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MyOle2500

Installing Isspro FP gauge in stock 01

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I'm thinking of installing the Isspro R17033 RV2 fuel pressure gauge (electric) and the bullet mount.  I know they offer a mechanical gauge and perhaps its more accurate, but I like the idea of an easy install and no chance of fuel coming in the cab.  I'm also looking at the Vulcan big line filter to vp44 kit.  I have read Mopar1973Man's article for this install and look to do just the same, however I have few questions for those already having done this mod before:

 

Is there a need for 1/2" over 3/8" big line kit?  Depending on the condition of the stock in-tank pump, an Air Dog or Fass would be in the future with its big line kit.

 

Is there a need to have both a shut off valve and snubber?

 

Is the distance from the big line kit to the fender too short to eliminate fuel hammer?

 

Is it just as easy and more durable to use fuel hose over air brake line to connect to the sender unit?  (Thinking back to the days of my youth using copper over plastic line for oil pressure gauge installs.)

 

This is the big one:

 

How did you wire this gauge to the factory wiring harness without a bunch of splices or a spider web of connections?  I'd like to have the lighting dim with the dash if possible, but won't fuss if that's a bunch of aggravation for not much gain.

 

I'd like to keep it a clean (near factory looking) install and probably won't add anything later unless I go with a Westach egt/boost combo gauge (stock ETH so really no hurry).

 

Thanks for any ideas and help!!

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Did a FP gauge recently and I used "Fuse taps" for the dimmer and the 12v ignition. Could not be easier.

I used the fuses in the drivers side door on the dash. Use multi-meter to find the fuses you need,12v ignition and lights.

I used the cigarette lighter for 12v and illumination for the lights. (my gauge specifically said NOT to connect to the actual dimmer switch. Connect to a source that turns on when lights are turned on and my gauge dims 30% is how mine works)

Glowshifts instruction videos are informative for this process..

https://www.glowshiftdirect.com/mini-expandable-circuit-4-amp-fuse/

There is a video on this page

 

 

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I have run my mechanical gauge for 8 years with nothing but a needle valve protecting it from the hammer effect. I am not that a snubber is not a good idea, I just never put one in. As below in the big line kit.

post-10340-138698211595_thumb.jpg

I never had to tap into a factory wiring harnes for the lights, just the fuse box like @Irie808 mentions. Though I took it loose I dont remeber what I tapped into and now my gauge lights are on at key on. Going to look into that again one day but for now I dont really  worry about it. 

 

Of course this mechanical versus electrical so it might not mean anything.

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5 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

Is there a need for 1/2" over 3/8" big line kit?  Depending on the condition of the stock in-tank pump, an Air Dog or Fass would be in the future with its big line kit.

No, 3/8 is big enough.  The best thing about the big line kit is that it gets rid of the restrictive banjo fittings.

 

Is there a need to have both a shut off valve and snubber?

No but if I were only going to do one I would do the needle valve.  They both do the same thing just that the needle valve is adjustable and the snubber is not.

 

Is the distance from the big line kit to the fender too short to eliminate fuel hammer?

It doesn't really matter how short or how long, you're going to get some water hammer either way.

 

Is it just as easy and more durable to use fuel hose over air brake line to connect to the sender unit?  (Thinking back to the days of my youth using copper over plastic line for oil pressure gauge installs.)

I think air brake line is used because of its resistance to high pressures.  The water hammer pulse is short but very powerful.

Answers above.  I use 3/8" big line kit with both a snubber and a needle valve and 1/8" air brake line.  My needle valve is open about 1/8 a turn or less from full close.  I can still see an ever so slight water hammer movement but not any kind of an issue. 

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I chose the 1/2" over the 3?8 because it cost the same and figured why not. Unless you are going for big power the smaller will do the job. The air brake line is very easy to route though the nylon line I used is still holding up fine. I have some to replace the nylon with but for now again I am happy with the nylon.

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As for using the needle valve.... it lets you adjust it perfect and is only in the right adjustment when barely, barely open to protect the gauge. I didn't like not having the ability to adjust my snubber/ small orifice, when I had one, because my electronic sensors for the gauge never lasted but a short while each time I changed it.

     

Both trucks now have mechanical gauges turned way down. To complete.....all have no banjos with 1/2 inch lines including draw straws. Big filter to protect frame mounted Raptor 150's and then running thru factory filter. Both trucks have needle valve and also Fuel pressure test ports for checking gauge accuracy. 

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One of you may have answered this, but is it a good idea to still have a threaded port (valve like on a car tire) on the vp44 side just as it was from the factory for testing pressure or flow?  I’m probably over engineering by this point but its only a couple of bucks to add it to the 90* fitting.  Has anyone had trouble easily checking the power steering level and getting the twist cap/stick out with the big line kit/test port on the 90* fitting?  Or even just with the big line kit?  Looks close but not too bad. 

@JAG1 “Both trucks have needle valve and also Fuel pressure test ports for checking gauge accuracy.”  Is this the valve at the vp44 90* elbow?

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Posted (edited)

Mine is on the 90 at the VP but you could add another tapped tee in the big line for a test port. And yes the bigline kit is bit in the of the power steering but I still dont have any trouble removing the power steering cap but you will need a long narrow funnel for adding fluid.

Edited by dripley

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

Is there a need to have both a shut off valve and snubber?

Any time you adding tubing to a fuel system it is wise to have a shut off valve at the tap point. Then you can have the snubber. This just a precaution if the tubing is to fail you can just simply turn the valve off and then continue driving to home or a repair shop to get things fixed.

 

19 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

Is the distance from the big line kit to the fender too short to eliminate fuel hammer?

5 foot of tubing helps reduce the finally pulse after the snubber. More distance the better. This is one of the killer of fuel pressure gauges when there no enough distance.

 

19 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

Is it just as easy and more durable to use fuel hose over air brake line to connect to the sender unit?  (Thinking back to the days of my youth using copper over plastic line for oil pressure gauge installs.)

Air Brake is more robust of a tubing. It will not become brittle with time and can handle being push around out of your way without failure or breaking like nylon typically did. Air Brake is small enough to route for mechanical gauges without the need of thick braid hose which is extremely difficult.

 

19 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

How did you wire this gauge to the factory wiring harness without a bunch of splices or a spider web of connections?

That is super easy. I just did a gauge install for @mr.obvious in Ontario, OR. We got two fuse taps and one when into Fuse 9 for power, then the illumination into Fuse 5. As for routing the gauge wiring I hooked the sensors all up and the at the point at which they all met I then wrap the loom with electrical tap and pull it all there the boot in the dash. Then you need to remove the dash bezel and headlight switch. I pull the loom up there the dash and using the headlight switch hole to finish the pull to the a-pillar. About 2 hours to put together.

 

When it was all done the whole thing looks very factory looking even the sensor brack @mr.obvious created and even updated my bracket. Looks awesome. 

 

IMG950400.jpg

IMG950402.jpg

IMG950407.jpg

IMG950409.jpg

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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3 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

One of you may have answered this, but is it a good idea to still have a threaded port (valve like on a car tire) on the vp44 side just as it was from the factory for testing pressure or flow?  I’m probably over engineering by this point but its only a couple of bucks to add it to the 90* fitting.  Has anyone had trouble easily checking the power steering level and getting the twist cap/stick out with the big line kit/test port on the 90* fitting?  Or even just with the big line kit?  Looks close but not too bad. 

@JAG1 “Both trucks have needle valve and also Fuel pressure test ports for checking gauge accuracy.”  Is this the valve at the vp44 90* elbow?

My test ports are just a 'T' plumbed into the 1/2'' fuel line hose with a cap on them. They aren't schrader valves (tire valves) like the one originally on the VP, they just a port to screw on a test gauge. The cap that unscrews keeps the fuel from pouring out. Vulcan Performance has those and is where I got mine.

 

Eric at Vulcan has everything you need. He is very fair on pricing too.

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16 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yeah I just called ol' Eric and getting info for another member and his truck and he's still making fuel system parts and kits. 

Good to hear. Eric not only has the parts, but also designed everything so his parts hit two bulls eyes with the same arrow. He is good man, but make sure you treat him right he had some bad customers in the past take the fun out of it for him.

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Thanks for the possibilities.  I think I spoke to Eric at Vulcan a few weeks ago when I started getting serious about installing a gauge.  Very knowledgeable and professional to speak with and he reaffirmed the value of this site and its owner when researching material for these trucks and mods. 

 

I wanted to get you all's opinion as well given different installs and ways of doing this.  The only thing i'm not sure of (need to ask Eric when we speak again) if he offers and what spec air brake line to purchase that is fuel compatible.  Also, @Mopar1973Man, does Eric offer the bracket you show in your article?  I'm guessing one is the FP sensor and the other is boost?  How did you get 5' of line under the hood as well?  I'm guessing route it up by the ABS then down to the bracket?  Does fuse #5 also dim with the dash lights or do I need to add a dimming devise and did you put and additional fuse on the line off the adapter?  I would image the wiring adapter fuse acts for both the power through the fuse box and the line off the adapter to the gauge.  I take it that you used a T under the fuel filter on the truck for @mr.obvious rather than an inline spliced T in the hose for attaching the needle valve and line?  The picture looks as if it screwed to the bottom of the filter housing.

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3 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

Eric offer the bracket you show in your article?

 

You can make that bracket fairly easy. @mr.obvious used a piece of angle iron from a bed frame and then drilled two hole close to the size of the fitting. Then soldered the fittings in place. Very strong little bracket.

 

3 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

I'm guessing one is the FP sensor and the other is boost?

 

Yes. You correct fuel pressure and boost sensors. 

 

3 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

Does fuse #5 also dim with the dash lights

 

Yes, fuse #5 does work with dimming feature.

 

3 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

How did you get 5' of line under the hood as well?

 

You can burn up 5 foot of line really quick by hiding the line in looms and different places. 

 

3 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

I take it that you used a T under the fuel filter on the truck for @mr.obvious rather than an inline spliced T in the hose for attaching the needle valve and line?

 

Tapped banjo bolt. This provided a 1/8 NPT fitting and rest is as you see.

 

3 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

The picture looks as if it screwed to the bottom of the filter housing.

 

Yup. The banjo bolt goes in the fitting under the fuel filter for a tap point. 

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The air btake hose is petroleum safe. @Mopar1973Man has always told me that he gets at napa. I have asked every napa around me for it and they dont know what it is. Then a few weeks ago I go into a Napa and ask for vacuum tubing and the guy takes into the back where the vacuum tubing is and they have rolls of it. Their shelf is labeled vacuum tube in magic marker. Printed on the tubing "air brake line".

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2 hours ago, dripley said:

The air btake hose is petroleum safe. @Mopar1973Man has always told me that he gets at napa. I have asked every napa around me for it and they dont know what it is. Then a few weeks ago I go into a Napa and ask for vacuum tubing and the guy takes into the back where the vacuum tubing is and they have rolls of it. Their shelf is labeled vacuum tube in magic marker. Printed on the tubing "air brake line".

About 30 years ago I went to work at a Napa store, before they used computers. First thing owner told me if I had spare time look through parts books to get familiar with them. Several times he told customers that a part wasn’t available and I showed him it was. Don’t know how they do that now days  with computers. 

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@Mopar1973Man Is the banjo fitting you used on the install above still using the factory hard line or the big line kit?  I’m guessing the banjo is between the housing and line?  Is this a better way to tap the line vs. cutting the rubber big line kit mid way to the vp44?  Any clearance issues vs. mid way T’s on the rubber line?

 

I see folks using 1/2” and 3/8” big line filter to pump kits.  Given that i’ll prob go fass 95 or airdog 100 when the day comes (prob sooner than later), most of those are 1/2” fuel lines anyway so “in theory” 3/8” could be a restriction point.  But as a side note, doesn’t increased volume lower psi (given a stock in-tank lift pump setup)?  Not that i’m suggesting factory pumps and hard lines are a better setup, rather food for thought given a fixed lower psi pump vs. an adjustable higher volume/psi aftermarket setup.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, MyOle2500 said:

@Mopar1973Man Is the banjo fitting you used on the install above still using the factory hard line or the big line kit?

At this time the owner does not have plans for AirDog or FASS. He is thinking of upgrading to a 1/2" big line kit from Vulcan and replacing his lift pump. We have a crazy idea to try but I'm not going to tell what we are up to till we find out if it will work or not. Little tip from Vulcan Performance we are going to do some testing on.

 

11 minutes ago, MyOle2500 said:

I’m guessing the banjo is between the housing and line?

Just remove the banjo in the bottom and replace with the tapped banjo. That all we did. Then hooked the plumbing to the open port now. 

 

11 minutes ago, MyOle2500 said:

Is this a better way to tap the line vs. cutting the rubber big line kit mid way to the vp44?

We went this route being he's going to want the gauge for a trip to Cally very soon. Just to protect his VP44

 

11 minutes ago, MyOle2500 said:

Any clearance issues vs. mid way T’s on the rubber line?

No. None.

 

11 minutes ago, MyOle2500 said:

Is this a better way to tap the line vs. cutting the rubber big line kit mid way to the vp44?

Actually the setup I've got is better lest restrictions. The stock line is 6mm ID and the banjo are even more restrictive.

 

11 minutes ago, MyOle2500 said:

I see folks using 1/2” and 3/8” big line filter to pump kits.

1/2" is the best. Only a 1 to 2 PSI drop from idle to WOT with 500 HP. 3/8" is going to have more pressure drop than 1/2" from idle to WOT like 3 to 5 PSI drop. 3/8" is OK for stockish setups. More power needs more volume. Best to just go big and not even worry.

 

 

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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Thanks again!! I hope to get the parts order in soon and get this project rolling.  

 

As a side note, I found Isspro used to ( maybe still does) make a kit.  It uses the grease gun hose (or similar) with the needle valve on one end with a banjo fitting and the snubber and sender unit combo on the other.   Interesting that they offered this given many say it isn’t long enough to lessen the water hammer effect.

 

Food for thought.

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10 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

It uses the grease gun hose (or similar) with the needle valve on one end with a banjo fitting and the snubber and sender unit combo on the other.

 

Don't grease gun hose does absolutely nothing. The sensor will absolutely fail. Too short and hose doesn't suppress nothing. 

 

10 hours ago, MyOle2500 said:

Interesting that they offered this given many say it isn’t long enough to lessen the water hammer effect.

 

Yup. Because the hose is rated for 4,000 PSI to 10 to 20 PSI is like a solid brick wall. It just passes the pulse right up the chain to the sender. Again too short to allow for travel to fade the pulsers. Hence why I say 5 foot or more. 

 

Also let me know. I can program the warning lights on the gauges as well. I've got the kit for jacking in and programming. 

image.jpeg

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8 hours ago, gipperkid said:

What air line fittings are being used for the gauge senders?

Sfandard compresion fittings for me.

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PTC fittings. Push To Connect fittings.

 

No ferrels, no compression nut. PTC are seal sealing and work very well for low pressure applications. 

 

Image result for push to connect fittings

 

Reusable. If there is any tubing problems you can just simply push the collar back to release the tubing. Not you can trim off the bad part or just replace. Push the tubing back in and it self seals and locks.

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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