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Hey guys, quick question.

 

I ordered a Nations 180A alternator for my 02 cummins. Is it a drop in/plug and play? Does anything need to be changed with it?

 

I have the bosch 136A currently and am trying to reduce AC ripple. 

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Have you done the W-T modification and installed a fuse in the blue wire from alternator to the PCM

 

 

 

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Yes, to protect the electronics in the PCM, ECM, VP44 from AC voltage and short circuiting in the charging system.

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59 minutes ago, HOUTX02 said:

Hey guys, quick question.

 

I ordered a Nations 180A alternator for my 02 cummins. Is it a drop in/plug and play? Does anything need to be changed with it?

 

I have the bosch 136A currently and am trying to reduce AC ripple. 

Yes it’s plug and play but as @IBMobile said I highly recommend the W-T mod. 

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The stock charge lead is too small for 180A alternator and the PDC fuse is too small. So the W-T mod and the PCM protection fuse is requirement to make it work correctly. You'll need a circuit breaker most likely 200A. You can do fuses but make sure to buy more than just one or two. Then make sure to care tools for said fuse so you can change it. I like the circuit breaker is reset-able works pretty good as long as it hidden from hi heat. I've got mine buried on the firewall side of the passenger side battery tray. 

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Ok thanks, Forgive my ignorance here.... I understand that the W-T ground mod is too help reduce AC ripple; And the PCM protection fuse is for proctecting the PCM incase of a rare short correct? So why are these required for the  Nations 180A? Not trying to argue, just trying to understand. Nations told me it was a drop in and plug and play...

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36 minutes ago, HOUTX02 said:

Ok thanks, Forgive my ignorance here.... I understand that the W-T ground mod is too help reduce AC ripple; And the PCM protection fuse is for proctecting the PCM incase of a rare short correct? So why are these required for the  Nations 180A? Not trying to argue, just trying to understand. Nations told me it was a drop in and plug and play...

@W-T explains it in his post but the short version is Dodge did a terrible job grounding those wires.  I’m still running the 150amp circuit breaker and 6 gauge wire on mine. Just recently adding on board air with my exhaust break with no issues yet but it’s still pretty cool here still. I will probably upgrade to 4 gauge wire and 200 amp breaker for CYA by spring time. 

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:iagree:

They will plug and play. The added protection is just cheap insurance so you dont fry anything. I have done the ground mod and with my existing alternator I had .035 ac volts and after the mod, same alternator, I had .010.

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The AC noise is for when the nations begins making AC noise.  It is an alternator and just like all alternators no matter who made them, It makes AC power.  Electronics inside the alternator clip the AC waves and make them look like DC.  When those electronics begin expelling their magic smoke, you can get more AC than you really want.

 

While the alternator is making the AC power and turning it into DC, all voltage regulation is done inside the PCM.  On many vehicles this was actually done at the alternator itself.  Chrysler for many years on many vehicles decided to incorporate voltage regulation in the PCM.  There are probably many good reasons to do this, but to us average guys, when the voltage regulation lets its magic smoke out, it can take the whole PCM with it. 

 

All we are trying to do is make the magic smoke stay where it is supposed to.  or when the inevitable happens and the magic smoke escapes, it escapes from parts that are easily and more cheaply replaced.

 

HTH

 

Hag

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35 minutes ago, Haggar said:

All we are trying to do is make the magic smoke stay where it is supposed to.  or when the inevitable happens and the magic smoke escapes, it escapes from parts that are easily and more cheaply replaced.

 

Bingo!

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1 hour ago, Haggar said:

The AC noise is for when the nations begins making AC noise.  It is an alternator and just like all alternators no matter who made them, It makes AC power.  Electronics inside the alternator clip the AC waves and make them look like DC.  When those electronics begin expelling their magic smoke, you can get more AC than you really want.

 

While the alternator is making the AC power and turning it into DC, all voltage regulation is done inside the PCM.  On many vehicles this was actually done at the alternator itself.  Chrysler for many years on many vehicles decided to incorporate voltage regulation in the PCM.  There are probably many good reasons to do this, but to us average guys, when the voltage regulation lets its magic smoke out, it can take the whole PCM with it. 

 

All we are trying to do is make the magic smoke stay where it is supposed to.  or when the inevitable happens and the magic smoke escapes, it escapes from parts that are easily and more cheaply replaced.

 

HTH

 

Hag

 

34 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Bingo!


Got it!

My next question is am I ok to install this alternator now without doing these right away?

  I plan on doing this eventually once I build up the courage to start splitting wire looms apart lol 

 The charge lead is too small? Like the gauge of the wire? If so what size is it currently and what do I need?

  PDC fuse is too small? What is it currently and what do I need? What is the circuit breaker for? ( Obv it breaks the circuit, but why is it needed in this case?)

 

thanks!

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Your first question is Yes.  Its fine to install without doing any mods.

 

For the others, hopefully someone will chime in.  You are going to need to read and reread the mod instructions so you can grasp what is needed in your instance.  I think what the other guys were saying, is they are only protected to 150 amps.  you are putting a 180 amp alternator on, and they are warning you to not copy them, their system is a bit lower amperage.

 

Hag

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Im interested in measuring the level of AC ripple coming from a brand new Nations alternator. If you can do that for us HOUTX02,that would be very much appreciated. And then measure the level after the W-T mods. It may be more important you do the mods if higher output alternator brings with it a higher amount of AC ripple .

Edited by JAG1

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As a member of the electrically challanged club, dont let opening the wiring loom bother you. There is not a lot of wires in that loom. The mod is pretty straight forward if you can look around all of the jargon explaining why you should do it. Dont get me wrong it is good info. After you have read it,  just look at the physical part of the work and it is not difficult.

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Good advice........ Just do the mechanics part like Dripley said and it will come simple to you.

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2 hours ago, HOUTX02 said:

The charge lead is too small? Like the gauge of the wire? If so what size is it currently and what do I need?

  PDC fuse is too small? What is it currently and what do I need? What is the circuit breaker for? ( Obv it breaks the circuit, but why is it needed in this case?)

I will be using 4 gauge wire. The 140 amp PDC fuse will no longer be used. Run The 4 gauge lead charge wire through to the 200 amp breaker to the passenger side positive post on the battery. I have an additional 2 gauge welding wire connecting both negative sides of the batteries  together. It helps to balance the batteries when charging. 

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18 hours ago, Threadzy said:

I will be using 4 gauge wire. The 140 amp PDC fuse will no longer be used. Run The 4 gauge lead charge wire through to the 200 amp breaker to the passenger side positive post on the battery. I have an additional 2 gauge welding wire connecting both negative sides of the batteries  together. It helps to balance the batteries when charging. 

The 140a fuse wont be used because the breaker will replace it?

 

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1 minute ago, HOUTX02 said:

The 140a fuse wont be used because the breaker will replace it?

 

Sincw you move the charge wire to the passanger battery, you have bypassed it anyway. But to answer your question, yes.

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20 minutes ago, HOUTX02 said:

The 140a fuse wont be used because the breaker will replace it?

 

 

Yup. I've got to do this mod here very soon for my landlord at my other shop hes got a bad AC noise issues. I've already ordered his circuit breaker and its on my desk...

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17 minutes ago, dripley said:

Sincw you move the charge wire to the passanger battery, you have bypassed it anyway. But to answer your question, yes.

And helps reduce AC ripple going thru the batteries instead of going to the the PDC.

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So... the general consensus is I am good to got on installing the nations 180a this weekend without messing anything up,  and to further help with the ac ripple, do the w/t mod and pcm protection mod.

 

also what are yalls recommendations on batteries? I have optima red tops now and am not a big fan of them. 

 

 

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Actually it reduces the AC noise because its is NOT running beside the ground for the ECM and VP44. Then the grounds are over 4 feet shorter. The charge lead is now on the passenger side and the grounds go to the driver side. There is distance between the ground leads and the alternator charge lead now. 

 

Stock setup you can see the ground and charge lead running parallel to each other.

DSCF4415.JPG

 

After the mod... ECM and VP44 grounds are tied to the gear case. 

DSCF4427.JPG

 

Then the alternator charge line goes to the passenger battery but passing through a 150A circuit breaker.

DSCF4424.JPG

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14 minutes ago, HOUTX02 said:

also what are yalls recommendations on batteries? I have optima red tops now and am not a big fan of them. 

Walmart batteries work fine if you maintain them

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Just now, Dieselfuture said:

Walmart batteries work fine if you maintain them

 

Walmart battery work great I'm almost to 10 years on these batteries.

Tidbit there is only 3 companies that manufacture batteries. Then on top of that Walmart batteries are the very same battery the factory installed back in the day typically an upgrade to 810 CCA or so.

 

AGM batteries I'm no fond of at all seen several explode, can't add distill water. Then you can't equalize charge the batteries to clean the plates of sulphation. Being all the battery in my vehicles last over 10 years I'll stick with lead acid batteries. Even the batteries power my home are going to surpass 10 years soon. I've got a 1,000 pounds of lead acid batteries. (Solar and hydro powered home).

 

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