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  I replaced my VP44 pump using the procedure laid out by Mopar1973man. Thanks for that. After just joining the forum, AND after reading about the TC/transmission problems due to faulty alternator and grounding issues, I was wondering if the APPS re-learn procedure should be part of the VP44 replacement procedures?

     I was having an issue with 47re not wanting to kickdown or maybe no throttle response, is a better way to describe it ,after the transmission shifted into 5th gear. It kinda wants to buck when giving it more throttle and has progressed to slowing down on inclines even with peddle to the floor. This morning I removed the Alt fuse and unplugged the field wire to Alternator and symptoms remain the same. Fluid is full and color is fresh in the transmission. No MIL on dash. 

      Next job is to clean and re-tighten all grounds, remove all add-ons (amp, edge, back up leds, tranny cooler fan) and test the Alt.( even though the "test drive" didn't change the issue I should use the meter to verify any anomaly.

      I hadn't read any posts exactly describing my issue of the tranny shifting through every gear as it should, with plenty of torque and response, but then no response once 5th gear is achieved. It has progressively worsened in the past 4 weeks since the VP44 install. But was doing it before and I just expected it to be the PPump finally failing. The ppump controller death code had been set and check engine on the dash over a year.

    I will report back after doing the ground maintenance and volt testing. I did the APPS reset yesterday. I have used this forum info for several repairs and diagnosing. I like the fact that most posts and replies to posts aren't a bunch of users writing replies just to be posting, but actual tried it, did it, it worked, real time, real knowledge replies. Hope I can contribute to this sight every now and then. For the most part, my truck has been great and purchased as maybe the last truck I will ever need. I'm tapping this out on my laptop so anybody reading this on a phone is gonna be like."shut-upalready" . Thanks for any insight.

(Oh yeah, fuel mileage is really bad. I changed the fuel filter prior to the VP44 job)

Edited by InGear
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I guess by ppump you mean the lift pump? How is your fuel pressure and what type of lift pump do you have?

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Should have written out vp44 instead of ppump. not sure of brand lift pump but it is mounted on the frame under the bed and I haven't checked the pressure. The edge has a low pressure alarm and it has only alarmed once after a filter change where I used a different filter (not cummins)  that was denser material. The alarm is set for below 10 psi . 

 

Update to post. I cleaned up all grounds removed add-on accessory ground connections to test the alternator. I need a better Multimeter. Klein meter has vac~ . Showed 028 whether reading at alternator or battery. I will pick up a better meter.

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On 2/14/2020 at 5:21 PM, dripley said:

I guess by ppump you mean the lift pump? How is your fuel pressure and what type of lift pump do you have?

I cleaned off the lift pump and got a shot of it with the phone. It's a FASS hpfp Mounted on the frame in front of the fuel tank. Also has a small rusty looking inline filter between the tank and lift pump. Looks like a 1/2" od. fuel hose from the lift pump to the stock filter housing on the engine. I ordered a fuel pressure gauge and tee. It may be in this week but this little town I live in is about 5 days away from most parts orders. I'll update as I progress. Thanks

Today I changed out the alternator. I had found one for a good price at Summit Racing two years back after I had just put a new pair of DEKA batteries in the truck. I was having trouble find a DENSO reman anywhere except Summit. Summit ended up backordering it until June. Today I decided to install it while I troubleshoot this thing. I think I'll expose that harness and gameplan the "W-T ground wire mod". Do you have a pic of the final look of the mod. It looks like from your pics, that you only end up with the ground that splits from the connector that goes into the firewall on the passenger side and the ground that runs past the alternator is eliminated and then the wires that were tied into the eliminated wire are all joined together and rerouted to ne grounded to the gear case. I'm sur it will be clearer when I get them all exposed and separated.

Edited by InGear

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15 hours ago, InGear said:

I was having trouble find a DENSO reman anywhere except Summit.

 

NAPA. They sell denso alternator all the time.

 

15 hours ago, InGear said:

Do you have a pic of the final look of the mod. It looks like from your pics,

 

Basically the grounds go to the gear case, then the recycled connector on the passenger side is used as a jumper from the driver side battery to the gear case bolt. 

 

Alternator charge lead is completely re-used. Jumps to the rear of the battery try and hooks to the 150A circuit breaker then the remaining lead wrap back around to the positive post and hooked up. 

 

Basically you don't need to by any wire. Just the 150A circuit breaker and the ring terminals. All wire can be re-used. 

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Today, my fuel pressure gauge came in and I removed the low pressure sensor from the inlet to the vp44 )to install the gauge rig for testing the lift pump pressure. 

Truck at idle shows 15psi on the analog gauge. I put in in gear, foot on the brake to simulate load and at  1750rpm gauge read 10psi. I put it back in park and slow revved it to 2000rpm and it read 11psi.  

I'm not sure how old this fass pump is.

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The pressure should be adjustable from what little I read about. You google the pump check it out. I personally try for a low pressre of 14 with a high of 20. There is more than one school of thought on this. Free reving is not any good for any pressure testing.

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I got my new to me DMM and tested the new alternator. Tests good at battery but some noise at the alternator (0.033 to0.047) Not bad but... Took the truck out for a test drive to watch the fuel pressure gauge. I had it run up under the hood and wedged against the windshield under the wiper.) The pressure at it lowest point( motoring up a steep hill in the neighborhood was 8 or 9 psi and on the highway up a slight 2 mile grade running 70 it was steady at 10psi. 

At idle or no load the gauge showed 15psi and no higher. 

The truck, with the new alternator (Denso reman) and all the grounds cleaned up, plugs to transmission checked and wiped off and the middle plug at the PCM checked for dirt or corrosion, actually performed somewhat better. It didn't "fall on it's face" after shifting into overdrive. It was slow to respond at the peddle and did stumble a bit but would respond to the pedal and move on down the road. So making steps in the right direction. I peeled apart the wire loom and exposed everything. I've been reading a long thread on the W-T mod and just came to the one about running the 4/0 jumper wire between the batteries. Right now I have a solar battery tender run through a10 amp charge controller tied into the passenger battery. I was thinking that maybe I would move the solar charge wire to the drivers battery once I move the Alternator charge wire to the passenger battery and skip the 4/0 jumper wire mod. I'm gonna order the ring terminals and circuit protector and go to the parts store for the M5 x 0.08 bolt. 

There is a hole on the gear case on top just under the corner of the bell crank bracket. It has threads. another hole on the lower back side but threads I have yet to clear. If this is the normal point for grounding, I may have to chase with a tap. It was full of clay dirt. Also is there any advantage to leaving the plug in the ground wire that is salvaged from the passenger side? Thanks.

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On 2/21/2020 at 7:27 PM, dripley said:

The pressure should be adjustable from what little I read about. You google the pump check it out. I personally try for a low pressre of 14 with a high of 20. There is more than one school of thought on this. Free reving is not any good for any pressure testing.

I pretty sure, without uninstalling it, that this FASS doesn't have adjustment. I'm looking at the airdog 150 online, just not quite sure which one yet. I have 15psi at idle and 9/10psi running up a steep grade at 10mph and mild grade at 70 mph.  

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5 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

FASS 150 is just like AirDog 150. Spring and check ball. To adjust fuel pressure you shim the spring with washers. 

His fass hpfp is an odd looking pump for my eyes anyway.

1 hour ago, InGear said:

I pretty sure, without uninstalling it, that this FASS doesn't have adjustment. I'm looking at the airdog 150 online, just not quite sure which one yet. I have 15psi at idle and 9/10psi running up a steep grade at 10mph and mild grade at 70 mph.  

Per install instructions I looked at on line it is adjustable and has an adjustment screw on the pump body. Sorry I cant link it but you can look up the instructions on line.

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6 minutes ago, dripley said:

His fass hpfp is an odd looking pump for my eyes anyway.

Per install instructions I looked at on line it is adjustable and has an adjustment screw on the pump body. Sorry I cant link it but you can look up the instructions on line.

I emailed Fass  this morning and just received a reply. I sent them the model and serial #'s and it the pump was made 09/06/2007 and is non-adjustable. The rep said it was a 150gph pump that they do not make non-adjustable anymore. 4yr. warranty with a new one from FASS. Is ther any difference between FASS and AIRDOG?

38 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

FASS 150 is just like AirDog 150. Spring and check ball. To adjust fuel pressure you shim the spring with washers. 

Good to know. are there replacement seals?

 

39 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

FASS 150 is just like AirDog 150. Spring and check ball. To adjust fuel pressure you shim the spring with washers. 

 

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1 minute ago, InGear said:

I emailed Fass  this morning and just received a reply. I sent them the model and serial #'s and it the pump was made 09/06/2007 and is non-adjustable. The rep said it was a 150gph pump that they do not make non-adjustable anymore. 4yr. warranty with a new one from FASS. Is ther any difference between FASS and AIRDOG?

That might explain it then. Fass and AD are basically the same kind of pump. If I was getting one I would get one with filter head built into it for what the hpfp costs.

 

Now in the FWIW column we have several memebers here that a running fuel pressures quite similart o what you are seeing. And have been for along time with success. I personally like the higher pressure and will keep it there. More than one school of thought on this though.

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I'm waiting on a new Positive cable and Negative "jumper" for between the batteries to arrive today. I found a company out of Louiville, KY who custom made the positive with a whip soldered into the terminal for the new circuit breaker and my arm and leg are still attached,LOL. then check that ripple again after the WT-mod is complete. Then I'm leaning toward a little better fuel pressure if the mod cures my driveability problems. Snow in the air today so it may be tomorrow before I get the re-routing of the wires complete. Thanks for your input dripley and Mopar1973man. 

I emailed the FASS rep again about rebuild kit and instructions for increasing Fuel pressure.

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3 hours ago, InGear said:

I'm waiting on a new Positive cable and Negative "jumper" for between the batteries to arrive today. I found a company out of Louiville, KY who custom made the positive with a whip soldered into the terminal for the new circuit breaker and my arm and leg are still attached,LOL. then check that ripple again after the WT-mod is complete. Then I'm leaning toward a little better fuel pressure if the mod cures my driveability problems. Snow in the air today so it may be tomorrow before I get the re-routing of the wires complete. Thanks for your input dripley and Mopar1973man. 

I emailed the FASS rep again about rebuild kit and instructions for increasing Fuel pressure.

It looks DAP has a sale on some of their FASS titanium pumps. Might be worth a look.

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On 2/28/2020 at 2:51 PM, dripley said:

It looks DAP has a sale on some of their FASS titanium pumps. Might be worth a look.

Thanks I'll check that out.

On 2/18/2020 at 8:48 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

NAPA. They sell denso alternator all the time.

 

 

Basically the grounds go to the gear case, then the recycled connector on the passenger side is used as a jumper from the driver side battery to the gear case bolt. 

 

Alternator charge lead is completely re-used. Jumps to the rear of the battery try and hooks to the 150A circuit breaker then the remaining lead wrap back around to the positive post and hooked up. 

 

Basically you don't need to by any wire. Just the 150A circuit breaker and the ring terminals. All wire can be re-used. 

 

I am waiting on a inline fuse for the blue wire to finish my "WT mod". I was wondering what you think about moving my grid heater power feed from the battery post terminal connection to the now vacant alternator feed terminal in the fuse center on the 140amp fuse. One less exposed connection at the battery terminal. 

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No, the grid heaters both come on with the "wait to start" light" which is 180amps.  After starting they cycle one on and one off every few seconds which is only 90amps at a time.    

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14 hours ago, IBMobile said:

No, the grid heaters both come on with the "wait to start" light" which is 180amps

 

Close... 190 amp for both elements, 95 amps for one element. That alternator fuse can now be used for other accessories.  Personally that fuse is just to big for anything. 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/3/2020 at 8:28 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Close... 190 amp for both elements, 95 amps for one element. That alternator fuse can now be used for other accessories.  Personally that fuse is just to big for anything. 

Yes. I agree too big. I was thinking about taking an extra inline fuse holder and making a jumper from one stud to the other and remove the big fuse, then use it for accessory as needed. After THE WT- mod I was able to get the ripple down .013-.019 at alternator b+ , with the batteries full charge and readings were pretty steady after the grid heaters cut off. I was surprised. I tested the APPS using an analog volt meter probing the blue wire with black tracer. Key in on position. moving the pedal constant up and down steady and needle moved consistently smooth from 0.5 to 3.5 and back. Took it out for test run. Still has some stumbling issues ( not real responsive in the pedal after hitting overdrive) and now observed the fuel pressure fall to zero at full throttle. The Fass HDHP is 12 years old. I change the little inline pre filter but didn't get to go re-test. Pricing lift pumps on line. Right now I still have the stock filter location and the frame mounted Fass back at the tank on the frame. I'm gonna extend the probe wire from the blue/ blk tracer into the cab so I can watch the needle on the volt meter while highway testing tomorrow morning.

Edited by InGear

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4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Cleared up the noise issue at least... :thumbup2:

I need some troubleshooting advice

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i'm pretty certain that my lift pump is drawing through an in tank pump. The pump is dead. The wire are plugged into it and I traced it up under the hood and they are bundled in two wire looms and ther is a red wire that splits and is plugged into a relay. I guess this is the fuel pump start relay. I unplugged the Fass pump and Key on. No Noise. Bump starter. No noise. So Pump in tank, I'm guessing must be dead. The Old factory lift pump "block delete" is still attached but the lines that ran through it are unhooked. The Fass draws from the outlet of the in-tank pump and the return is still hooked into the intank pump. It looks like I will need to rework this set up before I keep trouble shooting my "driveability" problem. Thanks for leading me down the right paths.

2 minutes ago, InGear said:
5 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Shoot... Ask away...

 

I guess I need a draw tube set up. I'm not that hip on the lift pump set up.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, InGear said:

i'm pretty certain that my lift pump is drawing through an in tank pump. The pump is dead. The wire are plugged into it and I traced it up under the hood and they are bundled in two wire looms and ther is a red wire that splits and is plugged into a relay. I guess this is the fuel pump start relay.

 

You'll need to either install a draw straw... I would suggest a AirDog 150 or similar or mechanical pump. 

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