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keithb7

Towing...Your Experience Is Appreciated 98.5 24V 2500

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Posted (edited)

I own a 1998.5 24V 2500 long bed extra cab, with canopy. Pretty well stock powertrain.  I installed a new HX35W turbo a couple of months ago. Currently running a Herko fuel lift pump that gives me18 psi at idle. Maintains 10 psi pulling a decent load up a hill. Today I installed an A-pillar gauge package. So far boost, lift pump pressure, and exhaust temp gauges are functioning. The transmission temp gauge, I'll hook up later.

 

This January we purchased a 23 ft RV trailer. We've been getting it ready for camping season. Empty weight of the trailer is 4,950 lbs. Dual 3500 lb axles under it. I just installed new tires on the trailer and upsized them to a higher weight rating. I installed a new heavy duty, square bar type equalizer hitch. It feels good, I feel safe on the hi-way. It tows nice.

 

What has me a little weary are a couple of things. The added gauges on the truck keep me well informed. So much so, maybe I was better off ignorant and clueless. LOL. It's a stock truck as mentioned. The truck never had exhaust pyros when new. How much concern should I have about exhaust temps with this truck? Under hard acceleration, unloaded I can get exhaust temp to about 1050-1100F.  I live up a mountain. The road home is pretty steep. It's a slower 2 lane winding road. Speed limit  30 mph. It's about 3.5 miles from the start, to my driveway. I gain about 1100 feet elevation over the 3.5 mile climb home.  Average road grade over the 3.5 miles is 10%. You cannot get a run at the hill. My 24V 5.9, to me feels like its working hard to tow my trailer up this hill.  Watching the exhaust temps, I backed off the throttle and maintained 950F to 1000F while climbing the hill home. I was at about 8-10 psi boost.  My speed was about 15-18 MPH. As mentioned this is all new to me as I prepare the trailer for camping season. The cooling system in the truck handled the climb well. Fuel lift pump pressure steady at 10 psi. Engine steady at about 1900 to 2100 RPM up the hill. I did not actually time the the climb up the hill, but doing the math its about 12-13 minutes up.

 

I feel like I am working the truck damn hard. There are no other hills around here that I know of like this. I suspect I can comfortably tow the trailer most anywhere except back up the hill home. 

Towing with my Cummins today is new to me. Is this normal? The engines are pretty hearty it seems. Maybe I am just not used to hearing the engine grunt so hard. Should I be concerned or am I being too cautious. Just work the SOB, that's what it's deigned to do?

 

Your experience and comments are appreciated.

 

Here is the rig as driven today.

 

spacer.png

 

 

 

Edited by keithb7
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Posted (edited)

"much concern should I have about exhaust temps with this truck?"

 

 I don't shut mine off till Ive idled down to about 350 or below ...if it's an auto transmission I try to idle mine down in neutral after a long pull.  As trans fluid doesnt circulate in park, what I understand.  

 

 I don't go over 1200 egts when  going down the road.  Some folks go higher.

 

mine is stock with 9,000 pound trailer.  No problems but sure is gutless.  We normally just fall inline with class 8 trucks on hills.  

Edited by 015point9
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Posted (edited)

I try to keep it under 12.5 accasionaly I gone over 1400 for a split second.

 

Lift pump at 10psi is alittle low to me. I idle at 20 cruise at just barely under 20 empty and pull grades around 15-18..

 

A stock truck will be going slow up most grades with any kind of decent weight.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Evan

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I think the most important gauge to you is going you be the tranny temp. In stock trimyou will be hard pressed to o er temp the engine. 1100* is not bad on the engine, matter of fact it will burn any carbon off the injectors. 1200 or 1300 is not bad on it pulling grades like you describe. Now if you start seeing temps like that on flatter ground I would be cocerned.

 

I towed with mine in stock trim for the first 5 years while under warranty pulling a 12k pound 5th wheel. No gauges. They are pretty low on power but will pull house. Big thing to remeber as @015point9 mentions is cooling them down when you stop. Especially if you are parking the truck after that climb. Your tranny is taking the beating. I idle until the egt reads 300 or less. Not sure what temps to bring the tranny to. No need to stop after pulling a grade like yhis if you are moving on, it will cool itself just fine on flatter ground.

 

Bottom line is you are not going hurt the truck pulling that trailer. Just take reasonable care of it and watch the gauges.

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Posted (edited)

In stock form the only thing that can really get too high is the trans temp. 

 

EGT’s should be fine where ever they are stock.  Get some miles towing and then you have a baseline. 

 

Where is the pyro installed? 

 

Good rules led of thumb for modified engines is 1250° continuous and 1350° momentary if the pyro is pre-turbo. 

 

Stock engines can, and  will, run hotter due to stock timing being more retarded than a modified motor. Retarded timing means more heat out the exhaust and less heat absorbed by the piston/cylinder... thus safer at higher EGT’s. It’s the equivalent of running rich in the gasser world. 

Edited by AH64ID
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EGT limits are like @AH64ID mentions at 1,250°F. I will warn though running that hot will make the coolant temperature rise quickly. Like your doing running 1,100°F is much easier for the engine and keep the heat down. 

 

As for the trailer forget the empty weight. Post up the GVWR that is the number that is meaningful. No one tows an empty RV. Everyone packs it with cargo, food, water, propane, etc. That number is the most important.

 

I've also got to ask how many miles on the truck? If you have over 100k miles on the stock injectors you most likely due for replacement. Just because the truck still runs fine doesn't mean the injectors are still spraying at the proper pressure. This will make for hotter EGT's.

 

A good tuner also helps a bunch with towing EGT's as you advance timing you EGT's will fall and the engine runs cooler and more efficient. 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for your feedback so far folks. The truck has 156,000 miles. Stock injectors. The trailer as mentioned is 4,950 dry. Loaded up to the max, (which we hope I'm not doing) it's rated at 7,7670 lbs GVWR. Meaning I have room for 2,720 lbs of cargo, water etc. I will do some research on injectors. Thanks for the tip. 

 

My pyro is installed at the exhaust manifold collector right before the turbo mount flange. Slightly off center, toward the rear of the engine.

 

I assume a tuner is required to advance the stock timing? I will pursue to the tranny temp gauge hook up next.

Edited by keithb7

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I would still weigh the trailer, but either way it’s well within what the truck can handle. 

23 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

EGT limits are like @AH64ID mentions at 1,250°F. I will warn though running that hot will make the coolant temperature rise quickly.

 

Stock can run hotter safely. 

 

I really haven’t noticed too much of a difference in coolant temp vs EGT’s, just total power vs coolant temp. More power means more heat, regardless if the EGT’s are 1000° or 1200°. 

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Posted (edited)

Stated dry weight according to the label 6,588 pounds. As I said, no one tows an empty RV.

 

Actual weight.

Image result for mopar1973man rv scale

 

29 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

My pyro is installed at the exhaust manifold collector right before the turbo mount flange. Slightly off center, toward the rear of the engine.

This is correct.

 

29 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I assume a tuner is required to advance the stock timing?

Best choice would be Quadzilla Adrenaline but requires the effort of making a good tune. Caned tuners like Smarty or Edge Comp and Edge Juice are only designed for stock trucks and not exactly a good choice for towing. Quadzilla will give the best bang for the buck but again you have to make the time to build the tune and do the testing as well. Not something you can do overnight.

 

29 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I will pursue to the tranny temp gauge hook up next.

For either manual or automatic transmissions is a good thing. Like myself, I bought 2 sets of weld in bungs so I can have one sensor for the transmission and then the second bung will go into the rear differential. Got to use a single transmission temp gauge for both sensors on a toggle switch. Also, ISSPro EV2 gauge comes with a USB programmable warning light and programmable relay to switch on and off devices (optional). I've got my gauge set to 220°F warning light temp.

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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Moparman...

 

Diff sensor... where did you weld it in at? 

Darn, that was the deciding factor why I bought a mega dollar diff cover about 3 years ago.    I couldnt decide if I would have enough clearance or mess up flow of diff oil, so I bit my tongue and went with a fancy cover with temp prob hole built in. I'm certainly not going to go back to stock but where did you install at? 

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Gear down and let it work.  A stock truck was designed for the power you have.

 

Dont expect it to more than it should, like tow hugely heavy at 65 mph uphill and you be fine.  

 

Replacing wear items like injectors is a good moveif you have a lot of miles on the truck.

 

A new tc and vb would help put the power you do have down, but that is getting into expecting more than a stock truck can do.

 

 

If the trans dies then do a decent build on the trans.

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Sounds like you're just experiencing the stock truck power. It'll tow what you got, but it won't be anything fancy.

 

Like @Me78569 said, you start replacing injectors, changing out your torque converter and valve body, tuner, things liven up real quick!

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, gipperkid said:

An Edge EZ will wake the truck up. Simple plug and play.

What do you think about edge ez and rv275 injectors?  

My truck about same as op's.  I Dont need to be 1st one top of hill, but my stock 01 cant get out of it's own way.

Edited by 015point9
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1 minute ago, 015point9 said:

What do you think about edge ez and rv275 injectors?  

My truck about same as op's.  I Dont need to be 1st one top of hill, but my stock 01 cant get out of it's own way.


That is the go to towing combo and to wake the truck up. A little better fuel mileage as well. A few members are running that setup.

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40 minutes ago, gipperkid said:


That is the go to towing combo and to wake the truck up. A little better fuel mileage as well. A few members are running that setup.

Thanks that's my next big step after dynamic works his magic on trans

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2 minutes ago, 015point9 said:

Thanks that's my next big step after dynamic works his magic on trans


Getting a stage 3? 

I am wanting to have John @Dynamic build my trans. Still saving some funds. He sometimes does a sale occasionally. Undecided on whether I should have a billet output added.

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RV275's and an Edge EZ is OK. 

 

I ran an Edge Comp and Stock injectors, RV275 Injectors, and +50 HP Injectors for over 10 years. Good combo but the +50 HP were too smokey and could be cleaned up very well. Again "Canned Tuners" like Edge and Smarty are only good for Stock injectors. Once you start using big injectors then the smoke gets out of control easy. 

 

Then I swapped up to the Quadzilla Adrenaline and +75 HP injectors extremely clean tuner and injectors. Now jump up to +150 HP injectors and can keep the smoke to a controlled haze more or less. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

RV275's and an Edge EZ is OK. 

 

I ran an Edge Comp and Stock injectors, RV275 Injectors, and +50 HP Injectors for over 10 years. Good combo but the +50 HP were too smokey and could be cleaned up very well. Again "Canned Tuners" like Edge and Smarty are only good for Stock injectors. Once you start using big injectors then the smoke gets out of control easy. 

 

Then I swapped up to the Quadzilla Adrenaline and +75 HP injectors extremely clean tuner and injectors. Now jump up to +150 HP injectors and can keep the smoke to a controlled haze more or less. 

 

IBMOBLE got me started on this set up.  Think I'll go that way...and let them tweak some other stuff when I get down his way.   

Haven't seen him or JAG1 on here lately.  Was going to tell him about excellant pie shop on way to crater lake.  

As many postings on here about tuners...I cant figure out my blue tooth on my phone

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11 minutes ago, 015point9 said:

Haven't seen him or JAG1 on here lately.

 

Those two are out running around the highways traveling from place to place. 

 

12 minutes ago, 015point9 said:

As many postings on here about tuners...I cant figure out my blue tooth on my phone

 

Not much to figure out. Turn on Bluetooth. Turn on the device you are going to pair with. Now, wait till the phone report that it has a paired device. Now anytime that device is one the phone will pair up with that device automatically. That how an Android smartphone will work.

 

As for iOS phones, I know they will transmit data on Bluetooth hence why the WiFi head for Quadzilla.

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I am still running the RV's with the comp and while not big power house it does the job. You wont be sorry with the EZ and RV's unless the power bites you. I have to admit, knowing what I know today, that I would have bought the Quad instead had it been available when buying the Comp. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, dripley said:

 I have to admit, knowing what I know today, that I would have bought the Quad instead had it been available when buying the Comp. 

I got my quad when I first got the truck simply for more hp claims and no hot unlock you had to pay extra for. It worked good but had few issues in surging department and at that time was a canned tuner for the most part. You still had some adjustments, but nothing like now. It became what it should of been from beginning after @Me78569 worked his magic. More than on one occasion wanted to sell the quad and get an edge for Simplicity and something that worked, for whatever reason I stuck with the quad, I'm very glad I did now, can't see me having this truck without it.

 

Edit 

@Me78569 would quad work with 4bt, not even sure if they make vp44 for 4 bt, I should know but I don't.

Edited by Dieselfuture
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My first was a Banks Ottomind back in 05. It came with an exhaust system, gauges and what not. 75 hp, tapped the pump and no adjustments. Simplicity I was for that. It crapped the bed and I went with Comp. Still simple. The Quad appears a bit complicated, but reading what I have here has helped me understand it better. I still think for me it will be a challenge. But now if I win raffle........

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