5 Speed Clutch Pedal Travel

[Greenlee]

I know this question has been asked in the past but I couldn't find the info. I have a 1999 Dodge Ram Cummins 2500 5 speed and to engage gears the pedal has to be pressed into the floorboard carpet. I have tried to sell this truck without any takers. There is over $10,000 in parts and labor above the price I paid for it. I have about $4K and my brother when he owned it put another $6k in it. Some of the costs in parts was not needed at all, Turbo rebuilt by Mid-West Turbo when nothing was wrong with it, Fluidamper added, Hi-Torque starter, Ceramic disc brakes and so on when good stock parts are more than good enough for a 20 year old ride. My brother is not a diesel mechanic but does work on his vehicles. He was trying to establish reliability because he was on the road all the time working. So now I took it back to try and sell. I refuse to just give it away for tree trimming and yard work, some offers are crazy.

I plan on keeping it and driving it. Problem is I wear leg braces so my ankle does not flex. I find my foot has to be turned sideways to press down the clutch pedal and that causes my toe to press on the brake at times when shifting. I'm going to get a second clutch pedal, bend it, form it around the pedal in the truck to sit at the same level or angle up a little depending on how it does pushed all the way down and the flatness of the floor board where it will hit. This would give me some more area and keep the toe of my shoes away from the brake pedal. I don't know if this is normal or not but the pedal has to be on the floorboard to put it in gear and shift gears. There are no leaks, fluid looks great but the travel to the floorboard seems a little too much. I know there is no adjustment but what else could be going on to cause this? I hate to think the clutch or pressure-plate is worn out but that's where I'm heading. It would make sense that it's the reason for the excessive pedal travel. I hate to think that another dime has to be spent on this Dodge being so far in the hole already. If it is then point me in the direction for a new clutch, pressure-plate, etc. I hope I can make it all work. Thanks

[Dieselfuture]

For some reason I thought the rod on the pedal that connects to master is adjustable. It's been awhile since I changed my hydraulics, can't remember. Have you ever changed your hydraulics, could there be air in that's system. I followed @Mopar1973Man instructions and bench bled mine before installing it. I think my pedal has to be pretty close to the floor to shift but not all the way to the floor. Like you said could be something with the clutch. 

As for putting money in the truck and not being able to get it out of it when you sell it, that is totally normal. The only way to deal with that is put some miles on it and make it worthwhile, keep fixing things up or let it go to the highest bidder and move on. Vehicle is never a good investment. When I used to mess a lot more with cars and spent money on performance parts, the rule of thumb was if you can get half of what you paid for it, was considered good. If you got more than half then you're doing really well. That's just how used car parts and all that stuff works in general. Of course when we have it we think it's worth a lot more. 

[Dmaney]

I don't believe they are adjustable in stock hydros. Aftermarket may be different. I have to pretty well put my clutch pedal to the floor on my 5 speed. Was that way with the old clutch and the new one. Just put a stock clutch and stock hydros in dads 05 w/ NV5600 and still have to put the clutch on the floorboard just as you did with the original. The clutch fingers on the pressure plate were worn bad with 246k on it and the clutch would start engagement with the pedal maybe 2" off the floorboard. So if your clutch engaging about half way up your pressure plate is still in good shape. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Don't use adjustable hydros. Very common for people to adjust them poorly then hyperextend the throwout bearing through the pressure plate fingers causing damage. You best off leaving the stock hydro installed but just freshen them up. I've talked to South Bend about this and the hyperextending the throwout bearing more common than you think.

 

Typically because people buy the adjustable hydro to attempt to change where the pedal engages the clutch at. These are typically the people the end up hyperextending the throwout.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Dieselfuture]

So for someone with a brace they can use adjustable hydros to have engagement higher off the floor and put a 2x4 on the floor under pedal to prevent from hyper extending. 

[Mopar1973Man]

I would rather reverse that around. Stay with stock hydros then use a block on top of the pedal to push the pedal to the floor. This way no worry about over adjustment. The blocked pedal still gets the pedal to the floor as needed. It could be done pretty trick by removing the rubber pedal pad and the having a slip on frame block that locks with two bolts by tension. Yeah I can see it in my mind just can't explain it well.

[Dieselfuture]

[Greenlee]

On 3/28/2019 at 6:29 AM, Dieselfuture said:

For some reason I thought the rod on the pedal that connects to master is adjustable. It's been awhile since I changed my hydraulics, can't remember. Have you ever changed your hydraulics, could there be air in that's system. I followed @Mopar1973Man instructions and bench bled mine before installing it. I think my pedal has to be pretty close to the floor to shift but not all the way to the floor. Like you said could be something with the clutch. 

As for putting money in the truck and not being able to get it out of it when you sell it, that is totally normal. The only way to deal with that is put some miles on it and make it worthwhile, keep fixing things up or let it go to the highest bidder and move on. Vehicle is never a good investment. When I used to mess a lot more with cars and spent money on performance parts, the rule of thumb was if you can get half of what you paid for it, was considered good. If you got more than half then you're doing really well. That's just how used car parts and all that stuff works in general. Of course when we have it we think it's worth a lot more. 

I see reading down the page that it is not adjustable, good to know. I plan on driving it since it doesn't make sense at my age and with my medical history to invest in anything else. I'll get the pedal figured out and modify it to shift better for me. I know it will sell if I lower the price but like you said why not just drive it, you know what's been done or what's left. I hope there isn't anything for a while that needs attention. Thanks

[kzimmer]

On 3/28/2019 at 5:29 AM, Dieselfuture said:

could there be air in that's system.

 

I second that, maybe bleed the lines to rule it out.

[Greenlee]

8 hours ago, Dmaney said:

I don't believe they are adjustable in stock hydros. Aftermarket may be different. I have to pretty well put my clutch pedal to the floor on my 5 speed. Was that way with the old clutch and the new one. Just put a stock clutch and stock hydros in dads 05 w/ NV5600 and still have to put the clutch on the floorboard just as you did with the original. The clutch fingers on the pressure plate were worn bad with 246k on it and the clutch would start engagement with the pedal maybe 2" off the floorboard. So if your clutch engaging about half way up your pressure plate is still in good shape. 

This is great news. Mine must be fairly normal because it goes to the floor board just like you described for your 5 speed. Even with new parts the pedal is the same. Thank you for the reply

5 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Don't use adjustable hydros. Very common for people to adjust them poorly then hyperextend the throwout bearing through the pressure plate fingers causing damage. You best off leaving the stock hydro installed but just freshen them up. I've talked to South Bend about this and the hyperextending the throwout bearing more common than you think.

 

Typically because people buy the adjustable hydro to attempt to change where the pedal engages the clutch at. These are typically the people the end up hyperextending the throwout.

I understand what you are saying Mike, best to leave it like it is. Hope you are healing up good.

[dripley]

I drove some with a leg brace after tearing my Achilles tendon in my left leg. I experienced the dilemma as @Greenlee. Really had to twist my to keep from catching the brake pedal and getting the pedal to the floor. Bending the pedal he describes will be necessary as he describes above and block on might solve his issues.

[Greenlee]

3 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

So for someone with a brace they can use adjustable hydros to have engagement higher off the floor and put a 2x4 on the floor under pedal to prevent from hyper extending. 

 

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I would rather reverse that around. Stay with stock hydros then use a block on top of the pedal to push the pedal to the floor. This way no worry about over adjustment. The blocked pedal still gets the pedal to the floor as needed. It could be done pretty trick by removing the rubber pedal pad and the having a slip on frame block that locks with two bolts by tension. Yeah I can see it in my mind just can't explain it well.

The brace keeps my ankles from rolling out and my feet rigid, no flex to the side or ankle movement up and down. I see the wheels turning on this one.

[dripley]

2 minutes ago, Greenlee said:

 

The brace keeps my ankles from rolling out and my feet rigid, no flex to the side or ankle movement up and down. I see the wheels turning on this one.

Exactly what my Bledsoe Boot did to my leg. No movement anywhere below knee.

[Greenlee]

5 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

 

I second that, maybe bleed the lines to rule it out.

No air in the lines but I guess I could bleed them out or let someone bleed them out just to make sure, It sounds like most of the manual transmissions have the same characteristics with the pedal going to the floor or close to it.

Just now, dripley said:

Exactly what my Bledsoe Boot did to my leg. No movement anywhere below knee.

Did you have to turn your foot sideways to get on the pedal to push it down? I'm going to post a picture of this when I get done with it. Simple and clean and as long as it works no worries.

10 minutes ago, dripley said:

I drove some with a leg brace after tearing my Achilles tendon in my left leg. I experienced the dilemma as @Greenlee. Really had to twist my to keep from catching the brake pedal and getting the pedal to the floor. Bending the pedal he describes will be necessary as he describes above and block on might solve his issues.

I understand completely what you were dealing with, I got rid of some tailgaters staying too close. Didn't mean to hit the brakes but it is easy to do with braces on. I'm not going to bend the pedal, I'm going to get a second pedal to sit next to the existing pedal towards the door. I'll bend it and twist it back around so it will saddle the clutch pedal with a second piece wrapping around both held in place with set screws. I see it in my head now just can't explain it. WOW that sounds familiar if I don't say so myself. lol

[dripley]

10 minutes ago, Greenlee said:

P

Did you have to turn your foot sideways to get on the pedal to push it down? I'm going to post a picture of this when I get done with it. Simple and clean and as long as it works no worries.

Absolutely. What you describe is identical to what experienced. But for me it only lasted a few weeks.  Awkward just does not describe it.

[Greenlee]

11 minutes ago, Greenlee said:

No air in the lines but I guess I could bleed them out or let someone bleed them out just to make sure, It sounds like most of the manual transmissions have the same characteristics with the pedal going to the floor or close to it.

Did you have to turn your foot sideways to get on the pedal to push it down? I'm going to post a picture of this when I get done with it. Simple and clean and as long as it works no worries.

I understand completely what you were dealing with, I got rid of some tailgaters staying too close. Didn't mean to hit the brakes but it is easy to do with braces on. I'm not going to bend the pedal, I'm going to get a second pedal to sit next to the existing pedal towards the door. I'll bend it and twist it back around so it will saddle the clutch pedal with a second piece wrapping around both held in place with set screws. I see it in my head now just can't explain it. WOW that sounds familiar if I don't say so myself. lol

Now is when I wish I knew how to use Fusion 360 to throw it out there,

5 minutes ago, dripley said:

Absolutely. What you describe is identical to what experienced. But for me it only lasted a few weeks.  Awkward just does not describe it.

Well my wife and kids (grown) aren't too happy about me keeping the Dodge because it's not automatic and I can't walk without falling if I don't have the leg braces on. You can't look at your feet every time you shift it's worse than texting and driving to me. One back fusion blazed the trail for me to end up with so many issues. When a doctor says he will have you up and running in 6 weeks....get out as fast as you can.

37 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

 

I second that, maybe bleed the lines to rule it out.

Your right, it's an easy thing to do and takes the guess work to know if there is air in the system or not. thanks

[Mopar1973Man]

While you are there look at everything if there is any wetness behind the master on the inside of the firewall or see any wetness in the pin side of the slave cylinder I would consider just replacing. I do not suggest the pre-bled system majority of the time people end up rebleeding the system all over not to mention you can save more on doing it yourself with separate master and slave cylinders.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Greenlee]

On 3/31/2019 at 8:30 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

While you are there look at everything if there is any wetness behind the master on the inside of the firewall or see any wetness in the pin side of the slave cylinder I would consider just replacing. I do not suggest the pre-bled system majority of the time people end up rebleeding the system all over not to mention you can save more on doing it yourself with separate master and slave cylinders.

I'll look at that as soon as I can, an existing bone spur on my right heel has taken over. I guess from the longer walking to the different ball fields where my grandson's play TEE-Ball and Baseball. I am sorry to complain about things but sometimes you feel like you are backing up and that is a state of mind you have to work past or it will move you back. I am thankful for every response from the few questions I have at times. My injectors and gauges did not sell so I am going to put them on the truck and drive it. Smoke or no smoke when I get the pedal modified to work for me. I need a set of tires and have got 50K out of the Firestone's on it now. I guess that's not too bad. I'm thinking of buying the brackets and mounting the new Raptor 150 on the frame with a new harness. Should last me the rest of my life. At least there is always something to work on or a project in mind, never a dull moment. Thanks everyone.

[dripley]

4 hours ago, Greenlee said:

I'll look at that as soon as I can, an existing bone spur on my right heel has taken over. I guess from the longer walking to the different ball fields where my grandson's play TEE-Ball and Baseball. I am sorry to complain about things but sometimes you feel like you are backing up and that is a state of mind you have to work past or it will move you back. I am thankful for every response from the few questions I have at times. My injectors and gauges did not sell so I am going to put them on the truck and drive it. Smoke or no smoke when I get the pedal modified to work for me. I need a set of tires and have got 50K out of the Firestone's on it now. I guess that's not too bad. I'm thinking of buying the brackets and mounting the new Raptor 150 on the frame with a new harness. Should last me the rest of my life. At least there is always something to work on or a project in mind, never a dull moment. Thanks everyone.

I have had to deal with heal spurs. You can complain all you want and I understand. I would not wish them on any one. The walk from the bed to the toilet in the 5th wheel was excruciating and it was only 2 steps away. 

 Good luck with the truck.

Edited April 1, 2019 by dripley

[Greenlee]

On 4/1/2019 at 6:46 PM, dripley said:

I have had to deal with heal spurs. You can complain all you want and I understand. I would not wish them on any one. The walk from the bed to the toilet in the 5th wheel was excruciating and it was only 2 steps away. 

 Good luck with the truck.

Thanks Dripley, Funny story about bone spurs, a Boilermaker brother came by to bring an old desk from the 1960's so I could make a work table out of it. I'm hobbling one step and a drag of my right leg at a time and told him I had a flare up of an existing bone spur that is on my heel touching the Achilles Tendon. The pain is beyond explanation and nobody can assist you trying to walk because you are clumsy anyway. My friend told me about a bone spur he had about 12 years ago shaped like a chicken beak pushing through a tendon on the bottom of his foot. Now he is out of town working so options are limited. The orthopedic doctor he was going to see was not approved by insurance so he went to a podiatrist who looks at it and says he can help him with it. Now if you are anyone has ever experienced a spur you know that touching it is out of the question, you don't even want a fly to land on it. So the podiatrist pulls out a device with 2 metal or hard plastic roller balls with a little gel to make it move easy. He said he almost wet his pants but he got through it, rolling that device back and forth over the spur. No comfort at all. Next visit in 2 days, same treatment. This continued for a couple more visits and then he gave my friend the roller ball from hell and said you continue this until it goes away. After a couple of weeks it started feeling great but he said in the process it felt like a piece of glass broke and the spur flattened. What happened is it was growing through a tendon. After he flattened it he has had no issues for 12 years now. Long before he came over that afternoon I limped to the kitchen and there was a little bag of garbage that my wife said she would take out when she got home. So I picked it up and was heading for the garage. As I opened the garage door I stumbled and went the length of the garage to the garage door before catching myself. This crazy move extended and stretched my ankle, the pain was horrible and all I could think is my wife is going to kill me. About 30 minutes later I noticed my heel and foot still hurt but it felt better. I'm thinking that it separated the tendon from the bone spur and actually helped. So I didn't sleep much last night but when I got up I was walking better still dragging my foot but not as bad. I just don't know if I can stand getting a hard object and rubbing across my heel. Dripley, no one else would understand any of this so if you get it that's all that counts and I'll get back on the topic. Good talking with you.