Dead truck P0216

[JAG1]

9 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Crazy seeing people ok with a Vp-44 failing at sub 300k miles. We have highway engines that go for 1 million miles no problem, injection pump gets rebuilt at that point, and yet it is ok for VP-44 to only get 150k to 200k miles at most? My 95 12V keeps going at 445k with no problems. I can run black sludge through it and it runs all day pulling the backhoe at 35k pounds total! I hop in my 2001 at 300k miles for a trip to the feed store and I get my second P0216! Even with 20 PSI at the VP-44. Son of A! 

 

Call me crazy, but this design is the worst I've ever seen in my short 47 years of working on diesels..........

Yes, but the VP44 is the easiest injection pump to change out. Esp. compared to changing the VE type. VP44 may even make up the shorter lifetime difference by having better tuning and mileage in real dollars and sense. You also get a truck that has more horses, is quieter in the cab, more comfortable and generally a lot more convenient.

Edited February 4, 2019 by JAG1

[Bulldog]

Sounds like it's time to pull out the spare P7100 and put it to good use........

[Dieselfuture]

8 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Crazy seeing people ok with a Vp-44 failing at sub 300k miles

I agree with what you're saying especially on a legendary Cummins  diesel. EPA had a lot to do with that and honestly if I can get 250-300k out of the pump I'm ok with that, on fly tuning compensates for longetivity for me. Now the pumps that lasted less than 100k is truly sad. I know there are a lot of variables as to why, but still. 

I do miss my 12 valve with p7100 to a point, it was simple and it just ran. Didn't have to worry about AC noise or any of that crap. The body was falling apart, I wanted to put that entire drivetrain into a Suburban but never got time to do it 

[dripley]

Here of late we have seen a few folks that got 250k 400kout of there oe pumps. Then we have many with short life spans on the oe pump. Mine only went 75k and @Mopar1973Mans only went 50k. Most of these on the old #2 diesel they were designed for. Longevity is bit all over the place.  

Edited February 5, 2019 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

Remember VE, VP44 and CP3 are all fuel lubricated. If the fuel is low in lubricity and poor quality filters used then these pump doesn't last as long. Being that Bosch design all these pumps for <460 HFRR fuels and today US fuels are all ~520 HFRR which enhances the wear. Hence why the 2 cycle oil theory came out. 

 

P-pump is the only oil lubricated.  I don't suggest P-pump conversion unless you plan on racing on a track or dyno. This is the only pump without dynamic timing. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Bulldog]

Unfortunately I'm used to working on highway tractor, and older designed diesels with inline injection pumps (Mercedes, Isuzu also) engines that go 1 million miles. My 12 valve was a scaled down version of those engines minus the sleeved block. Unlike other people I don't like being bent over for a new injection pump every hundred and fifty thousand miles @ $1200-$1400 a pop. They might be made of money, but even if I was Bill Gates I would not be spending that kind of cash on a failed pump design just on principle.

 

As a mechanical and electrical engineer I tell myself the following about the problem: Fuel lubrication of the injection pump fails? No Problem, don't lubricate with fuel! Can't pass EPA standards with the older style inline injection pumps? Then figure another way around it, without adding failure points to the design. Engineers are required to pull off miracles sometimes, we're used to it.

 

P7100 is my only logical option. I need extreme reliability. I could care less about anything else, even if it halved my horsepower, that's what I need. When I throw a gooseneck on the back of this truck and decide to go boar hunting in Texas, I need to know I will get there absolutely without issues. I can rebuilt this engine on the side of the road if I need to, but I don't want to, that's the point.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

Unlike other people I don't like being bent over for a new injection pump every hundred and fifty thousand miles @ $1200-$1400 a pop

 

Just consider CR engine owner ever 100k to 150k miles putting $4,000 worth of injectors in. $1,100 VP44 is nothing compared to a CR engine. Then VP44 are lasting 200k to 300k miles. 

 

DAP has a new revision of 028. Then it's less than a $1,000.

https://www.dieselautopower.com/bosch-027-vp44-fuel-injection-pump-standard-output-235hp-wire-tap-voids-1-year-warranty-vp44027year

 

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

DAP has a new revision of 028. Then it's less than a $1,000

Why is it say ho, but 235 instead of 245hp. 

[Mopar1973Man]

[dripley]

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

Why is it say ho, but 235 instead of 245hp. 

Maybe you can get a job proof reading adverts. I see a lot strange things like that these days.

[Dieselfuture]

6 minutes ago, dripley said:

Maybe you can get a job proof reading adverts. I see a lot strange things like that these days.

It's probably a mistake, unless I don't know something, which is very likely. 

I'm sorry for my observations, I was born that way  if I was dumber, I'd be very happy with everything in my life, but noooo I have to go look for things to deal with 

[dripley]

 

I am sure it is a mistake. Just another good reason to call before you buy. I van see you infront of a computer screen responding, "Dont these people know that you spell dumb a$$ with 2 ss and $$ signs".

Edited February 5, 2019 by dripley

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, dripley said:

 

I am sure it is a mistake. Just another good reason to call before you buy. I van see you infront of a computer screen responding, "Dont these people know that you spell dumb a$$ with 2 ss and $$ signs".

You lost me there, but I'll probably get it in few days. 

But I agree with what you're saying 

[dripley]

2 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

You lost me there, but I'll probably get it in few days. 

But I agree with what you're saying 

This is if you become a proof reader for a living. Not sure that is in your future Mr Future.

[Dieselfuture]

5 minutes ago, dripley said:

This is if you become a proof reader for a living. Not sure that is in your future Mr Future.

Lol ok I'm catching up, ya just never know. 

[JAG1]

I would rather purchase a rebuilt VP from the rebuilders and know which Bosch approved rebuilder did the work. Often a cheaper price distracts me away from such adverts and would rather talk with the people that are the hands on rebuilders and run the test stand for the VP44's. I like it when they take the time to show you around and a little bit about how it's done too.

Edited February 5, 2019 by JAG1

[Dieselfuture]

6 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I like it when they take the time to show you around and a little bit about how it's done.

That would be nice, but unfortunately not very many businesses do that anymore. 

[JAG1]

I figure if they have the time for you they have the time to do a better job and take pride in their work. I just don't like bean countin' money is everything attitudes. That gets me out of there and going somewhere else.

[pepsi71ocean]

26 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I figure if they have the time for you they have the time to do a better job and take pride in their work. I just don't like bean countin' money is everything attitudes. That gets me out of there and going somewhere else.

 

Conversely If the company makes customer service a priory and they are willing to help you out then your doing better. This is why i stick to DAP for my stuff for myself and other builds.

22 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Unfortunately I'm used to working on highway tractor, and older designed diesels with inline injection pumps (Mercedes, Isuzu also) engines that go 1 million miles. My 12 valve was a scaled down version of those engines minus the sleeved block. Unlike other people I don't like being bent over for a new injection pump every hundred and fifty thousand miles @ $1200-$1400 a pop. They might be made of money, but even if I was Bill Gates I would not be spending that kind of cash on a failed pump design just on principle.

 

As a mechanical and electrical engineer I tell myself the following about the problem: Fuel lubrication of the injection pump fails? No Problem, don't lubricate with fuel! Can't pass EPA standards with the older style inline injection pumps? Then figure another way around it, without adding failure points to the design. Engineers are required to pull off miracles sometimes, we're used to it.

 

P7100 is my only logical option. I need extreme reliability. I could care less about anything else, even if it halved my horsepower, that's what I need. When I throw a gooseneck on the back of this truck and decide to go boar hunting in Texas, I need to know I will get there absolutely without issues. I can rebuilt this engine on the side of the road if I need to, but I don't want to, that's the point.

 

I see your point, but to me even being reliable I'm more concerned about other issues on my truck then my VP-44. These trucks aren't built to be semi's and run 500,000 miles, and IMO the P-44 is the last of the reliable mechanical engines.. Jumping into the CR era cost goes up, maintenance schedules drop everything seems to become less reliable as time marches forward.

[mcknight77]

OK, I just ordered parts from DAP. VP44, FASS95 system, and ISSO fuel pressure gauge kit.