Jelled diesel

[Silverdodge]

With this negative 30 bs diesel doesn't like to stay liquid anymore

[Dieselfuture]

I just posted this in the other thread, didn't realize you started this one. 

This is what treated fuel you get at stations looks like around here at 25 below. You can't see it in the picture but there are tiny little round balls of ice inside, they were all throughout. I'm guessing that's what plugs the filters. It wasn't gelled but it's definitely thick.

[01cummins4ever]

Generally treated fuel is mixing #1 with #2, diesel. Depending on the mix ratio is what determines the cloud point in which diesel will gell. Around here in Colorado it’s usually around 25 to 30% # 1 and they advertise it to being treated to  -15. Anything under that your basically on your own. I still don’t trust what comes out of the pump and add my own treatment, 

[AH64ID]

Fuel doesn't have to fully gel to stop flow at the filter, as you saw with all those solid objects in there. 

 

Typically the first unheated filter inline is where the fuel will gel if the fuel isn't properly treated/blended. 

 

Fuel heaters are life savers for unexpected cold weather that's below normal for a region. Most stations only treat/blend their fuel for normal local lows, so an abnormal cold snap or traveling to a new region can cause gelling. Ever read about Ram forgetting to turn on the 2nd fuel heater on the 13 Rams? It caused all kinds of gelling issues when winter hit. 

 

Yesterday I was traveling on local fuel and hit -9°F for a long stretch at 70 mph. I am not sure how cold my fuel is treated for, but I am pretty sure that it wasn't setup for -9°F. I didn't have any issues but I have 2 fuel heaters, one in each of my first two filters inline, and since installing those I haven't seen any gelling issues even with fuel that's not treated as well as it should be. I also have my one filter that's under the cab insulated to help the heater keep fuel moving. 

 

While driving yesterday I was watching my underhood temps with my Smarty EGT cold junction box and battery temp. With 3/4 flaps closed on my winter front my IAT's were ±30°F, coolant was ±193°F, battery temp was ±6°F and the junction box was ±0°F. The junction box is in the engine bay right above the steering shaft on the firewall. 

 

So even with a hot engine, mostly blocked grill, and hot exhaust the underhood temps were still VERY cold and one can see why even engine bay filters will gel up. 

 

Then for emergencies I carry 2 bottles of Amsoil Diesel Recovery. 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/fuel-additives/diesel/diesel-recovery/?code=DRCQT-EA

[Bullet]

I live in the mild dirty south so never an issue but I feel for you guys.  Been watching the weather up there and it's been crazy cold.  You guys stay warm up there...?

[Dieselfuture]

Feels warm now 0 out this morning, way better than -34 that was yesterday morning. Got to say that's not very common for where I live. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Even with temperatures down to -20*F this year. Still always seen fuel temperature about +62*F at the injection pump. To this day 366k miles and 13 winters with temperatures as low as -35*F in winter of 2017 I still never used one anti-gel product and still to this day never gelled ONCE. Big factor is my AirDog is not hanging on the frame. It tucked in behind the transfer case. Then my fuel line are not exposed to direct blowing wind. The fuel lines are inside the frame rail fro the AirDog forward (old pic). Then I've kept my stock filter can and fuel heater that most ditch. 

 

 

Now the local few that I've installed FASS 150 pumps for there is no choice but to hang it off the front bed bolt. Hanging in pump and filters in the direct wind, then in the damage path of the front tire where snow and ice are thrown on the pump and filters. I've heard plenty of complaints about the FASS 150 freezing up or gelling up at near zero. Typically the pump is in cased in a layer of ice and most times out of ten the fuse is blown. I will not suggest a FASS pump to anyone up here any longer because of the constant gelling and freeze up issues.

 

[015point9]

Must be a real joy to lay on your back when it's that cold to change a filter. Some of the temps you guys are experiencing you could come back inside the house put your hands in your freezer to warm them up

[Mopar1973Man]

17 minutes ago, 015point9 said:

Must be a real joy to lay on your back when it's that cold to change a filter. Some of the temps you guys are experiencing you could come back inside the house put your hands in your freezer to warm them up

 

I only change filters every 60k miles. Stock can and the AirDog 150 (er um now AirDog 165).

 

Won't do much good for the FASS guys if the suction line is plugged solid with gelled fuel or ice possibly.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[AH64ID]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Even with temperatures down to -20*F this year. Still always seen fuel temperature about +62*F at the injection pump. To this day 366k miles and 13 winters with temperatures as low as -35*F in winter of 2017 I still never used one anti-gel product and still to this day never gelled ONCE. Big factor is my AirDog is not hanging on the frame. It tucked in behind the transfer case. Then my fuel line are not exposed to direct blowing wind. The fuel lines are inside the frame rail fro the AirDog forward (old pic). Then I've kept my stock filter can and fuel heater that most ditch. 

 

Now the local few that I've installed FASS 150 pumps for there is no choice but to hang it off the front bed bolt. Hanging in pump and filters in the direct wind, then in the damage path of the front tire where snow and ice are thrown on the pump and filters. I've heard plenty of complaints about the FASS 150 freezing up or gelling up at near zero. Typically the pump is in cased in a layer of ice and most times out of ten the fuse is blown. I will not suggest a FASS pump to anyone up here any longer because of the constant gelling and freeze up issues.

 

 

I am not sure that filter location is to blame for gelling, but rather improperly treated fuel. 

 

Injection pump fuel temp won't keep filters from gelling. 

 

It doesn't surprise me at all that where you live and buy fuel you've never had an issue. 

 

With your AD being before your OEM fuel heater the fuel heater is basically useless. The first unheated fuel filter is where you would gel, and you have 2 of them before your fuel heater. 

 

FASS does make electric heaters for their pump, and I wouldn't personally have an aftermarket fuel pump without heater(s).

 

I do find it comical that you're bashing FASS for issues that have nothing to do with the pump, yet you've had two AD failures recently that are quality related, one that I think was less than expected life, and one VERY premature. AD also keeps upping the flow of their pumps, yet cannot supply a filter to match that flow. AD used to advertise 17K hours, IIRC, yet now they make no such claim.... hmmm... 

 

A layer of  ice on the filter would actually help insulate it, but the problem is the fuel is cold and it doesn't matter where under the frame the pump is, it's exposed to ambient temps and airflow. The only way to keep the pump out of the airflow is to put it in the tank, or well above the tank in the fenders.  

Edited February 1, 2019 by AH64ID

[Dieselfuture]

This morning at fill station getting coffee and heard a guy arguing with the clerk over diesel fuel and how it's treated, he must of gelled up someplace cause he was pissed off, all clerk could tell him was idk whatever it's stated on the pump is what it's treated too.  Luckily there were two registers open got my coffee and left, that's my story. 

[Mopar1973Man]

3 hours ago, AH64ID said:

I am not sure that filter location is to blame for gelling, but rather improperly treated fuel.

 

Then explain this one. Both trucks filled up at the same fuel station (Chevron in New Meadows, ID) the 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 with a FASS 150 gels up and my 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 does not gell up in the same weather and conditions. We were working on getting cows moved and hay moved. His truck gelled tight required to be towed. Mine was fine never had a single issue. The outside temperature was -20*F. Make you think...

 

3 hours ago, AH64ID said:

Injection pump fuel temp won't keep filters from gelling. 

 

True but I can see my fuel temperature at least. Yeah, I can't see the fuel tank temperature but with the return fuel from the heat being close to the engine coolant temperature should help. 

 

3 hours ago, AH64ID said:

With your AD being before your OEM fuel heater the fuel heater is basically useless. The first unheated fuel filter is where you would gel, and you have 2 of them before your fuel heater. 

 

 

 

True. For what ever reason I've never gelled. Same conditions and everything. I've seen more issues with the pumps hanging on the frame rail exposed. 

[Dieselfuture]

19 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Then explain this one. Both trucks filled up at the same fuel station (Chevron in New Meadows, ID) the 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 with a FASS 150 gels up and my 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 does not gell up in the same weather and conditions. 

Wonder if it has more to do with your draw straw and return to filler neck, keeps all fuel circulated in tank with warm return fuel. But at the same time I'm sucking and returning to basket which should help even more in winter but keep it warmer then I want in summer. But then again I never gelled ether, I simply don't drive it when it's that cold. No reason to take chances in my case. I always leave fuel in glass Juarez that she in the tank outside just so I know what would happen and if I had to drive that time I would add extra treatment to tank before leaving house. 

Edit

I think a true test would be if both of your trucks set outside all night and then see what would happen. If both gell then we'll know but if only his gells then your set up is definitely helping. That would mean you have enough time to warm fuel up with your set up and recycle it through before filters completely clog up. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Dieselfuture

[Mopar1973Man]

18 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Wonder if it has more to do with your draw straw and return to filler neck, keeps all fuel circulated in tank with warm return fuel. But at the same time I'm sucking and returning to basket which should help even more in winter but keep it warmer then I want in summer.

 

Both had standard draw straws and both returned in the filler neck. Both filled from the same fuel station. Since I was working for this gent I got fuel at the same time he paid for it. Same fuel different pumps with different mounting locations. Mine survived, his didn't, it gelled up. 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Silverdodge]

23 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Wonder if it has more to do with your draw straw and return to filler neck, keeps all fuel circulated in tank with warm return fuel. But at the same time I'm sucking and returning to basket which should help even more in winter but keep it warmer then I want in summer. But then again I never gelled ether, I simply don't drive it when it's that cold. No reason to take chances in my case. I always leave fuel in glass Juarez that she in the tank outside just so I know what would happen and if I had to drive that time I would add extra treatment to tank before leaving house. 

Sump with return here

[Mopar1973Man]

 

14 years...

[Bullet]

This is the first time I've ever been inside of a diesel fuel tank...it's much cleaner than my garage! 

[01cummins4ever]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Then explain this one. Both trucks filled up at the same fuel station (Chevron in New Meadows, ID) the 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 with a FASS 150 gels up and my 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 does not gell up in the same weather and conditions. We were working on getting cows moved and hay moved. His truck gelled tight required to be towed. Mine was fine never had a single issue. The outside temperature was -20*F. Make you think...

 

 

 

 

 

I would think that the other truck had pourley maintained fuel filter, or even running to fine of a filter. even water in the tank can have the same effect on clogging a filter that gelling does in cold temps. especially after filling a tank that has standing water in the bottom and your just stiiring it up and running it through the system.

 

I’ve had 2 instances in the last 3 years, the first was when I pulled the factory canister off the summer before to clean it and forgot to plug it back in  I was reminded one cod winter morning when my truck died ideling warming up in the driveway. The 2nd was a few weeks ago, same scenario but I was watching the fp gauge slowly go down, it was -15 and I knew what was happening. In a panic mode I ran in the garage grabbed a propane torch and started heating the filter canister and got good pressure back until I figured I had enough engine heat to help warm the canister. When day light came I was checking things over and found that I had a blown fuse for the fuel heater and also drained some out of the water separator valve and noticed I did have excessive water in the filter.

 

with my fuel boss running off the crank in front of  engine I have been tempted to insulate it just for gereral practice but with all the fuel volume running through I just don’t know if it’s nessesary, 

 

I usually just grab what ever is handy at the time for a winter front. sometimes it’s a mud flap stuck between the radiator and  charge cooler or a piece of card board, this year I grabbed the welcome mat off the front porch, fit perfectly  

[Mopar1973Man]

20 minutes ago, 01cummins4ever said:

I would think that the other truck had pourley maintained fuel filter,

 

Nope, it had less than 5k miles on the brand new FASS 150 pump and filter not a filter issue. Being both FASS and AirDog both run 3 um like I still do. 

 

21 minutes ago, 01cummins4ever said:

even water in the tank can have the same effect on clogging a filter that gelling does in cold temps.

Possible but strange that we both got fuel in the same fuel station and his gelled up. Mine continued to run. If there was a water issue would we both be seeing this? I can also let you know that Chevron Fuel up here the pumps are outfitted with water blocking filters.

 

Yeah, I've done my research on this too. I still think there was more the pump and filter is in the spray, water, snow and caused most of the issues. Being still to this day I've NEVER used any anti-gel product, never gelled up yet. Then I just replaced my AirDog pump head again (now with an AirDog 4G 165 GPH). Still in all checked my water separators there was less than a few drops of water in the fuel I drain out. I've only seen the WIF light once. This was long ago and early years of ownership and I quit using Mom and pop fuel stations. 

 

Still to this day I still lean on the fact of filters in the weather. When I'm completely out of the direct wind or slung snow. 

 

[Silverdodge]

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Nope, it had less than 5k miles on the brand new FASS 150 pump and filter not a filter issue. Being both FASS and AirDog both run 3 um like I still do. 

 

Possible but strange that we both got fuel in the same fuel station and his gelled up. Mine continued to run. If there was a water issue would we both be seeing this? I can also let you know that Chevron Fuel up here the pumps are outfitted with water blocking filters.

 

Yeah, I've done my research on this too. I still think there was more the pump and filter is in the spray, water, snow and caused most of the issues. Being still to this day I've NEVER used any anti-gel product, never gelled up yet. Then I just replaced my AirDog pump head again (now with an AirDog 4G 165 GPH). Still in all checked my water separators there was less than a few drops of water in the fuel I drain out. I've only seen the WIF light once. This was long ago and early years of ownership and I quit using Mom and pop fuel stations. 

 

Still to this day I still lean on the fact of filters in the weather. When I'm completely out of the direct wind or slung snow. 

 

My assumption it has to do with the inlet of that fass having a screen  if that screen plugs pre pump motor ur screwed there push pumps not suction