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DKfummins

Quadzilla V2 reading inconsistent boost under load on 1999 24V.

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Hey Guys, I've tried researching this but haven't had any luck, I have a 1999 24V installed into a 2008 F350. Im currently running the Quadzilla adrenaline V2 in the truck. The issue I've been running into is my boost readings on the quadzilla side are inconsistent and cause the truck to ramp up then fall on its face, and over again. I say quadzilla side because i tapped into the J1939 connection, ( 3 Pin Deutsch connector ) and monitored what my Dodge ecu was seeing and what my Ford PCM was seeing. (My wiring harness are separate (ford /Dodge ) from one another and are NOT intertwined and are not sharing information from the same sensors.) But my readings from both the PCM and ECU are the same and both of those are reading what the current boost is but the quadzilla on bluetooth is reading 0 then jumps to 16 then jumps back to 5 then 0 causing confusion for the Quad. Ive tried pulling the little tab off the quadzilla that is inside the box, that didn't change anything, I've checked the connections and they seem fine. The only reading coming back inconsistent is the Boost reading, all other sensors are reading what they're supposed too. Ive also sent the Quadzilla back to get it tested and they said it tested fine. Im starting to run out of ideas on what it might be, any suggestions would be appreciated.  

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The quad is reading boost from the ecm from 0-16 psi above 16 psi it reads directly.  

 

If you are seeing jumping sub 16 psi then that is what the ECM is outputting on j1939 2 wire from the ecm for the Boost PID.

 

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I understand that the quadzilla reads on the J1939 up until 16 psi, after 16 psi it reads directly from the sensor but regardless where its reading from , i could be pushing 20 psi but the quad won't see it, it will still read something entirely different then what the actual number is. both my MAP could be reading 28 and the quadzilla will say 17 psi then jumps to 28 then to 0 and so on, ill work on getting a video link or something posted so you can see what I'm talking about 

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Data log the issue please.

 

If you are sub 16 psi then the quadzilla is simply passing through what the ecm is outputting on the data bus.

 

If you have this issue sub 16 psi ever then the ecm is either not getting good signal from the map sensor or not outputting for some reason.  

 

 

The ecm output is always  used so at 10 psi the quad is only getting boost from the ecm, but at say 20 psi then the quad is getting 16 psi from the ecm and 4 psi from the sensor.  

 

So if your map value is 28 then drops out it is very likely an issue with either the sensor or the wiring.

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Posted (edited)

I uploaded the video of the data log to YouTube   

  

 

now my scan tool is programed to show Inhg but its actually reading PSI, i have compared it to my Ford Map sensor and the readings are identical, The sensor for my dodge is a new cummins MAP sensor, that was the first item changed. There is times that both my Launch and the quadzilla will show the same boost readings for a split sec, and that was in the 25-30 psi range before the quadzilla looses the signal.

Edited by DKfummins

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Posted (edited)

is your scan tool reading from the obd port or from the same plug under the hood that the quadzilla uses?

 

 

Edited by Me78569

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the scan tool is reading from the same location the quadzilla is reading from under the hood. 

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Posted (edited)

so i played with the little tab on the quad circuit board if it matters , when i jump the the two pins, the boost takes longer to show but when it does show, it builds steady up to 30psi, the truck pulls at higher rpms once the quad starts seeing the steady boost coming in ( it doesn't drop out to 0 psi like it does when its just on one pin ) , i also checked resistance on quadzillas wiring harness between the Map sensor and the circuit board and the J1939 connection and circuit board and everything was either between 0 ohms to .02 ohms which is fine. there was also no short circuits between the wires. made sure there wasn't any loose connections, everything seemed like it should be, im starting to run out of ideas. 

Edited by DKfummins

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jumper on is for 01/02 trucks pin off is for 98-00 trucks.

 

Reason it builds steady with the jumper on is you are effectively removing the boost from the ecm.  

 

Do you have datalogs of the issue?

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Im attaching the data log, i ran this one with the pin off as it is a 99 engine. 

iQuad-2019-05-16-21.54.47.csv

i also screen recorded the quad while i drove it down the road, the way the boost jumps around is what confuses me. one second im reading the correct boost being produced then it drops almost to nothing and comes back up. if there's any suggestions on what might be causing this i would love to hear it. 

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The ecm signal is dropping out for boost on the quad.  The data log shows a drop out of no more htan 16 psi from where it was in the prior read.  

 

Is there ANYTHING other than the dodge ecm on that j1939 bus?   How many map sensors do you have in your truck setup? Is the Ford ecm connected at all?  

 

the quadzilla is doing nothing in the code other than reading it from the bus and converting to psi. 

 

 

Have you tried reflashing the unit?  

 

 

 

In your above video I see your boost readings on the non quad screen read  up to 30 psi, if that screen is actually reading map values, in PSI, from the output from the ecm then you would never see higher than 16 psi as the quadzilla is boost fooling.   The ecm never sees higher than 16 psi period with a quadzilla attached.


Something isn't right with what I am seeing.   

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I have 2 map sensors, my Dodge ECM and engine harness are completely un touched , it has nothing in common with the Ford side . I'm only feeding power and ground into the two connectors on the driver's side to make the Dodge Ecm working. For the Ford side I made a separate map sensor location into the intake manifold, oil pressure is separate, the two ecu's don't share anything. The bus network is kept to thier own separate network channels. Nothing extra is added to the Dodge Ecm J1939 network. I kept the Ford ECM to help with the transmission but it's completely separate as well, 

 

 

I have tried reflashing the unit, sent it back to quadzilla as well to get it tested and they said it tested fine. 

 

 

The launch does read up to 30 psi in the first video on the Dodge map sensor and so does the Ford map sensor, they both read pretty close to the same valves at any given boost, the quadzilla is the only one that is being interrupted even thou I'm pulling same info off the same j1939 bus as the quadzilla at the same time as the quadzilla but getting separate readings. 

 

 

 

I'll definitely go back over my engine harness but it just doesn't make sense on why on two different map sensors / different PCM/ecm I'm getting similar readings vs on the quadzilla it's completely off

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The point is if your non-quad screen is reading boost from the Dodge ECM, then something isn't right.  The Dodge ECM will NEVER output higher than 16 psi as the Quadzilla is doing boost fooling on the map signal before it goes into the ECM

 

 

Either your calc isn't right or the map value on your 2nd screen is not reading the same map source as the quadzilla is using.  \

 

The 2nd screen might be right, but it doesn't give us something to compare to and since I am seeing higher than 16 psi readings I dont trust that it is the same data source.  

Edited by Me78569

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Posted (edited)

Alright , so you saying I shouldn't have seen those numbers on psi with the quadzilla hooked up due to boost fooling... Nothing over 16 psi with the quad hooked up. 

 

So I went and unplugged the quad, unhooked the wiring to the map sensor and hooked in the original engine pigtail to the Map sensor without the quad wiring, ( with the quad wiring I wasn't showing any V. on the scan tool, ) I went back out for a drive to see if my numbers would differ any without the quad being installed or if I would see any sort of change.    After driving it and recording it there was no change in numbers with or without the quadzilla installed, still went up to 30 psi, under wot I'd get it steady increase and doesn't jump around . 

 

 

With me getting the same numbers with and without the quad, is that leaning more towards the quad ? 

 

 

I also did a sensor state change on the map pigatil while watching my scan tool, unplugged it was showing 0 V, I jumped the 5 V to the signal wire and the scan tool showed 5v, the psi also changed from 0 to 120 ish, so im seeing the ECU does notice the changes and responds accordingly. 

Edited by DKfummins

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I think your secondary screen is reading 2x what it should.  The stock map sensor reads 50 or 60 psi at 5v   If that is the case then your secondary screen would have topped out at 15-16 psi. which means boost fooling is working.  I tried to watch your video while cutting your boost in 1/2 and comparing, but that was a little hard haha

 

 

I would reflash the quad and give it a go again.  

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I'll try reflasing the quad once again, ill let you know if it works out. 

 

Your right about it being 2x, after the conversion 120 inhg turns out to be 58 psi. 

 

Now if all my Map wiring is fine, reading properly, the J1939 bus network seems to be fine as well. what else does the quad look at when its reading boost. Is it as simple as Map > to Quad > ( boost fooling ) > then signal is sent back to ECU. is there anything else that could be interrupting the signal along the path. 

 

Im not certain what the pervious owner did to the 24v , but what would have happened if he had it flashed with a smarty , would that mess with the quad or not ?

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Posted (edited)

Path goes

 

Map > quad for boost fooling ( only voltage limit, the quad doesnt read anything yet) > voltage out to ecm > ecm converts voltage to psi > ecm outputs on j1939 > quad reads j1939 as boost.

 

If boost is < 16psi then only the j1939 signal is considered

 

If boost is greater than 16 psi then it is ecm psi + voltage from sensor compare.

 

What i see in the logs is the complete drop out of boost output from the ecm as if the ecm is telling the j1939 output boost = 0.

 

This could be the quadzillas boost fooling circuit being bad, but i would expect to see the same issue on your secondary screen.  Unless the read speed is so slow it doesnt catch it.

 

@dieselautopower i dont know what tests were done but might be worth a follow up.  

 

Either the quad is bad or the ecm is loosing its mind.  I am not convinced one way or another.

 

 

Edited by Me78569

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Well here's an update for you.

 

Reflashed the Quad with the (Final release MPG one), there was a big improvement. Night and day difference. 

 

The update just about fixed it, it still tends to do what it was doing but not as bad as it used, just here and there. 

I went ahead and did some more data logging, but ill go test my J1939 network and make sure its in the correct Ohms range. I imagine if it was out of range I'd have a bunch of other issues and not just with boost. 

 

I don't know the speed at which the Launch transfers data but i can find out, see if that changes anything. 

 

 

Scrolling thru the data log, the drops are still there but not as frequent or as big drops like they used to be dropping to 0.

 

 

iQuad (Run in power mode 4)-2019-05-18-21.27.34.csv iQuad ( run in power Mode 5 )-2019-05-18-21.20.45.csv

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so i did some more data logging today, With the Quadzillla set to power mode 0, that takes quadzilla out of the equation, but just uses it to just read the data ? Nothing more. 

 

if that's how it works then i am still noticing boost drops in stock mode. 

 

Since it seem like it does it even with the quad not being part of the factor, is that leaving me with a possible ECM issue, Not properly calibrated, or not updated, or is a driver slowly showing that its almost burnt out ? 

 

 

 

iQuad-2019-05-22-13.16.59.csv

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@DKfummins Me78569 is right, by being on power level 0 the Adrenaline is still apart of the equation as it is boost fooling. When we tested the board, I bench tested it to see if the boost fooler circuit was functioning and changing the input voltage correctly. However, I also threw it on a truck to see if boost levels were reading consistently, and they were. I am at a loss as well as to what it could be, and am leaning towards the ECM providing a false output. 

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