. I planned to ask what the issue was after they look it over.

[Dynamic]

It sounds like these guys are way over their skis on this deal. They don't seem to know what they built, or how it works. This is why I rail against "box builders" so openly. When guys just start simply ordering and assembling random parts just because they are supposedly "better than stock", you end up with a conglomeration of stuff that the "builder" often doesn't understand the function of. All they know is that the instructions said to put the blue spring in the 3rd valve from the end, and to drill hole "A" to .100", and hole B to .125", etc. They have no idea the function of that stuff, so when it comes time to diagnose something that's not right, blank stares ensue...

 

Rant over. My apologies... Stepping off of soap box...

 

What is your line pressure, and what does the curve look like from idle to WOT? What does line pressure do when the TC locks up and/or when OD engages?

 

I don't mention disconnecting the alternator as a "nothing to lose" type of operation. I build 200+ 4 speed Dodges every year, and the 2nd Gen trucks are notorious for this type of thing. I'll bet I see this at least 20-25 times a year. If you've got a converter cycling issue, the likely cause is a bad alternator, and disconnecting it is the quickest, down and dirty method for tracking it down.

 

Same with setting the TV cable. Setting it by adjusting the WOT 1-2 shift is the simplest way to get your TV cable right, especially with Lord knows what done to the valve body. Every "shift kit" that I know of modifies the TV regulator in some way, rendering any manual kind of irrelevant.

[pepsi71ocean]

7 hours ago, Ram Man 02 said:

Im still following this thread and i appreciate everyones input. i havent updated anything because i havent had anything new/positive to add. My motivation level has been poor the last couple weeks. I dont have a heated garage to work in and even now as im typing its 4* outside. I have tried a few peoples ideas with no success. brought it into a driveline shop. they balanced the drive shafts with no change. they were convinced its in the transmission but without paying for further diagnostics they dont know.

 

I decided to drive the truck back to the original transmission shop this morning with my friend Dan who has been helping me scan/test. he mostly works on GM stuff but he has rebuilt a couple automatics so between that and what ive been reading i feel like we have a decent grasp of what is going on. We must have been there for 1.5 hrs. Talked to the sales guy again. he was digging through paperwork trying to figure out what was replaced last month and what could still be going on. I threw several ideas mentioned here at him. Some he knew wasnt it and others didnt answer. we drove around for a while. He adjusted the TV cable up so my shifts are excessively delayed (in my opinion) and i dont like and will be putting back to stock later. we finally came back to their building. He went into the owners office for what felt like 10mins. When he came out said " transmission is going to have to come back out and we will go through it again" I asked what he thought it was and didnt really answer me.

 

On the way home Dan and i were talking about when i can get it into his heated shop and thursday 12-13 we will be pulling it out again. I should have it back sometime the following week. Im on vacation starting 12-20 so sometime christmas weekend i should have it back on the road and hopefully working. 3RD times the charm!!!!

 

 

 

I did not do that alternator test but i will try to do that this weekend. i have nothing to loose

 

I have no clue whos VB or converter they are using. It is a triple disc, and it does have a billet input shaft. I asked about line pressure this morning and all he would say is that its higher then stock. I dont know where WOT is set right now because things were changed this morning and even prior i couldnt tell you because i rarely run it past 2500rpm. I had the TV cable set according to my Haynes manual which is different then what he showed me this morning. i dont like the way it shifts now and will be putting it back to stock at a later date.

 

I believe what i am feeling is the same slip/chatter you are talking about. The fact that they want to go through the trans again tells me that there is something wrong with the valve body. I planned to ask what the issue was after they look it over.

 

WOT shift points are suppose to be about 2,800-3,000 rpm for a vp truck, and 2,500 for a Ppump. Do me a favor and follow this article, but don't change anything don't drop the pan. But as Dynamic stated we need information.

 

Your delayed shifting can be caused by a few things, but without some information were lost here. However, your shifts for 1-2 and 2-3 should be around 1800-2200 give or take. Now if you have a programmer like a smarty expect that to play with your settings, and or having a high line pressure without a fooler.

 

 

Don't make any adjustments but we need to see the line pressures at the accumulator through the test port. grab a 0-300 psi gauge from home depot for the test. It should take you 20 mins to hook up. Don't worry about dropping the pan or anything unscrew the test port and hook up the gauges. We need to see the line pressure.

Edited December 8, 2018 by pepsi71ocean

[Dynamic]

Oh boy... Yeah, let's not start cranking on the VB adjustments! That's a bit of a slippery slope, but I digress...

 

I don't really think you have a line pressure issue per se, but it would be nice to know what kind of curve you have, what kind of "shift kit" was used, and to make sure that your boost valve is functioning properly when lockup is commanded.