NV4500 temps with coolers

[cuda]

I installed some coolers from Genos garage. Now days there are a couple options, one is Fast Cooler that is a spacer that uses your original PTO cover, and the other is by Trans Cooler that is one piece and has fins inside. The fast cooler gives you 2 quarts extra when you install both and the Trans Cool only gives you 1 extra quart because of the fins inside taking up space that could be oil. I choose the Trans-cool version for 2 reason: 1: only one gasket to leak from instead of 2 per cooler. And 2: I thought the concept of having heat sinks inside may pull more heat to the outside. Who knows if it will and I might have burned myself out of an extra quart of cooling. Besides the quart mine give I added another quart in through the shifter tower. So six quarts of Red Line MT-85

It is real hard to direct compare before and after because the traffic for me living in the city changes so fast and so much. A 20 mile run to my shop this morning at 34 degrees outside with just the truck no trailer gave a case reading of 108 degrees with the factory mopar 85w oil that was getting real brown. The return run that had stop and go traffic but was near 60 degrees out was 108-110 on the steel case same point from the mornings measurement. But the new fins of the coolers heatsink where 97 to 113. And the close fin on the heatsink by the exhaust was 132 and 150 on the exhaust. I am adding a link to a thermal image and the regular image for clarity. The addition of using the Red Line 85 made no difference shifting wise from how it was before it is the exact same.

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Edited March 14, 2019 by cuda

[Mopar1973Man]

Bingo...

 

 

That the kind of heat spread I got on mine WITHOUT the coolers. The bottom is much cooler than the top. The fluid on the very top is the hottest. Even my cheap HF IR temp gun shows the same thing. But mine is still running below 100*F yet. This is one reason I'm not fond of the coolers must stick the temp probe at the bottom and reports these super cool reading but the top is much hotter. 

 

I can see maybe 130*F on my worse day so for through the winter but check the bottom of the gearbox is typically much cooler. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[cuda]

I can't remember the guys name but I have seen his posts on here and other sites but he installed coolers and a heat blanket (not heat rap) I bought the same ones but I need bigger clamps to install them. I think they will really help with the close case contact and heat. I am pissed I didn't buy the clamps so that I could have got it all done in one shot but now I will have something to compare it to. lol

[Mopar1973Man]

@KATOOM is the one. Now that I've tagged him he'll show up.

 

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That was fast... LOL 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[cuda]

Yep thats it Katoom

[KATOOM]

Glad to offer any help...  What are you looking for?

 

In regards to the thermal image, what did you use to see that?

[cuda]

The camera is a flir e40 but it has been hacked up to their best unit a e60 (simple file change via ftp) It is a real accurate quality camera I use it to find water leaks in basement foundations and a few other construction tasks. Yea Katoom I read your post saying you had to buy bigger clamps and I just spaced it out and din't buy them. Clamps are not cheap either.

[Dmaney]

I think the fast coolers are a great thing when your towing alot. Daily driving you will never see the benefit. My truck is getting a set this spring so I can compare numbers to last summer delivering hay. 

[KATOOM]

I just want to point out that I have a temperature probe mounted in the drivers side Fastcooler for a dash mounted temperature gauge.  I have confirmed the gauges accuracy with a laser temp tool at the Fastcoolers and the transmission housing and found that if the gauge reads a specific temperature then the entire transmission will test very close to the same temperature with the laser tool.  The only times I will see differing temperatures is if I try to take a reading off of materials which are of a glossy/shined/polished surface, whereby the readings will be off.  I'm not sure if the thermal camera is affected by those variables as well...

[Haggar]

Katoom,

 

Any infrared measurement is factored by the emissivity of the surface.  This is mainly a color thing, but is also actually affected by surface finish. 

 

In the calculations (internal to the device) the emissivity has a range of 0.0 (a mirrror, no infrared thermal emission) to 1.0 (perfect black body, perfect infrared thermal emission).  most inexpensive units you cannot adjust this value for actual emissivity.  Its generally in the range of 0.95 and that is good enough. (there are other problems with inexpensive ones, how they average the pixels, spacing between the pixels etc)

 

A good test is find an area that has been out in the sun for a bit with both a white and black surface.  Measure the temperatures of both.  (black will be closer to the 1 white will be closer to the 0)  see what "temp" each are knowing that both are really the same temperature.   This will give you an idea of the range your "temps" are based on reality. 

 

Infrared is great for relative temperature measurement.  It lacks a lot for absolute temperature measurement. 

 

(what is fun  play with a mirror sometime, when you have a fire in the fireplace or such.  The infrared gun/camera reads the reflected temperature, not the actual temperature of the mirror.   You can hold a 1,000 degrees in your hand!!!!)

 

TL;DR  there is a couple degrees difference between your measurement and the actual temperature.  The shinier it is the more likely its off.

 

GL   HTH
 

Hag

[kzimmer]

All of our IR devices (steel mill) that measure heat on raw steel use .88 for emissivity. Typically 1500-2500 °F for our application.

[Mopar1973Man]

20 minutes ago, Haggar said:

n the calculations (internal to the device) the emissivity has a range of 0.0 (a mirrror, no infrared thermal emission) to 1.0 (perfect black body, perfect infrared thermal emission).  most inexpensive units you cannot adjust this value for actual emissivity.  Its generally in the range of 0.95 and that is good enough. (there are other problems with inexpensive ones, how they average the pixels, spacing between the pixels etc)

 

A good test is find an area that has been out in the sun for a bit with both a white and black surface.  Measure the temperatures of both.  (black will be closer to the 1 white will be closer to the 0)  see what "temp" each are knowing that both are really the same temperature.   This will give you an idea of the range your "temps" are based on reality. 

 

Funny... Harbor Freight IR temp guns come with this adjustment as well. Black colors seem to be hotter typically. 

[kzimmer]

25 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Funny... Harbor Freight IR temp guns come with this adjustment as well. Black colors seem to be hotter typically. 

 

That makes sense. Two different materials that are the same temperature may measure as different temperatures if you check them both with the same emissivity setting.

[Mopar1973Man]

So in my case, I measure the NV4500 on the driver side (away from the exhaust pipe) and measure on the case which mine is a reddish color and measure from bottom to top. Still in all without coolers at all and the gear ratio (final) that I'm running it super rare for me to break over 100*F yet. Like yesterday I touched 105*F but had to be sitting in traffic to get that warm.

If I measure I pull over, leave the engine run and measure on the driver side. Starting at the bottom work to the top. Still in all the top is the warmest place on the case right near the top of the fluid.

 

The absolute hottest place to measure is right near the gear teeth. This requires the engine off and probe thermometer and place the probe near the gear teeth. 

[cuda]

Got my thermal blanket installed and did more testing no major improvement but the top fin is now very close to all the others in temp and the trans on the passenger side cooled almost 10 degrees. So it is worth it for any help from the big exhaust monster.

[KATOOM]

If by "thermal blanket" you mean an exhaust blanket to cover the exhaust pipe next to the transmission...then you wont see any differences until you're pulling something heavy.  The exhaust pipe isnt that hot during normal around town and light freeway driving.  But pull a long grade with a heavy trailer behind you and your 900* - 1200* exhaust pipe will definitely affect the neighboring transmission temperature.  At least thats what I found to be true...

[cuda]

I bought the same one you had linked to when you bought yours, I bought 2 but because of clamps and the transmount I could only use one from the turbo back. But on my camera the top heatsink was way hotter than the rest actually looked like it was heating the tranny instead of cooling it. Now with the blanket on the nearest to the exhaust heatsink is very close to the others temp wise so I am getting benefit from this. Thanks for the link from your past it is what I used instead of measuring etc.!

Oh I aslo bought the Mag-Hytec dana 80 cover too I just have not put it on yet, did you have to do the jb weld thing on yours?

 

[greed]

I have a Mag-Hytec on my rear diff. After watching the videos Gale Banks did, I'm seriously considering going back to stock. I had the rear rebuilt once due to a spun carrier bearing and a spun pinion bearing. I don't remember if I had the Mag-Hytec on at that time or not.

[KATOOM]

1 hour ago, greed said:

I have a Mag-Hytec on my rear diff. After watching the videos Gale Banks did, I'm seriously considering going back to stock. I had the rear rebuilt once due to a spun carrier bearing and a spun pinion bearing. I don't remember if I had the Mag-Hytec on at that time or not.

 

Strangely random post for a transmission cooler thread.  But...if you take the time to watch all of Gales differential cover videos you'll notice that he actually reveals nothing and merely trolls the mindless followers.  No facts, no data, no information other than speculation, conjecture, and a whole lotta hype to better prepare you for the new Banks differential cover soon to be introduced.  And in doing all that, he also took stabs at other popular differential cover companies who already dominate just to better open up the playing fields for the market he wants to jump in on.  Pretty pathetic in my opinion...

Nonetheless, this thread is about the NV4500 transmission coolers.

 

[Haggar]

I am with Katoom on this. (and also on the strange de-rail of the original topic)

 

I think Gale has some interesting theories, but I think there is no update on the video because the data he recovered did not support his hypothesis. 

 

I understand he is worried about the "stirring" of the fluid as it hits that abrupt stop in the casting.  But that amount of "work" is NOWHERE near the amount of heat generated from the sliding action of the hypoid gears.  That shearing and torque transfer is by far the greatest heat generator.   Now since we added some more fluid to the system,  the amount of time it takes to get that much fluid hot and try to keep it there....  I just think it didn't/doesn't add enough work to be a problem.  I really think in all you are better off.  (I have a new diff cover to put on and will still do it.) 

His worry about the new higher fluid level has some merit.  You will lose hp (and therefore efficiency) the deeper the oil is you need to drag anything through.  But the new higher level may bring the axle tubes more into the cooling situation.....  the efficiency "lost" may still be very small compared to the power required just to turn our ring gears, huge long axles and the awful unpsrung rotating mass on the ends (tires and wheels especially on a dually.....)  Anytime you drag a rotating mass in a sump of oil, foaming is a possibility.  Our axle lubes are designed with anti-foams in them....  I cannot think of a single on road automotive or industrial differential that is not dependent on splash lubrication.  This is not a hydraulic pump or valve application where air entrained in the fluid can be catastrophic. I think that entrained air between the hypoid teeth is not an issue because the viscosity of the fluid and the large contact area allow the teeth to compress or expel the air, but the teeth do not come into metal to metal contact. 

 

TL;DR   I don't think Gale got the results he expected and so never reported them, or is inspecting his system/test rig to find out what is "wrong" with it.  I am pretty certain other losses in the system create more heat and make his worry so small as to not be noticed in the data.

 

HTH
 

Hag