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Irie808

AUTO TRANS SYMPTOMS

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   New to the community today! Excited to meet you all, been lurking for a while. This may end up being a bit long winded, I figure the more info the better for opinions.

Truck Is a 1999 24V 2500 ex cab automatic190,000+ miles (owned since 111,000) I had transmission flushed and filter changed early on. Some point a couple years in i started to get some transmission "hunting?" on hills in higher gear range with low throttle 45mph-ish (thinking in and out of overdrive?) Anyway, I had resolved this issue it seamed by moving the large ground wire away from the alternator to the top the radiator.. This worked for me for a few years. This makes me believe I must have the AC alternator interference I read about. A year ago or so I decided to change my own trans fluid and filter and attempt a band adjustment as I have read it should be done on the regular, although you also hear don't touch it, too late. (Messy job! No drain plug! WHY!?) So, these days I am experiencing some similar trans "hunting" it seemed to happen after the band adjustment but it is in the 1-2 gear range with very light throttle, more often on a hill. If I stomp on it it does not seem to have issues, pulls hard no slips or hunting. There seems to be a lot of gear searching in low gears depending a lot on the throttle. I'm wondering if my band adjustment is partially to fault for the symptoms. Although i never corrected the alternator issue, which leaves me to wonder if adjusting the bands could have made the the system more sensitive to the AC noise i probably still have based on my first ground wire rerouting? I notice that when put into reverse it seems to hit pretty hard on engage.. The 45 mph overdrive hunting seems to be a non-issue these days as it holds the OD going up hills well now.. This makes me think the band responsible for the lower gears and reverse could be loosened up a touch maybe?? Would the bands effect the shifts in this way or is it AC noise related or maybe both?? I want to open up the trany in the future to do another filter change and maybe a small adjustment to bands again. I have read and searched so much I think I'm confused

  -Next time I'm in the trany are there some small parts like solenoids or springs or anything i could change to keep it healthy without getting in too deep?

  -I am in the process of doing the "W-T ground mod" I can not find the bolt that fits into the VP44 for ground. listed as M5 5/16 hex head which is one size too small for my hole, closest i came was M6 0.8 pitch which goes in a turn and a quarter or so and gets snug. Possible people have different size holes on VP44?? I think I have to use the bolt i found and pray it holds tight. If not I guess i can come up with a ground close by even if extension is needed.

  -Looks like I have a Bosch alternator, what are my options for diodes or addressing AC noise? Alternator replacement choices?

 

Thanks in advance!

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Irie808 said:

   New to the community today! Excited to meet you all, been lurking for a while. This may end up being a bit long winded, I figure the more info the better for opinions.

Truck Is a 1999 24V 2500 ex cab automatic190,000+ miles (owned since 111,000) I had transmission flushed and filter changed early on. Some point a couple years in i started to get some transmission "hunting?" on hills in higher gear range with low throttle 45mph-ish (thinking in and out of overdrive?) Anyway, I had resolved this issue it seamed by moving the large ground wire away from the alternator to the top the radiator.. This worked for me for a few years. This makes me believe I must have the AC alternator interference I read about. A year ago or so I decided to change my own trans fluid and filter and attempt a band adjustment as I have read it should be done on the regular, although you also hear don't touch it, too late. (Messy job! No drain plug! WHY!?) So, these days I am experiencing some similar trans "hunting" it seemed to happen after the band adjustment but it is in the 1-2 gear range with very light throttle, more often on a hill. If I stomp on it it does not seem to have issues, pulls hard no slips or hunting. There seems to be a lot of gear searching in low gears depending a lot on the throttle. I'm wondering if my band adjustment is partially to fault for the symptoms. Although i never corrected the alternator issue, which leaves me to wonder if adjusting the bands could have made the the system more sensitive to the AC noise i probably still have based on my first ground wire rerouting? I notice that when put into reverse it seems to hit pretty hard on engage.. The 45 mph overdrive hunting seems to be a non-issue these days as it holds the OD going up hills well now.. This makes me think the band responsible for the lower gears and reverse could be loosened up a touch maybe?? Would the bands effect the shifts in this way or is it AC noise related or maybe both?? I want to open up the trany in the future to do another filter change and maybe a small adjustment to bands again. I have read and searched so much I think I'm confused

  -Next time I'm in the trany are there some small parts like solenoids or springs or anything i could change to keep it healthy without getting in too deep?

  -I am in the process of doing the "W-T ground mod" I can not find the bolt that fits into the VP44 for ground. listed as M5 5/16 hex head which is one size too small for my hole, closest i came was M6 0.8 pitch which goes in a turn and a quarter or so and gets snug. Possible people have different size holes on VP44?? I think I have to use the bolt i found and pray it holds tight. If not I guess i can come up with a ground close by even if extension is needed.

  -Looks like I have a Bosch alternator, what are my options for diodes or addressing AC noise? Alternator replacement choices?

 

Thanks in advance!

I dont know about the tranny issues but the bolt for the ground mod goes into the timing case and not the VP. And yes there have a few cases where the bolt size is different. 

Edited by dripley

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Posted (edited)

Just wanted to say welcome to the board.  If you recognized the hunting problem right after the band adjustment and filter/fluid change I would guess that had something to do with it.  It's possible that you didn't adjust it properly or the new clean fluid washed the crud off your friction material and left it without as much grab.  Pressures are higher when you get into it so that might be why you are not experiencing any problems at full go.  These are all just guesses of course.

 

The most likely time to experience the hunting issue due to AC interference is in OD.  So if you are no longer experiencing it there I wouldn't think it is your problem in the lower gears.  There's a way to check your alternator on the truck for AC interference that can be found through search on here.

Edited by Bullet

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I think I have the right hole, guess its the timing case. Just going to use the bolt i have when i got a good day and all supplies

 

I need to get a better multi meter for the AC check, though i do know someone that has one that i've used before. I think it was in range at the time few years back. I will get it done soon.

Interesting to note the AC noise tends to affect the upper range OD gears.

So what band is the lower gears? The one inside the pan or outside the pan? (hoping the outside one)

All in all the trany issue is not that bad, but when your trany makes funny kine like this you really want to resolve it before too long I'd think.

Sure seems like a hunting issue the way it shifts or slips or whatever. really happens only when slowly accelerating at the shift point. Perhaps worse when hot?? not positive on that last bit.

 

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Posted (edited)

Been awhile since I've been in mine but I believe the low/reverse is in the pan and intermediate is outside the pan. 

Edited by Bullet

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8 hours ago, Irie808 said:

   

  -I am in the process of doing the "W-T ground mod" I can not find the bolt that fits into the VP44 for ground. listed as M5 5/16 hex head which is one size too small for my hole, closest i came was M6 0.8 pitch which goes in a turn and a quarter or so and gets snug. Possible people have different size holes on VP44?? I think I have to use the bolt i found and pray it holds tight. If not I guess i can come up with a ground close by even if extension is needed.

  -

I had to use a different size bolt in mine when I did the mod.  IIRC it was a M6x1.0

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13 hours ago, hdpwipmonkey said:

I had to use a different size bolt in mine when I did the mod.  IIRC it was a M6x1.0

 

I think that's what i got, M6x1.0 sounds right. Thanks for the confirmation on that.

 

Thanks for all responses for that matter. You guys rock! :thumb1:

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If it's worse when hot it could be a pressure thing. Maybe slightly tightening TV cable to raise pressure would help

 

Hot fluid will make less pressure than cool fluid. 

 

Make clean all battery connections you can find

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Disconnect the two small alternator wire connector at the back of the alt and go for a run to see if the trans behaves as it should. If it stops hunting/ acting strange the problem is with the Alternator. Mopar Man always tells us to do that in a case like yours. I think having a good Fluke DVM is a must with these trucks as most less expensive DVM's don't have the capability to properly read AC ripple.

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18 hours ago, Evan said:

If it's worse when hot it could be a pressure thing. Maybe slightly tightening TV cable to raise pressure would help

 

Hot fluid will make less pressure than cool fluid. 

 

Make clean all battery connections you can find

Well i did some digging and downloaded the FSM for my year truck to read about the TV cable adjusting.

When you say slightly tighten the TV cable, in a sense i will be making the cable just shy of reaching the connection, so the cable will ever so slightly be engaging?

I do have a question regarding the throttle cable...it seems to have a slight slack to it, is it ok to remove some of that by turning the star bolt for the plate adjustment there. I'm gathering i should not touch that star bolt adjustment.

If i make the TV cable tight by a few mm is it ok for testing feeling? same for lose, just to see the feeling when driving? Or are these bad ideas for breaking something?

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Posted (edited)

The star bolt you see is the front band. Dont touch it.

Yes take slack out of cable. I bend the arm that holds the cable.

Should shift 1-2 at 2800-3000rpm wide open throttle 

What I do is pop the ball off the TV lever so cable is disconnected then tighten very slightly so theres no slack or very little slack then test drive.

Tighter cable will make shifts later. Higher rpm shifts will also feel quicker and firmer.

 

You might also want to get a pressure gauge and see what pressure is at locked converter wide open throttle should be 90-100 itl idle around 50-60

 

I'm not sure what star bolt you see but there isnt a star bolt I know of that adjusts cable slack.

Cable can also be adjusted on the pump end but I found a small crescent wrench and give the arm the cable goes through a slight tweak is easier for me to adjust on the tranny end

Edited by Evan
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star bolt im talking is the tiny one that is in engine side right at the throttle cable, maybe one would thing an idle adjustment screw.

I will mess with the TV cable and check the lever under the truck. I pull on the cable and it has very little resistance for a section then gets tight, hard to pull by hand, it will move further past that point easily when connected. Do you think that very firm point in cable is the point i need to adjust to? if so my TV cable is loose. Ill go check it out in a few

 

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Posted (edited)

Another way to do it is wedge a stick or something against the seat and move the seat forward until throttle is to the floor. Then move TV lever all way back the direction the cable pulls it. This way you know TV arm is moving full travel or if it's not. Adjust cable so TV arm moves as far as it can. If it shifts to late or to firm for your liking you can back it of slightly. Little adjustments make a big difference in how it shifts under light throttle 

 

TV cable definitely takes some fiddling to get right you can be in 2800-3000 wot range and still be able to adjust it how you like.

You just need to make sure it's not to loose it needs to build more pressure with more throttle so itl hold power under increasing throttle.  The farther you push the pedal down the more powerful the tranny gets if its adjusted correctly. 

Yes you could be feeling slack then it moves the arm at has a return spring pulling against it.

Edited by Evan

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Well i think we are on to something here for me. I adjusted the TV cable (pulled on it as i tried to clip it in with that clip...) looks like a cylinder that has a spring inside as i pull from the back side with the clip released) Not sure if I am doing it right. Is there a possibility that the cable gets to old and needs replace?

Bottom line is i think i feel a difference in the shifting after trying to adjust. If I check the FSM for where i undo the clip it looks like i might be able to slide the cable, but for me it seems i can only pull that spring out to make my TV cable tighter, just  doesn't feel right when i pull on it that hard to try to clip it it in as per FSM. That clip i suspect holds the cable, i have to pull back towards the rear of the truck to get it to be tight, maybe the cable is caught where it has been in the past or maybe im pulling on it as i shouldn't

 

If i undo the clip behind the bracket of the TV cable is there a way to adjust the TV cable easily or do i need to PULL on it HARD! Feels like im doing it wrong, at some point i saw the spring right there at the clip for TV cable.

Thanks for the knowledge! So stoke to meet you all!!

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If your valve body is stock, you may have trouble getting it to shift at 2800-3000. They often don't make enough TV pressure to hold the shifts that late.

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After making the TV cable a little tighter the power feels better and better shifts. Still need to do some fine tuning. I think my cable is pinched in the adjustment area as per the FSM. The cable will not slide freely through the clip when it is undone, rather the circular plastic that has a spring inside (just behind the clip) wants to move with the cable as i pull it not allowing for much adjustment.

Upon my testing, on steep grade with minimal throttle at 10 mph it seems as if the trany is trying to shift or is shifting. This seems like the problem i have been having but it does seem much better. I am able to get shifts at the 2800 rpm range WOT. Its the extremely slow acceleration that gives the funny feeling. Almost like when it tries shifting at 10mph it doesn't go into a higher gear really. After my first adjustment of TV cable upon normal acceleration from stops i have less shifting now, it seems to pick a gear and stay in it.

 

Just wanted to say thank you for all the support here. This is my first forum, it is nice to chat with others on the same page. :thumbup2:

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Bend the bracket on tranny that holds the cable to tighten or loosen it.

 

There is minimum TV cable adjustment inside the tranny this will set minimum pressure. I do not k ow specs for this adjustment.  It a bolt stop that just physical stops the TV lever. Maybe dynamic has the spec I do t and haven't found.

I've messed with mine until I like how it pulls off idle. I may raise minumum tv pressure alittle more trying not drop the pan till its at least got 10k or so on the oil.

 

You can hold the TV arm with zip ties or wire to do the same thing the bolt adjustment does inside the tranny.

 

Is the the truck down shifting? 

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There is TV cable on bottom and throttle cable on top in engine side. The small screw is a stop on the throttle plate it seems, my throttle has small slack i was thinking of taking it out there...? will that affect apps or something

 

When you ask if the truck is down shifting, im not sure..the thought has crossed my mind in the past. I thought thats just how it is, didnt expect it to down shift as im braking and provide any sort of assistance to braking. It does start out in a lower gear after slowing. If slowing from 50 to 40 mph and foot still on the throttle lightly it does down shift.

 

In FSM it just shows the TV cable adjustment at the engine with the clip iirc. It seems like im pulling on the spring and it seems like it wants to pull out instead of slide...just went out and played with the connection on the trany side of things. Blocked the pedal WOT, I made sure the lever on the tranny with the return spring is fully open at WOT, ever so slightly taped the bracket holding TV cable towards the rear of truck. I assume this is the most i can get out of it out here, as long as that lever on the tranny fully opens at WOT

 

You mention some adjustments on inside of trany...

I plan on going in there again sometime soon. I did once as mentioned above and adjusted bands, chance i got it off slightly or it reacted strange to the adjustment. Anyway is there some advice as to some parts to change while im in there or further adjustments i can plan for while im in there? small rebuild kits? adding a drain plug to existing pan i've read is an option im interested in (plan on siphoning out fluid this next time)

 

Guess getting a guage as mentioned would be helpfull to diagnose some trany symptoms

 

going for a test drive

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I just got to say it feels better!! long drive and no symptoms. Like you said i had a couple firm shifts but its a keeper adjustment for now. Very happy with the results

 

Thank you

 

 

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It may firm shift under light throttle.

 

Putting a gauge on it would determine if it's a healthy tranny. I'm guessing that it is since it firm shifts.

You might readjust bands though it sounds like. good.

 

You can do a Borg Warner solenoid. And tranducer.

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F201295614242

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the bands is something i have read a lot on and still have some confusion... I did adjust 10k ago or so and felt like i started this low throttle low gear shift issue, which the TV cable seemed to help.

It's not crazy firm shifts, it feels good to me

Forgot to mention it shifts 1-2 WOT @ 2800+ rpm 2-3 seemed to hit 3k

I almost felt like it DID down shift when coming to a stop today. (more so than ever before)

I'll research the solenoid and transducer...:thumbup2:

 

I need to know what the difference in loose bands vs. tight band symptoms???

 

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Thanks for joining in on our forum and confiding in our members even if we are just a bunch of 'Mainlanders'. Don't forget to join in the conversation whenever possible. :thumb1:

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If you're at 2800 on your WOT 1-2 shift, and it feels good, then leave it alone. 3K for the WOT 2-3 is about right as well. I'd leave it alone, but definitely adjust your bands if you haven't done so already. Assuming that your transmission is stock, I'd run the front band at 2 turns out, and the rear band at 3 turns out.

 

Don't be messing with the TV lever stop. That's not an adjustment that needs to be messed with except for when setting up the valve body. Yes, I do have specs that I use, but it depends entirely upon the application.

 

 

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On 8/4/2019 at 4:15 PM, Evan said:

It may firm shift under light throttle.

 

Putting a gauge on it would determine if it's a healthy tranny. I'm guessing that it is since it firm shifts.

You might readjust bands though it sounds like. good.

 

You can do a Borg Warner solenoid. And tranducer.

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F201295614242

This kit has many parts to it. I wonder if I can install them all easily...:think:

I wonder if it ain't broken don't fix it...:think:

I wonder if it could run much better with a couple new do-hickies installed...:think:

 

Assuming my transmission is still happy at 193k miles. (Still curious about the low throttle 1-2 stumble, after a drive yesterday, WIP) What are opinions on what to change/upgrade at my next service?

Any schooling :smart: and elaboration on how these effect my transmission is most welcome.

Also as i browse, I see mentioning of some things being easier vs harder to get to in there.

 

$103 for georend pan to ship to Hawaii...$334 total :cry: Is it worth it? (cant find much else for much cheaper at that quality)

I can get a stock one with a drain plug for $33 shipped...tempting (assuming trans pans main benefit is cooling maybe there's a better $ way to cool it.? Maybe get a Temp. bung welded on it..) I mean at this point I dont tow, just a DD. I ramble...

 

Irie

 

 

 

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In my experience and opinion, the main benefit of an aluminum pan is to strengthen the case.

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