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keithb7

Towing...Your Experience Is Appreciated 98.5 24V 2500

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18 hours ago, 015point9 said:

Haven't seen him or JAG1 on here lately. 

 

18 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Those two are out running around the highways traveling from place to place. 

@JAG1 , @IBMOBILE-JEN  and I left JAG1 house over a week ago and are now camping at Mono Village in the Bridgeport, CA area with a bunch of other guys that are regular campers with us.  

 

I've been towing for thousands of miles with the RV 275 injectors, Edge EZ set on the second of three levels, and the waste gate actuator set to open at 30 PSI with no smoke and lots of power for pulling the 8,000 lb 5th wheel.    

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11 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

 

@JAG1 , @IBMOBILE-JEN  and I left JAG1 house over a week ago and are now camping at Mono Village in the Bridgeport, CA area with a bunch of other guys that are regular campers with us.  

 

I've been towing for thousands of miles with the RV 275 injectors, Edge EZ set on the second of three levels, and the waste gate actuator set to open at 30 PSI with no smoke and lots of power for pulling the 8,000 lb 5th wheel.    


Are you running on a stock transmission?

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3 hours ago, IBMobile said:

 

@JAG1 , @IBMOBILE-JEN  and I left JAG1 house over a week ago and are now camping at Mono Village in the Bridgeport, CA area with a bunch of other guys that are regular campers with us.  

 

I've been towing for thousands of miles with the RV 275 injectors, Edge EZ set on the second of three levels, and the waste gate actuator set to open at 30 PSI with no smoke and lots of power for pulling the 8,000 lb 5th wheel.    

I too will be at Mono Village later this year for a month. and I tow a loaded 5th wheel  about 12,000 lbs. RV275, edge ez, waste gate elbow and HX35w turbo, and AirDog lift pump. pull good enough for most everything, took it across country and the Sierras every year. also have a DTT built transmission. Always can ask for more but it does the job. 4.10:1 gears and 35 in tires. That is where I stand.

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13 hours ago, gipperkid said:

Are you running on a stock transmission?

I had it rebuilt about 50k ago without any major upgrades. 

 

9 hours ago, Ed ke6bnl said:

I too will be at Mono Village later this year for a month.

We come up here twice a year.  Ten days around the second week in May and ten days at the beginning of October. 

 

@015point9 ,Thanks for thinking about a good pie shop for us.  JAG1 one said he thinks he knows about the pie shop on the west side of Crater Lake but we had come down rt 97 on the east side.  

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47 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

I had it rebuilt about 50k ago without any major upgrades. 

 

We come up here twice a year.  Ten days around the second week in May and ten days at the beginning of October. 

 

@015point9 ,Thanks for thinking about a good pie shop for us.  JAG1 one said he thinks he knows about the pie shop on the west side of Crater Lake but we had come down rt 97 on the east  

Did you see my PM?  Need info when we make it your way.

Late summer best for fresh berries anyways

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An update:

 

After the initial tow test with the trailer, I was also not happy with the brake performance. I pulled the rear drums to find them at the end of spec. I had an "oil-misted" wheel cylinder. The front pads and rotors seemed ok. I proceeded to replace rear cylinders, shoes, all springs and hardware. New drums and 2 new rear brake lines. After setting everything up, seemed good. Certainly I feel safer now.

 

This darn aggressive long hill I must deal with, now has me concerned about front brakes. They are getting quite hot. The trailer brakes are working very well. I can lock them up. New tires on the trailer. I go down the hill in first gear, auto tranny. I brake as little as possible however need to maintain a comfortable speed. The powertrain offers little to hold back the speed on the descent. I don't ride the brakes, and additionally I manually hit the brake controller to put a little more to the trailer brakes when braking. Also keep in mind, the trailer is not loaded up yet. The trailer is well within spec of the truck's capacity.

 

The previous owner did the rotors and pads about 2800 miles ago. I have no idea what quality rotors or pads were used. 

What are my options here? I am not feeling comfortable about this hill every time I leave home with the trailer in tow. Shall I consider premium HD long life brakes? Drilled and slotted rotors? High performance brake pads? Will this help dissipate some heat? Maybe the rotors on there now are economy cheap crap. I don't know. The heat is going to kill them. Does anyone offer an exhaust brake for my 98.5 24V? A feasible solution? 

 

Do 1T trucks have larger brakes? I assume so. Wondering, maybe I should have went 1T. What about if I pull over at the top of the hill and engage 4WD low range? Likely this will hold me back, however at what expense to the drive box gears and bearings? Stress them to destruction eventually? Ideas, tips are welcome.

 

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You cant beat zn exhaust brake for hills. But you will need some tranny for the auto. The TC needs to be locked while using it. Exactly what you need I would to defer to the more knowledgeable on the subject.

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3 hours ago, keithb7 said:

This darn aggressive long hill I must deal with, now has me concerned about front brakes. They are getting quite hot. The trailer brakes are working very well. I can lock them up. New tires on the trailer. I go down the hill in first gear, auto tranny.

 

@keithb7, you posted, "I live up a mountain. The road home is pretty steep. It's a slower 2 lane winding road. Speed limit  30 mph. It's about 3.5 miles from the start, to my driveway. I gain about 1100 feet elevation over the 3.5 mile climb home.  Average road grade over the 3.5 miles is 10%.".

 

I could be wrong, but my math shows that your average grade is 6%, which is still steep and would be of concern. 

 

In my opinion, your 4 speed automatic transmission is the root of all your complaints.  Even if you beef up the transmission and make it lock up in all four gears, install bigger brakes, and equip your truck with a exhaust brake, the transmission still only has four gears - of which one gear is an overdrive.  Not only that, first gear and second gear ratios are 2.45:1 and 1.45:1 respectively - not much holding back power. 

 

Below are gear ratios of most Dodge Cummins transmissions.  You will see that the 5 speed manual and 6 speed manual transmission are much more suitable for towing.  The 6 speed manual transmission has four underdrive gears with more suitable gear ratios compared to only two underdrive gears in the automatic transmission.

 

1454111141_TransmissionRatiosforCumminsPoweredEngines.JPG.c30b5d7044f4ff1ae131ba62f32e9053.JPG

 

 

Also, I don't think you posted your differential ratio or tire size which can impact performance.  For example, a 3:55 differential ratio with larger than stock tires will negatively influence towing uphill and downhill.

 

- John

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33 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

Also, I don't think you posted your differential ratio or tire size which can impact performance.  For example, a 3:55 differential ratio with larger than stock tires will negatively influence towing uphill and downhill.

 

VERY IMPORTANT! :iagree:

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Exhaust brakes... the brand that Mopar man posted I would stick with that brand,  when we were traveling around the u.s. very few places even heard of a BD brand that I have ... and you might want to have your transmission set up so your exhaust brake will work in 2nd gear, being it's an automatic.  

  Just stuff to think about. And of course all that stuff takes money.  

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John you make some real valid points. The tranny gearing is likely suspect. I have the 47RE. First ratio is 2.45:1

Like you said, hardly ideal. Rear end diff ratio I am not 100% sure.  I'll get under there and see diff tag. My tires are stock. Engine is stock.

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2 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I'll get under there and see diff tag. My tires are stock. Engine is stock.

 

If you have 3.55 gears...

 

Now for towing if you want a killer setup, drop the stock 265/75 R16 tires and switch out for the 245/75/ R16 you'll find you have way more torque and cooler EGT's. Then the exhaust brake works even better with the 245's vs the 265's. 

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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If I have 3.55:1 rear end, and first gear is 2.45:1 is my final ratio 6:1 when in first gear?

If I had 4.10 gears, and retained the same tranny, in  first at 2.45:1, is my new final drive ratio 6.55:1?

 

Hmm. I wonder how much effect that may have on the hill, both up and down?

Edited by keithb7

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It will definitely help going up the hill but coming down is a different story. Even with my 6 speed I dont get alot engine braking with a load on the truck. My 5th wheel weighs 15k and it will push right thru motor on a 6% grade. I always tried to tackled them at 30 mph because of that, pre exhaust that is.

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25 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

If I have 3.55:1 rear end, and first gear is 2.45:1 is my final ratio 6:1 when in first gear?

If I had 4.10 gears, and retained the same tranny, in  first at 2.45:1, is my new final drive ratio 6.55:1?

 

I think you added your ratios; you need to multiply.

 

2.45 x 3.55 = 8.70

2.45 x 4.10 = 10.05

 

My personal preference for safely towing in hills is with a manual transmission and an exhaust brake.  The manual six speed gives you the best performance.   You will have a gear for every kind of hill (up or down) and you will always be operating the engine in an RPM range that will be do the job efficiently.

 

One option for you is to sell your truck and buy a truck with a manual transmission and install an exhaust brake.  This would be a very effective way to solve your issues with your truck.

 

The other option is to continue to put money into your existing truck by beefing up the transmission and torque converter and installing larger brakes.  You can only hope that whoever builds the transmission for you can lock up the torque converter in every forward gear with controls that are simple to operate.  In the end you still have only four gears to operate the truck and you will never optimize the performance capability of the Cummins engine for going up and down hills.

 

- John

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4 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

The manual six speed gives you the best performance. 

 

Not really. The top two gears are the same. Is just there is an extra gear in the bottom. Just consider the thought my current setup (NV4500 and 245's) I'm in 4th gear at 25 MPH

 

NV4500 - 5th gear - 0.75

NV6500 - 6th gear - 0.73

 

NV4500 - 4th gear - Direct

NV5600 - 5th gear - Direct

 

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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17 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Nope. Most can't tell they are 245's.

20190410_113449.jpg

Just yanking your chain. 

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I have to add this, the 6 speed is really good with load I pull. I gross 23k and hsppy I have it. A good rebuild is going to suck but still dont think I would trade it. They extra is nice to have when you want it.

 

Now just a bit of topic, when I did have a 5 speed I was always going for 6th gear on the interstae. I even still go for 7th gear in my 6 speed occasionally. Any body else have this disease or is it only found in chickens?

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6 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Yup... :lmao::lmao2:

I was afraid of that.

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1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Not really. The top two gears are the same. Is just there is an extra gear in the bottom. Just consider the thought my current setup (NV4500 and 245's) I'm in 4th gear at 25 MPH

 

NV4500 - 5th gear - 0.75

NV6500 - 6th gear - 0.73

 

NV4500 - 4th gear - Direct

NV5600 - 5th gear - Direct

 

 

Sure the top two gears are the same - so is first gear.  But, sometimes there are conditions such as @keithb7's 3.5 mile, 30 mph hill that makes having three gears (instead of two) to work with between first gear and the 1:1 gear a real benefit whether going up or down that hill with varying loads.  Sort of like the benefit you mentioned about improving the final drive ratio when you went from 265 tires to 245 tires.

 

So, I still think the six speed transmission is the best choice for towing - just my opinion.  Personally, I wish there was at least an eight speed manual transmission that would just drop right in.  And yes, @dripley, I also occasionally go for 7th gear.

 

- John

Edited by Tractorman
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