Another VP dying?

[beren]

Sadly, I think the main problem is the VP44 is a bad design with a POS reliability and we're stuck grasping at straws to do anything possible to keep it from failing, convincing ourselves we're affecting it's lifespan. Dodge/Cummins did do some less than optimal things like sucking fuel not pushing it, block heat killing lift pumps, small fittings to try to reduce water hammer effect destroying block lift pumps etc. I wonder if the VP had some passive cooling fins if it would help at all :-)

[dripley]

I am not convince the VP is the weak link. Maybe early on but they have been improved over the years. That has been kicked around for the years I have been here and before. People tried heat sinks, blowers and other things to take the heat away. A lot of what everyone does is based on personal experience. We have members here that have gone 200k, 300k+ on oe vp's with a mostly stock fuel system. Then others like me who only got 75k or less out of there OE VP on the stock system. My second pump was malfunctioning until I modified the fuel system to get it more fuel. it lasted 150k. The present one has 253k on an AD fuel system and 2 stroke. The first 2 did not. I would be hard pressed to go back to what failed because it works for someone else.

 

On the other hand you guys that have gotten the great miles out of near stock systems or cheaper lift pumps that will never buy what I bought. I get it. But it does not seem to work for every one.

 

 

[JAG1]

Way I understand it the original VP had an aluminum timing piston wall. Bosch later realized they had a problem and incorporated a steel sleeve for the new rebuilt vps. Additionally, the Government restriction on the use of lead solder created a condition of electrical circuit board cracks and broken connections from heat cycles and vibration to the PCB board on top of the vp. New rebuilds are supposed to be better than original and there are a few cases when the original went a lot of miles. 

 

Now the upside is they will last a long time, on average, if good fuel pressure all the time, good filtering with a primary and a secondary. You need to eliminate all screens in the tank and make it so the debris can get changed out with a primary water separating filter before the lift pump can emulsify the water droplets and the secondary has little chance removing water.

 

The VP is the easiest injection pump to replace and has the ability to return money in your pocket in fuel mileage differences..

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by JAG1

[kzimmer]

@Mopar1973Man on the mobile browser, for some reason I can no longer select text and have the popup come up to quote only that text. Still have the option to quote the whole message though. Any ideas?

 

@beren I made my own lines from the sump to pre filter to Walbro to regulator to filter housing. Bought a big line upgrade kit from filter housing to VP from DAP. I think it was Vulcan.

 

 

 

[beren]

I'm likely going to do the same thing as @kzimmer as it should be 1/2 the cost of a premade solution for almost as good flow (and more than I'll likely ever need even with 70% of the fuel returning. 

[kzimmer]

I should also mention, it would be wise to keep a spare pump. The Walbro may not have an extended life pumping diesel. Mine was replaced once, however that's a story for another time and may have actually been fine. 

[beren]

Interesting… Looks like there's a few even higher flow pumps from walbro now: https://aftermarket.tiautomotive.com/projects/gss-350-lph-fuel-pump-family/ and a 3x more expensive screw pump as well. Wonder if these 350lph pumps could be adapted to our use? It doesn't look like they have threaded in/outlets not sure if that's an issue.

[Tractorman]

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 11:58 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Too low of fuel pressure. Should of been 14 to 20 PSI to keep the overflow valve open. At 10 to 14 PSI the overflow valve isn't open enough to keep it cooled and lubricated

 

@beren, my perspective is different than most regarding the lift pump fuel pressure minimums.  My understanding of the VP44 pump operation says that your 10 to 14 psi at the VP44 pump inlet is fine. 

 

As soon as that fuel enters the VP44 pump, it enters the inlet of an internal fixed displacement gear pump (a vane pump).  This vane pump is operating at cam shaft speed, so when the engine is running, more than enough fuel is always being delivered from the internal vane pump to supply injectors, controls, timing piston, AND the 14 psi relief valve that returns fuel to the tank under any operating condition.  Any fuel that is not being used by the afore mentioned items is returned to the suction side of the internal vane pump via a relief valve that is set at over 100 psi.  As long as there is positive lift pump pressure at the VP44 inlet,  the VP44 is always being cooled and should operate normally.

 

Your P0216 code is probably a failed timing piston operation and each time the failure occurs the engine goes into limp mode.  Unfortunately, you will probably have to replace your VP44 pump. 

 

I had the same timing piston failure (code P0216) when my truck had 64,000 miles on it and the lift pump was fine according FSM specs.  I drove the truck for another 23,000 miles by downshifting (as you have learned) when the limp mode occurred.   At 87,000 miles the VP44 pump replacement and the in-tank lift pump conversion was done under warranty.  I performed a lift pump pressure test following the conversion that showed half of the operating pressure that the previous block-mounted lift pump showed. 

 

I really didn't care and continued to drive the truck for over 150,000 miles before installing a frame-mounted standard FASS pump.  I did this conversion just in case the in-tank lift pump failed - it was still working fine.  I just did not want the in-tank pump to leave me stranded on the road in case it failed.  I have since added a Smarty tuner and RV275 injectors.  I currently have logged over 225,000 miles on the replaced VP44 pump.  I know that it will fail sometime (probably sooner that later), but it has given me excellent performance for a long time with the "low" lift pump pressure.

 

Just another opinion...

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

21 hours ago, kzimmer said:

@Mopar1973Man on the mobile browser, for some reason I can no longer select text and have the popup come up to quote only that text. Still have the option to quote the whole message though. Any ideas?

 

Submit a support ticket. I'm going to be delayed on looking into this being I go in for surgery tomorrow morning. At least I have a reminder to look into this.

 

[kzimmer]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Submit a support ticket. I'm going to be delayed on looking into this being I go in for surgery tomorrow morning. At least I have a reminder to look into this.

 

 

All good, no rush, just wanted to see if you or anyone else has the same problem.

[beren]

12 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Submit a support ticket. I'm going to be delayed on looking into this being I go in for surgery tomorrow morning. At least I have a reminder to look into this.

 

Hey good luck! Hope to see you back here soon.

[Mopar1973Man]

I will as soon as all the drugs clear out ill be surfing on my cellphone. Promise...