Let's Figure Out This 47re Problem of Mine.....

[TheGreatWhite]

SO as some of you may have seen, I bought a new truck, 2000 with a 47re, problem is it only goes backwards! So here's the story:

 

Kid I bought it from bought it about a year ago from the original owner to, and I quote, "to roll coal and do burnouts" and he did just that, and it took the tranny with it... kinda. It started out he said slipping a bit, so do what most people would do when they're trying to sell their truck and tranny starts slipping, burnouts! Couple burnouts later it wouldnt go above 25mph, so he took it to a buddies and they put more atf in it, I don't know why, and magically it doesn't move forward any  after they did that, and here I sit.

 

Now, for the symptoms:

 

Obviously no drive so no 1/2 either. When you shift from park to reverse, it locks up very well and strong, no problems there. Shift out of that into neutral and it unlocks of course, then you shift into drive and it doesn't lock up and lurch forward or anything, it's like it's stuck in neutral or something, but it does shift it into drive, I know that, I have checked that it's actually shifting it into drive on the side of the tranny, just isn't wanting to actually move forward. The kid I bought it from (not brightest so take this with a grain of salt) said the shift kit didn't work in it but never explained to me what he meant by that, probably because he didn't know what he was actually talking about. When trying to put it into tow/haul in park the light didn't come on so I can confirm that, however I don't know if you have to be in drive to do that or not, surely someone will know and I'll go do the right thing and report back.

 

Since I bought the truck I have done nothing to it, partially cause I have no space currently and partially due to me getting sick over Xmas break conveniently, so besides all I've told you, I know nothing more. As always anything helps and I would really appreciate all the help I can get. I'm honestly very scared about this truck because I know nothing about automatics and I don't wanna be in over my head with repairs cause of a childish kid who can't grow up. Again, thanks for the help!

[Mopar1973Man]

Time to bring in @Dynamic .

 

I'm sure Jon would know what to do.

[TheGreatWhite]

On 1/16/2019 at 6:28 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

Time to bring in @Dynamic .

 

I'm sure Jon would know what to do.

I called one of the tranny shops in town that is known for their good work and all, explained the situation and they went straight for, "oh yeah you need an entire rebuild, that'll be $3700." Thats not what I even called for either, I called to get my problem diagnosed and they go straight for that. I really do need someone who actually knows these transmissions and isn't trying to stiff me.

[kzimmer]

I couldn't find the original, but here's a diagnostic chart for the 47RE:

 

https://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197157#/topics/197157

 

Check "NO DRIVE RANGE (REVERSE OK) ". There are 7 possibilities there I think. To be honest, if you already know it's been abused, it might be wise to go through it and rebuild. Even if you manage to get it moving again, it's likely a bandaid that'll end up costing you more in the long run. There's a pretty good chance the trans will have to come out anyway, of course that's not definite yet, until you know more. But if it does have to come out, it's a good time for a rebuild, shift kit/VB upgrade, and a converter. 

 

Did the fella you bought it from attempt the shift kit by himself, and it quit working shortly after?

[TheGreatWhite]

10 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

I couldn't find the original, but here's a diagnostic chart for the 47RE:

 

https://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197157#/topics/197157

 

Check "NO DRIVE RANGE (REVERSE OK) ". There are 7 possibilities there I think. To be honest, if you already know it's been abused, it might be wise to go through it and rebuild. Even if you manage to get it moving again, it's likely a bandaid that'll end up costing you more in the long run. There's a pretty good chance the trans will have to come out anyway, of course that's not definite yet, until you know more. But if it does have to come out, it's a good time for a rebuild, shift kit/VB upgrade, and a converter. 

 

Did the fella you bought it from attempt the shift kit by himself, and it quit working shortly after?

The guy I got it from did nothing but put oil and ATF in it, hes not mechanically inclined in the slightest and honestly kinda an idiot. He just got a $11k transmission in his Duramax and is abusing it with no break in. I think its gonna have to come out regardless and I'm thinking of going with a Firepunk Competition Master kit:

 

https://shopfirepunk.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=121_128_184_206&product_id=101

Edited January 18, 2019 by TheGreatWhite

[Mopar1973Man]

Still I would discuss it with @Dynamic. There are mods you can't buy. Like my 46Re in my 96 Dodge has the clutch basket mill an extra 0.1 inch and stacked in extra clutch on direct and over drive. Then there is a spot in the bellhousing where you drill 2 oil holes for the clutches. Like I said you need to talk to him. These are tricks you can't buy in a kit.

[TheGreatWhite]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Still I would discuss it with @Dynamic. There are mods you can't buy. Like my 46Re in my 96 Dodge has the clutch basket mill an extra 0.1 inch and stacked in extra clutch on direct and over drive. Then there is a spot in the bellhousing where you drill 2 oil holes for the clutches. Like I said you need to talk to him. These are tricks you can't buy in a kit.

Alright thank you sir! Anyway I can get ahold of him or just wait for a response?

[Dynamic]

It's likely that you have a failed forward clutch. That would be the most common failure causing a "no forward gears" situation. There's no quick, cheap, easy way to fix that one. It will have to come apart...

[TheGreatWhite]

14 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

It's likely that you have a failed forward clutch. That would be the most common failure causing a "no forward gears" situation. There's no quick, cheap, easy way to fix that one. It will have to come apart...

Well hey! I can handle it coming apart, that isn't my big issue, although I am nervous cause that's just how I am until I get into it, I just need someone to help me diagnose it, instead of going straight to "it needs a complete rebuild." What would you recommend? If I need a rebuild I was looking at the Firepunk Competition Master rebuild kit, cause the truck has go go juice in it (HRVP, 125HP sticks, 62mm turbo, future Airdog 150gph, and future quadzilla). Could I just get away with some upgraded clutches and kolene steels? 

[Dynamic]

A transmission build is a complete package; from clutches to valve body, and everything in between. If you're asking it to do more than it was designed to do, you're going to have to build and upgrade everything accordingly. There are better clutches and intermediate band that can be used (which I do recommend), but most of the magic that will improve performance and longevity are in the valve body and torque converter. (Just as a FWIW, I'm not a big fan of kolene steels.)

 

As far as going straight to it "needing a complete rebuild", no shop (mine included) is going to go through the trouble of pulling the transmission out of the truck, and then patching it back together. If your forward clutch failed, other parts aren't far behind. Plus, in the case of the 47RE, there are SO MANY things that can and should be upgraded, it makes even less sense to patch it, and it's certainly nothing that I'd be willing to stand behind.

[TheGreatWhite]

44 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

A transmission build is a complete package; from clutches to valve body, and everything in between. If you're asking it to do more than it was designed to do, you're going to have to build and upgrade everything accordingly. There are better clutches and intermediate band that can be used (which I do recommend), but most of the magic that will improve performance and longevity are in the valve body and torque converter. (Just as a FWIW, I'm not a big fan of kolene steels.)

 

As far as going straight to it "needing a complete rebuild", no shop (mine included) is going to go through the trouble of pulling the transmission out of the truck, and then patching it back together. If your forward clutch failed, other parts aren't far behind. Plus, in the case of the 47RE, there are SO MANY things that can and should be upgraded, it makes even less sense to patch it, and it's certainly nothing that I'd be willing to stand behind.

Ok I understand. The transmission is fairly new, the kid was extremely rough on it, so I really don't think I need a new torque converter, and maybe a valve body cleaning since the shift kit supposedly didn't work. What do you think about that? I tried putting it into tow/haul in park and the light didn't come on. Can you do that only in drive or is something not doing something or is there anyway I can check and see if that light is just bad or something?

[Dynamic]

Honestly, it doesn't matter how new anything is if it's not built well, especially the torque converter. If you want to build something that you're not going to break or burn up, and that's going to perform well, then I can help you. If you're just going to try to patch it back together, I just don't recommend it.

[TheGreatWhite]

4 hours ago, Dynamic said:

Honestly, it doesn't matter how new anything is if it's not built well, especially the torque converter. If you want to build something that you're not going to break or burn up, and that's going to perform well, then I can help you. If you're just going to try to patch it back together, I just don't recommend it.

No I am looking to go through and do what needs to be done and get this truck rolling. Its a sweet truck and I don't think patching it together would do it any good. I'm just honestly trying to find a game plan on what to do with it. I 100% believe it failed prematurely due to the cooler. It has billet internals and everything in there, its a built tranny, I believe the stock cooler is to blame for its failure, and that's another thing I'm also trying to figure out, a cooler. I want a very well made cooler that isn't going to cost me $700 and I want a cooler that will get rid of the heat exchanger. I know its not even need since the new trucks don't have them on them, and its one less thing that will break. If you could help me out with those points I would be very grateful!

 

EDIT: This is the kit I was talking about getting: https://shopfirepunk.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=121_128_184_206&product_id=101

Edited January 19, 2019 by TheGreatWhite

[Dynamic]

I don't recommend removing the heat exchanger from the system. It's in there for a reason, and it works very well for what it was designed for. What is wrong with the stock cooler? Why do you feel that it caused the transmission to fail?

 

That is one of Lavon's pretty basic kits, using basically stock frictions, but it does look like he's got a TCS combo kit in there. I only use Raybestos GPZ frictions and a Raybestos Pro Series band in my kits. There are also no roller clutches, OD bearings, snap rings, L/R piston, stuff like that in that kit from Lavon. I'm not sure how thorough of a build you're wanting to perform, but that kit looks to intentionally be pretty basic.

 

 

[TheGreatWhite]

4 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

I don't recommend removing the heat exchanger from the system. It's in there for a reason, and it works very well for what it was designed for. What is wrong with the stock cooler? Why do you feel that it caused the transmission to fail?

 

That is one of Lavon's pretty basic kits, using basically stock frictions, but it does look like he's got a TCS combo kit in there. I only use Raybestos GPZ frictions and a Raybestos Pro Series band in my kits. There are also no roller clutches, OD bearings, snap rings, L/R piston, stuff like that in that kit from Lavon. I'm not sure how thorough of a build you're wanting to perform, but that kit looks to intentionally be pretty basic.

 

 

Cause the truck is far from stock and those tranny coolers are small and can't keep up. Trucks got HRVP 125 sticks and 62mm turbo

[Dynamic]

The stock system will more than keep up with a moderate setup like that. I don't think that was your issue...

[TheGreatWhite]

Just now, Dynamic said:

The stock system will more than keep up with a moderate setup like that. I don't think that was your issue...

Ok, guess the burnouts probably were it then from the previous owner..... Still would like a slightly larger one later on.

So you think I need a TC and Valve Body as well?

[Dynamic]

Yeah, abuse would be my first suspicion.

 

It really all depends upon what you have in there now. If you don't have a triple disc converter with a (roughly) stock stall speed with that turbo (I'd recommend a Goerend 17SS or DPC's equivalent), and a valve body calibrated to match it, then yes, I would put them in there. That's what's going to work best with that particular setup. You'll also want to make sure you are running a billet input shaft at that power level.

[TheGreatWhite]

2 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

Yeah, abuse would be my first suspicion.

 

It really all depends upon what you have in there now. If you don't have a triple disc converter with a (roughly) stock stall speed with that turbo (I'd recommend a Goerend 17SS or DPC's equivalent), and a valve body calibrated to match it, then yes, I would put them in there. That's what's going to work best with that particular setup. You'll also want to make sure you are running a billet input shaft at that power level.

It has billet internals and components in the tranny, I don't know bout the TC and Valve body and to be honest I have no idea what the stall speed does or is.

[Dynamic]

You'll want to check and see what you actually have in there. "Billet" seems to mean something different to everyone, especially someone trying to sell a truck. LOL...