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My grandparents used to take me to Colorado every summer when I was little so when they told me they were going back I was excited. They left Saturday morning and I left Sunday morning in the 98 12v. Other than a ball joint fiasco, I haven’t had any problems out of this truck and after I put a heater core in a few weeks ago, I thought it was road ready. My scan gauge was acting up halfway through my 13 hour trip but I didn’t think that was much of a problem. I get about two hours from camp and stop for fuel and there is a miss that has never been there before. Egt’s have been running hotter than usual since I got up in the high altitude and it didn’t have as much power as normal but I chalked it up to the altitude. Fast forward yesterday morning and we decided to head to a hamburger joint 15 miles up the mountain. Went to start the truck and it didn’t pop off as usual and in fact did not want to start at all but finally did with a huge cloud of white smoke. So now I’ve got an Injector dripping or something not right. We head up the mountain for a burger on the rough dirt road but before we got halfway there, I noticed my alternator was not charging, so we turned back around. I realized that’s the problem with my scangauge, it wasnt getting the power it needed to run. I headed into Del Norte, about 15 miles down the mountain and luckily Napa had a alternator. Swapped that in the parking lot and all it good with the charging. I hope I can make it back to Texas with this injector issue and not cause any other issues driving it.

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It's always something. I seldom go on vacation anymore. Gotta work like hell for 2 weeks before to get ready and 4 weeks after to make up for the time lost on the regular 'chores'. I wish you well on the return trip. At least it's all down hill from CO. to TX. :).

Just a thought. White smoke. Are you sure it didn't slip timing? Would be easy enough to check if you have the tools. I'm not much a 12V guy so maybe I'm out in left field.

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 Is the white smoke definitely unburned diesel fuel or could it be coolant?   Can you isolate which cylinder it is by cracking open an injector line one at a time and see which cylinder has no idle change? 

 

I feel your pain.  I've had an injector pump go out on one trip, a crankshaft position sensor go out on another, and the last trip my transmission wouldn't shift up to 2ed or 3ed at times; almost makes you want to stay home.       

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2 hours ago, 98whitelightnin said:

That thought crossed my mind but it only smokes white on first start and it’s always been black/dark grey before. Once it starts, it runs and idles fun but I can still feel/hear the miss

Ryan, how many miles on those injectors?

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Posted (edited)

I’m pretty sure it’s unburned diesel, it stinks like fuel. I didn’t crack any open but by feeling the lines, #6 feels rough and the other 5 feel like they should but idk if that’s actually a way to tell or not. 

 

Injectors have about 315k

 

We have no service at camp so I can’t check back or reply unless I come up to the camp office. I appreciate everyone’s thoughts.

Edited by 98whitelightnin

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I primed the system with the button on the lp and I could hear it building pressure. It started just as hard with a huge cloud of white smoke that smells like diesel. Then it was blowing blue for a few minutes until I got it on the road. It started blowing black when I got on the road but it would blow a good puff when I let off the throttle to shift. It seems to be idling smooth today and has no blowby. I got a video of the idle but none right after start. Lack of signal here puts a damper on loading videos but I’ll get it up when I get into town.

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16 hours ago, dave110 said:

 At least it's all down hill from CO. to TX. :).

 

 

Del Norte is in the San Luis Valley @ 7900' elevation, yet it is up hill out of there in any direction:(:)

 

I lived there in 1991, hauling logs out of Saguache, west of town. We hauled them into South Fork.

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Ryan thats way too many miles on injectors. MoparMan gonna pass out when hears that! :wow: That's your problem for sure bud.

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3 hours ago, NIsaacs said:

 

Del Norte is in the San Luis Valley @ 7900' elevation, yet it is up hill out of there in any direction:(:)

 

I lived there in 1991, hauling logs out of Saguache, west of town. We hauled them into South Fork.

That stretch of road aka... the shot gun or the gun barrel. 

 

Im a frequent flyer on that stretch transporting heavy equipment out of Denver, it a real treat :) running that road after comming off the passes. It’s about 80 miles of perfectly flat and straight road, hammer down and watch out for Smokey the bear 

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I’ve never been up in any kind of elevation before but do egt’s usually run hotter? I forgot but I put a qt of type F atf in this morning before I left camp. I’ve been about 150 miles today heading home and it hasn’t missed a beat, idling good and no more white/blue smoke.

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6 hours ago, NIsaacs said:

 

Del Norte is in the San Luis Valley @ 7900' elevation, yet it is up hill out of there in any direction:(:)

 

I lived there in 1991, hauling logs out of Saguache, west of town. We hauled them into South Fork.

My dry sense of humor again. TX is down hill from CO when you look on the map. Interesting geography out there.

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3 hours ago, 98whitelightnin said:

 I forgot but I put a qt of type F atf in this morning before I left camp. I’ve been about 150 miles today heading home and it hasn’t missed a beat, idling good and no more white/blue smoke.

ATF is about the best carb./ injector cleaner you can buy, and cheapest too. I run some through my old Ferguson every now and again. Skidloader's gonna get a shot too here shortly. Not sure I'd use it in a HPCR diesel though (disclaimer).

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When I first moved to Colorado 20 years ago (from about sea level elevation) I was driving a 1998 12V. I worked at a job at 9,000' elevation.

 

My truck started, starting really hard and it puffed out huge plumes of white smoke. It never started that hard at seal level.

 

I thought something was wrong with my truck. It chugged out so much white smoke I thought it was going to kill every tree and living thing with in 100 miles. 

 

Low and behold, after a few days, it started to start a lot easier. After a few weeks it was like it was born here, and never acted like it did, when I first moved here. 

 

Elevation, lack of air, does weird things. 

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Posted (edited)

When I leave my place at around 450 feet, to go visit my mother and camp with IBMobile, two days later up at 7500 feet, there is no change in how she runs or starts. I wonder.... can high miles injectors also be affected from high elevation? I'm thinking you need to get new injectors. 

 

 My old 92 had around 450k miles on the originals.... I should never have done that because when one finally gave up may have damaged the engine. No warning, she stopped dead on my driveway after a bunch of white smoke. All I know is I could never get it to run after, even with new injectors it was always a little harder to start and had an unmistakable miss. 

Edited by JAG1

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13 minutes ago, 98whitelightnin said:

My grandpa was with me in his 2001 vp truck and it never missed a beat but its got an ecm to tell the vp what to do.

So does that mean worn injectors are harder to detect on a VP truck since the ECM can compensate?

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I dont think the ECM is capable adjusting for elevation, unless the map sensor can some how communicate the difference in atmospheric pressure at altitude. I would not know for sure.

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I’ve been reading up in this and it seems a lot of people have the exact problem I had. I need to get timing tools and advance it a bit and also new injectors. Truck runs too darn good down here in the low country.

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Posted (edited)

A 24v will compensate for altitude well not altitude but the lack of air. It will adjust the fuel air ratio timming everything really. The 12v wont, itl run richer with less air, less dense air at altitude. Itl always push the same timming and fuel unless you physically change it.

 

However the vp and all computer controlled trucks will make more power at sea level because the air is dense more of it. The fuel air mixture there will create more power it's like stuffing more air and fuel into the combustion chamber.

That's why most all hp ratings are done at sea level or very close to see level 

Edited by Evan
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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2019 at 11:02 PM, Evan said:

A 24v will compensate for altitude well not altitude but the lack of air. It will adjust the fuel air ratio timming everything really.

 

No compensation. 

 

As you go up you foot goes down more fuel is added. There is no air / fuel ratio nothing to measure or monitor it. Timing is controlled by your foot once you pass 20% engine load the timing just retards deeply that all. The key factor is IAT below 80°F then timing advances. Above 80°F then it retards. I live in a area where I can go to 9,000 plus feet above sea level (Heavens Gate - Riggins, ID) and drop to as low as 800 above sea level (Lewiston, ID). 

 

Fueling is based on boost. As you climb in elevation the air gets thinner and the turbo has tough time making same amount of boost. Since the fueling is based off of boost this just limits the power you can create even in stock form. You can't have max fuel will little to no boost. Boost pressure is the key to releasing more fuel. 

 

Once you have a Quadzilla and able to monitor live data in flight then you start understand much more. So climbing I'm typically about 14° BTDC and well over 35% engine load which means more fuel. My cutoff is 20% engine load then there is a -3° of timing based on engine load as load increases the timing advances. Then on the flat it settles to about 22° BTDC and a mere 15 to 17% engine load at 65 MPH. I  climb 3 grades twice a day. Travel 1,000 miles a week.

 

On 7/9/2019 at 11:02 PM, Evan said:

Itl always push the same timming and fuel unless you physically change it.

 

Not true. Even stock has its limits and will not keep same timing all the time. Again even running Quadzilla in Level 0 you can monitor STOCK ECM fuel and timing and its VERY dynamic and changes constantly. Stock ECM can dip very low in timing and can rise up to extremely timing at high RPM's.

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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