Trouble with my Ram

[JAG1]

Timothy, every one of us have gone thru the exact same scenario that you are going thru. We have all had the modify our trucks to keep them going for the long haul by taking care of the 4 items above. Plus..... I might add that we have all learned to do the work ourselves because we are tired of the less than fully educated mechanics throwing parts and ideas at these great trucks that drain the pocketbook.

 

I was so afraid to change out my VP44 on my own, but these guys not only coached me they helped me every step of the way. Unlike many experiences having to pay for work to be done...... I experienced the sheer satisfaction of doing a tight and careful job. It was wonderful when she fired off so smooth after a new VP. Even my plumber who is mostly interested in going on vacation all the time had to comment on how smooth my truck ran. He got in it and says, '' man this thing runs smooth, nice. Where did you find this truck?'' Well I had taken care of the 4 items with the correct mods as well as a new VP (left me stranded on a Friday rush hour on a two lane road). Plus I had to replace the vibration damper from the previous owner letting the puke bottle overflow onto everything up front. I got the expensive one, not aftermarket which also made a difference as everything else I did.

 

These trucks need an owner that really wants to take care of them and they will return many years savings. I invested in all the tools and found I enjoy the work a lot. I have two of these trucks and in just two measly weekends I accomplished 1700 bucks worth the work on my own doing more upgrades and maintenance. Very satisfying. I couldn't have done it without the folks on this forum to help me. I hope that you discover the same enjoyment too.

Edited December 3, 2019 by JAG1

[Timothy]

6 hours ago, JAG1 said:

Timothy, every one of us have gone thru the exact same scenario that you are going thru. We have all had the modify our trucks to keep them going for the long haul by taking care of the 4 items above. Plus..... I might add that we have all learned to do the work ourselves because we are tired of the less than fully educated mechanics throwing parts and ideas at these great trucks that drain the pocketbook.

 

I was so afraid to change out my VP44 on my own, but these guys not only coached me they helped me every step of the way. Unlike many experiences having to pay for work to be done...... I experienced the sheer satisfaction of doing a tight and careful job. It was wonderful when she fired off so smooth after a new VP. Even my plumber who is mostly interested in going on vacation all the time had to comment on how smooth my truck ran. He got in it and says, '' man this thing runs smooth, nice. Where did you find this truck?'' Well I had taken care of the 4 items with the correct mods as well as a new VP (left me stranded on a Friday rush hour on a two lane road). Plus I had to replace the vibration damper from the previous owner letting the puke bottle overflow onto everything up front. I got the expensive one, not aftermarket which also made a difference as everything else I did.

 

These trucks need an owner that really wants to take care of them and they will return many years savings. I invested in all the tools and found I enjoy the work a lot. I have two of these trucks and in just two measly weekends I accomplished 1700 bucks worth the work on my own doing more upgrades and maintenance. Very satisfying. I couldn't have done it without the folks on this forum to help me. I hope that you discover the same enjoyment too.

I hate to keep repeating myself but unless I can be 100% sure my problem is the VP44 I don't have $1000 for that at the moment!! I am going to rent the fuel pressure guage and hopefully that will give me a more definite answer?? This problem has been going on now for quite awhile, And now that its winter it is really bad!! At work I cant plug my truck in and when I go to leave I try and let it warm up for as long as I can. But it still almost imediately goes into limp mode and I end up holding up traffic for as long as the engine takes to kick in and run properly!! I know its not the Turbo anymore because I took the turbo out and got the wastegate linkage unstuck!! It was seriously seized up!! Anyway unfortunately doing that didn't seem to do anything at all!! So now im gonna need to check fuel pressure and hopefully that tells me whats going on for sure?? Ive just heard things like Crank sensor. Cam sensor. And two different fuel pumps!! I gotta figure this out soon!! lol

10 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

^^^^^

You can add extra 2cycle oil or use biodiesel to buy yourself some time

Thanks!! I may just try that!! Will adding those things to the fuel possibly make my engine not go into limp mode when cold??

9 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Basically the timing piston is galled up and no longer slides easy. P0216 code will be tossed. VP44 requires replacement.

 

P0215, P0216, P0251, P0252, P0253 and p0254 all require replacement of the injection pump. (VP44)

 

4 ways of killing the VP44...

 

1. Lack of fuel lubricity. Bosch requires fuel lubricity of 460 HFRR or less. US fuels are 520 HFRR and possibly greater. 2 Cycle oil has be proven for over 10 plus year to extend the life of VP44. 

2. Filtration. Stock filter is only 10 micron. Upgraded filters can be low as 3 micron.

3. Fuel pressure (14 to 20 PSI). Fuel pressure is what keeps cooling and lubrication going. Low fuel pressure can be just as bad as low oil pressure on the engine. Like myself I'm double stacked 3um on the AirDog and then 7um filter in the stock can.

4. AC Noise. AC noise from a bad alternator will cause damage to the PSG electronics of the VP44. Which is typically the P052x codes. Acceptable AC voltage is 50mV AC or less.

 

Now showing that I would be looking into all the above. W-T ground wire mod and alternator replacement, added 2 cycle oil, fuel pressure gauge (14 to 20 PSI), etc.

 

Thanks again!! I will go rent the fuel pressure guage. Then let u know what I come up with. Looks like I mite have to save my pennies for a new VP44. I think u mite be rite about the piston thing. Sounds logical!! lol. Just don't want that to be it!!! lmao

[JAG1]

Timothy, learn how to do all the excellent work on your own truck and acquire all the tools. Then when you've learned you can start your own small shop and make a killer income. Don't mess around with things that don't let you get to where you want to be.

 

But by all means take excellent care of your customers cause when you can really honestly do that it will be returned to you many times over. Once you get to where you enjoy the good things you do for others, the money will take care of itself. Focus on what you can do better for your customers and your ideas will build your reputation like non other.

 

Don't be like Dripley cause he's always throwing himself into the fryer.......

Edited December 4, 2019 by JAG1

[Dieselfuture]

7 hours ago, JAG1 said:

Don't mess around with things that don't let you get to where you want to be.

[Haggar]

Tim,

All I can do is commiserate.  You have the exact same symptoms my brother did, with the only exception you got the P0216!  He never got a code.  Talk about being unsure of ourselves.  Once done we wished we had not put up with the BS for so long...

 

I know you want it to not be the IP.  and you wish you could prove it to be 100%.   You are at 95% plus now.   You can spend a lot of time trying to find that other 5% and still won't be 100% certain.

But it is.  Its not that bad of a job.  You will be happy when you are done.  (do injectors and set the valve lash at the same time btw.)

 

GL

Hag

Edited December 4, 2019 by Haggar

[Mopar1973Man]

15 hours ago, Timothy said:

Looks like I mite have to save my pennies for a new VP44. I think u mite be rite about the piston thing. Sounds logical!! lol. Just don't want that to be it!!! lmao

 

I've got a pump here that the timing piston will not move with human forces. You have to heat the body of the VP44 with propane torch to even remove the timing piston. This is a junk pump I've got for study reasons. 

 

As for repairing the VP44 you need a Bosch 815 test stand to calibrate and flash the PSG unit on top. Sad to say there is nothing a end person can do with repairing VP44 properly. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[JAG1]

Almost everyone here that are regular visitors to this site have learned to change out their VP44. It is the easiest of all the pumps to change. That's a BIG plus for keeping these second gens, not to mention many other benefits you cannot find on newer rigs.

[dripley]

$1k for a VP sucks especiallyif you don't have it. Condsider this, mine went 2 days after the 216 code appeared. I was 150 miles from home and 100 miles from the job. This added another $700 to the failure. Fortunately the company I work for picked up the rental car and the motel and I am not out that cash. If yours dies in a bad place it just gets more expensive. 

 

There are 2 good articles on the repair here and any number of us that are willing to help you thru it. It is not a difficult repair if you can turn a bolt. But slow and deliberate is the way to go for the first time.

[Mopar1973Man]

 

Dodge FSM book has there method of changing which is fine. My article I've wrote will save a bit of time. Shop labor rate for VP44 replacement is 4 hours. I'm capable now of changing a VP44 injection pump in a merew 1.5 hours now in a hay field in a rainstorm (personal record). All the tools should be shown in the article. The only special tools is a 1/2" torque wrench, and VP44 gear puller.

 

[Evan]

I've yet to do a VP I lucked out and my truck had a new one installed only a fee miles before I got it..

I have my fingers crossed now because that was over 12 years ago and 180k miles.

 

When it's time I'll probably do a pump from blue chip. He has helped me in the passed and really seems to know his stuff.

[Mopar1973Man]

23 hours ago, Evan said:

When it's time I'll probably do a pump from blue chip

 

Be aware BlueChip is not a true rebuilder. He does not have Bosch 815 test stand and not capable of flashing PSG and bench testing the VP44 pump before its sold to the customer.

 

This is a Bosch 815 test stand for calibration of the VP44 PSG module.

 

[dripley]

The pump I just replaced was a BC pump. 270k out of it. At the time I bought it, 2010, it was the only pump I could find that came with a new FPCM/PSG on it. He did advertise some other extras so I bought one. $1700 at the time, but I had the money at the time. The one one from DAP was under $1k. While I got good service from the BC pump I am not sure that it is that much better than what I bought now. Only time will tell. 

[Timothy]

16 hours ago, dripley said:

The pump I just replaced was a BC pump. 270k out of it. At the time I bought it, 2010, it was the only pump I could find that came with a new FPCM/PSG on it. He did advertise some other extras so I bought one. $1700 at the time, but I had the money at the time. The one one from DAP was under $1k. While I got good service from the BC pump I am not sure that it is that much better than what I bought now. Only time will tell. 

Hello everyone who has been trying to help me with the limp mode problem with my truck when cold!! I got the fuel pressure guage. With just key on and lift pump running I got 18psi. With truck running I got 18psi. and under load even in limp mode pressure doesn't drop below 12-14psi. Fuel pressure seems to be good. Now what do I do?? Could it be an air problem?? I did take the turbo out and got the wastegate completely unstuck!! And ran air thru the diaphragm and the arm moved fine. Is there a chance that with the wastegate stuck closed for so long that that made something else go bad?? Please any new ideas would be great!! I would really like this limp mode problem solved before I sell the truck!!! Thanks again. PS: Not sure if I mentioned this but the other morning before work I had a few extra minutes so I let the truck warm up all the way before driving. When I did drive there was no limp mode!! Drove great all the way to work. More suggestions please on what problem could be when cold PLEASE!! Should I put some 2cycle oil or biodiesel in with gas??

[Tractorman]

 

1 hour ago, Timothy said:

More suggestions please on what problem could be when cold PLEASE!! Should I put some 2cycle oil or biodiesel in with gas??

 

Hopefully, there is no gas in your tank.

 

Your question about two stoke oil has already been answered in a previous post  - see below...

 

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 8:34 AM, dripley said:

I was going to suggest some 2 cycle oil also. A couple quarts in a full tank, it might help lube the timing piston buy you some time.

 

- John

 

 

[Timothy]

3 hours ago, Tractorman said:

 

 

Hopefully, there is no gas in your tank.

 

Your question about two stoke oil has already been answered in a previous post  - see below...

 

 

- John

 

 

Yes correct!! No gas in Tank!! FUEL!!!! lol. Anyway im just getting very aggravated with this whole situation!! This problem has been going on for quite awhile now and doesn't seem like im getting anywhere on the fix!! I don't need a diesel truck anymore so I would like to sell it to someone who can use it!! But I would like to have it running rite for the next owner. I would also like to get as much money for it as possible!! Anyway the reason I mentioned the 2cycle oil thing again is because now that ive done fuel pressure test and nothing seems to be wrong with pump I was just wondering if it was even worth doing?? U say a couple quarts for a full tank. Any type ok?? Thanks. Guess it cant hurt. 

Edited December 8, 2019 by JAG1

[dripley]

31 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Yes correct!! No gas in Tank!! FUEL!!!! lol. Anyway im just getting very aggravated with this whole situation!! This problem has been going on for quite awhile now and doesn't seem like im getting anywhere on the fix!! I don't need a diesel truck anymore so I would like to sell it to someone who can use it!! But I would like to have it running rite for the next owner. I would also like to get as much money for it as possible!! Anyway the reason I mentioned the 2cycle oil thing again is because now that ive done fuel pressure test and nothing seems to be wrong with pump I was just wondering if it was even worth doing?? U say a couple courts in full tank. Any type ok?? Thanks. Guess it cant hurt. 

Wally world 2 stroke is fine and the cheapest I have found. Any TCW3 2 stroke will work. If the diesel your are buying has bio diesel in it you are good as is. 

 

The fuel pressure you checked is from the lift pump. The pump that is failing is the the injection pump/VP. 

[Timothy]

7 minutes ago, dripley said:

Wally world 2 stroke is fine and the cheapest I have found. Any TCW3 2 stroke will work. If the diesel your are buying has bio diesel in it you are good as is. 

 

The fuel pressure you checked is from the lift pump. The pump that is failing is the the injection pump/VP. 

I have the guage connected to the fitting on the back of the fuel filter. How do I tell if the injection pump is working properly??

 

[dripley]

45 minutes ago, Timothy said:

I have the guage connected to the fitting on the back of the fuel filter. How do I tell if the injection pump is working properly??

 

For a permanent installation you would want the sensor after the fuel filter. You can tell if the filter is getting clogged by seeing a pressure drop on the gauge.

 

As far as the injection pump, the 216 code is telling you it is malfunctioning. The way it is working is telling you the same thing. I know of nothing else you can do but try the 2 stroke and if it starts working right, just another confirmation the pump is shot. But the 2 stroke will just be a band aid.

[Timothy]

2 hours ago, Timothy said:

I have the guage connected to the fitting on the back of the fuel filter. How do I tell if the injection pump is working properly??

 

Thanks so much!! Im done. Just gonna sell truck as is!! 

[Mopar1973Man]

16 hours ago, Timothy said:

Just gonna sell truck as is!! 

 

Such a shame. Walking past a good truck that is rated for 1 million miles. I'm at 402k miles now.