in-tank lift pump

[JAG1]

The screens at the bottom of the fuel module eventually clog or varnish. They shouldn't be there because how do you change out a fuel filter when you have no access to it? There needs to be a good lift pump that always stays above 14 mounted on the frame so you can have a filter in front of it so the lift pump is protected from garbage in the fuel. They make plumbing insulation and the thick commercial stuff is available at plumbing supply hoses, comes in different sizes to snap on cover different size hoses. Some big enough to cover big filter big lift pump. The fuel lines and lift pump needs to go on the inside side of the frame for best results from cold. I would get something covering the tank bottom. Something like sleeping bag ground matt insulation to cover the tank bottom.... maybe wrap the whole tank. They make big long zip ties from heating and air conditioning supply houses too.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 minute ago, JAG1 said:

The fuel lines and lift pump needs to go on the inside side of the frame for best results from cold.

 

Yup. it helps a bunch being I see -20*F to -40*F up here every winter at least one day to one week. Never gelled once yet. 

 

[MyOle2500]

On the topic of 2010+ in-tank lift pumps, will 2005 and up in-tank lift pumps fit 02 and back tanks?  I’ve tried to do some searching on this and got mixed results.  Looking at the Carter specs, they are higher psi and gph than the dealer in-tank retrofit kit carter pumps.  Of course this is water under the bridge for modded trucks but what about stock rigs?  They are true 3/8” feed from the top of the unit vs the smaller dealer kit pumps.  Maybe with a 1/2” big line kit, they would be ok? Bigger questions are if the retrofit wiring will pug in and if the fuel gauge would read correct?  I’ve also read where jeep liberty sender units will “fit” if using it in the place of a draw straw set up.  But, the gauge reads 1/8 tank off or so.  I guess the challenge is using factory (or similar) parts to efficiently upgrade the situation.  I’ve seen aftermarket parts like the Fleece in-tank drop in.  This may be a great alternative and great engineering, but its price makes kits such as Fass or Airdog a tossup on which way to go.

 

Just my $.02

[Mopar1973Man]

According to Eric at Vulcan performance the 2010+ lift pumps have better longevity and better pressure and volume for the 4th gen engines. As for the 3rd Gen pumps still have serious problems with volume and pressure. Not to mention longevity is rather poor yet. This is why the 2010+ pumps seem to be better solution for stockish trucks. 

[dripley]

As far as the fuel gauge reading mine reversed with the in tank pump intall. Stock my gauge would read at the E mark and i had near 125 miles untill I was empty. After the in tank pump install it would take a 125 miles untill the needle moves. By the time zI see a half tank it is really only a third tank left. Just had to get used to it. Either way matter fact. Had to learn the OE reading when I bought the truck. No big deal.

[Evan]

Why the hell at -15 air temp would it matter where the fuel lines are running. You have no heat source till trucks running. Leaving it running all night? 

 

Sometimes you guys crack me the **** up

[Mopar1973Man]

Some of us park in unheated shops that might be a bit warmer (+20*F to +30*F). This give you cheating start with warmer fuel and not have to struggle with -15*F out of the starting gate. To this date I've NEVER gelled up yet.

[Irie808]

Not related to the cold and gelling problem but I had mentioned how bad the inside of my in-tank lift pump screens were so I thought I'd share a picture I took after prying the pump out of the way...

 

 

[JAG1]

15 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Some of us park in unheated shops that might be a bit warmer (+20*F to +30*F). This give you cheating start with warmer fuel and not have to struggle with -15*F out of the starting gate. To this date I've NEVER gelled up yet.

Proof of the pudding is in the pie 

5 hours ago, Irie808 said:

Not related to the cold and gelling problem but I had mentioned how bad the inside of my in-tank lift pump screens were so I thought I'd share a picture I took after prying the pump out of the way...

 

 

Just think screens in that condition together with sub zero temperatures. Dodge engineers messed up not having a primary filter you can have access and change on regular intervals.. First mod to both my 01 and my 02 was cutting out those screens and adding a primary filter.

[Mopar1973Man]

Thank Gawd, I'm not using the stock basket.

[dripley]

Same here. I never saw the oe one which was removed after 6 years. The in tank pump screen was mostly clean when I removed it about 4 years later. The screen on mine was attached to the pump and not the basket.

[JAG1]

MY 02 had the side and bottom screens w/o the in tank pump. My 01 had only bottom screen for the in tank lift pump. Basically the bottom of my baskets are gone. One was full of garbage the 02 was not with just 29 k on the clock.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Thank Gawd, I'm not using the stock basket.

Goes to show why you need to protect the lift pump with a pre filter.

Edited August 18, 2019 by JAG1

[Irie808]

16 hours ago, dripley said:

Same here. I never saw the oe one which was removed after 6 years. The in tank pump screen was mostly clean when I removed it about 4 years later. The screen on mine was attached to the pump and not the basket.

The screen is removed in this photo, it came out with the pump , this is just the rust left in the bottom which looks like it has come from my filler neck. I'd say the vent tube side in particular as it had a couple pin holes in it and some gnarly rust. Now that i think about, it is curious how its all sitting inside the basket still. The bottom of the basket has some fine holes in it acting as a screen itself, not letting anything back out I guess. Tank it self was not as bad just some bigger rusts.

 

On 8/17/2019 at 5:51 PM, JAG1 said:

Proof of the pudding is in the pie 

Just think screens in that condition together with sub zero temperatures. Dodge engineers messed up not having a primary filter you can have access and change on regular intervals.. First mod to both my 01 and my 02 was cutting out those screens and adding a primary filter.

If they just made the filler neck out of plastic like the tank...no rust

 

When you cut the screens out does that involve doing a draw straw < to frame mount primary filter < to frame mount lift pump?

Or would you still be using anything left in the tank?

 

Good idea to save the basket minus the pump encase I want to convert a basket for a draw straw right? Or If down the road i get to that situation would I be buying a new basket (sending unit?) Guess good to save everything if you got the room right 

[dripley]

4 hours ago, Irie808 said:

The screen is removed in this photo, it came out with the pump , this is just the rust left in the bottom which looks like it has come from my filler neck. I'd say the vent tube side in particular as it had a couple pin holes in it and some gnarly rust. Now that i think about, it is curious how its all sitting inside the basket still. The bottom of the basket has some fine holes in it acting as a screen itself, not letting anything back out I guess. Tank it self was not as bad just some bigger rusts.

 

If they just made the filler neck out of plastic like the tank...no rust

 

When you cut the screens out does that involve doing a draw straw < to frame mount primary filter < to frame mount lift pump?

Or would you still be using anything left in the tank?

 

Good idea to save the basket minus the pump encase I want to convert a basket for a draw straw right? Or If down the road i get to that situation would I be buying a new basket (sending unit?) Guess good to save everything if you got the room right 

Never seen any rust in mine, of course I have not opened mine up in 8 or nine years since I installed my AD. It was very clean back then.

 

I used the basket the in tank pump was in. The AD came with a kit to convert it. The pick up and returns all go to the basket. Then thru a course filter/water seperator then thru the pump and thru the finer filter, 5 micron I believe. Indefinitely would not throw it away no matter what you do.

 

Pretty sure you can change out the sending unit on the basket and not have buy the whole thing. I could be wrong it has been a while since I have seen it.

[JAG1]

The 02 without the in tank pump all I did was cut out the screens with a razor knife and drill some holes to swiss cheese it. I believe I gradually and carefully ground out the holes rather than drill them because the plastic is pretty fragile and you need the housing intact for the sending unit and draw straw.

 

Having never seen what an intank pump looked like until I bought an 01 with that dealership modification, the basket bottom was different and the screen was attatched to the lift pump it was halfway clogged with dirt and sediment. 190,000 miles when purchased it was dirt and sediment not rust particles. The newer 1/2'' draw straw conversion kit from intank L/P was different in that everything snapped in place. Eric had developed it even further from the original Draw Straw set up.

 

It goes draw straw--- primary frame mount filter--- frame mount lift pump--- factory filter---fuel pressure 'T' and needle valve--- long sweep 90 degree elbow going into the VP44. There are no banjo bolts in the kit. Even using the factory filter the kit allows you to remove them. It's a good kit

 

Some guys have the Air Dog lift pump that comes mounted together with two filters, on a manifold block.

Edited August 19, 2019 by JAG1

[matthew gilland]

On 8/14/2019 at 9:22 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

I've got a tidbit to toss in here... I made a few phone calls and found out from Eric at Vulcan Performance that the 2010+ intank lift pumps are actually pretty good pumps now. For stockish truck you could use one possibly. He explained you would have to modify the lift pump module so it would fit the tank. Ive got a friend in Ontario that is willing to be the test dummy for this and will be soon retrofitting this 2010+ pump in his 2002 Dodge truck.

I would love to hear if this conversion works! 

 

Also, I do not think that I have the updated wiring for an intank lift pump. Could I wire one up myself? I wired one up for my 2001 vw jetta TDI a couple years ago and had no issues with it.

*UPDATE* found a replacement fuel tank. Hope it is in good shape and if it is, want to get it in at the same time I do the lift pump. 

 

@Mopar1973Man If I did the in tank lift pump, either a Spectra/Delphi correct send unit for my truck or the 2010+ you mentioned, what would I need for fuel lines and fuel line connectors? Should I upgrade it to 1/2 inch lines? 

Also, if I did the in tank lift pump, would I still need the frame/block mounted fass lift pump? Or would the in tank lift pump work on its own? 

 

@Evan Thank you for your post, but if you do not have any worthwhile, helpful information, and just want to criticize. Please stay out of this thread. 

[dripley]

I dont have any with the 2010+ pumps. I do know if I have a lift pump failure, I do t want it to happen in the fuel tank. If my AD fails it is readily replaceabe without removing the tank. A very quick repair on the frame rail.

[015point9]

1 minute ago, dripley said:

I dont have any with the 2010+ pumps. I do know if I have a lift pump failure, I do t want it to happen in the fuel tank. If my AD fails it is readily replaceabe without removing the tank. A very quick repair on the frame rail.

Agree 100%

I'm set up now with ball valves and jic fittings.  Took me 20 min in a practice run to change out pump. 

[JAG1]

4 hours ago, matthew gilland said:

 

 

@Evan Thank you for your post, but if you do not have any worthwhile, helpful information, and just want to criticize. Please stay out of this thread. 

He been eatin nothin' but chicken lately....we got to give him a break this time around.

Evan, have you ever ridin in the back of a pick up in winter. Right between the frame rails you can feel the pick up bed floor staying warm. Nice to sit there when cold. Plus fuel lines out of the wind in winter should help when the block heater been on for 3 hours.

 

Have a little faith and I struggle just like you too.

Edited September 13, 2019 by JAG1