Fuel system questions

[Doubletrouble]

 I want to begin to upgrade my fuel system, truck is stock for the most part (see sig) but does have a FASS ddrp lift pump. What I'd like to do is relocate the pump to the frame near the tank with a relocation kit and run a big line kit from the tank to pump, pump to filter housing and then filter to VP44. Can I do this in steps? Such as filter to VP first, then relocate pump and run the rest of the big lines at that time? Or should I just accumulate the parts and do it all at once? Will I also need a draw straw with this setup? Also, will the larger lines decrease pressure? I'm not a fluid expert but I would think larger lines would increase volume but possibly lower overall pressure?

 I would go to a better FASS setup but that expense is not in the budget at this point, I have other things on the truck to do as well to set it up for towing our camper. I do want to address the fuel system this year though. It will all be a work in progress over a period of time.

 Thanks for any input.

[wil440]

I had a Fass ddrp on mine, just took it off and fitted a assassin mechanical pump from DAP along with DS and 3/8th line, I did have some pressure problems to start with but that was the 2 micron Cat fuel filter that I use instead of the stock one, this kept the fuel pressure at around 8 ish at idle but it did come up very fast, I decided to swap the drive gears around and that has more than sorted it out, I now have 15psi at idle and 25psi max, it's really nice to see pressure increasing with rpm instead of dropping.

The assassin kit uses the stock lines just for returns but 3/8th supply seems to be fine, I have a stock auto truck and have just fitted a quad so 1/2" lines I don't need and to be fair pressure is good on the 3/8th line, it's also removed an electrical item from ecm so win win

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, wil440 said:

it's also removed an electrical item from ecm so win win

 

With a FASS or AirDog system its removed as well being its on a relay. Just triggered by the ECM milliamps worth.

1 hour ago, wil440 said:

I now have 15psi at idle and 25psi max,

 

Like even with my AirDog 165 I idle at about 19-20 PSI only drop 2 PSI. Have been like this for over 13 years now. Yeah I've finally lost my first AirDog pump at 10 years ~200k miles. Then second one was a 3rd Gen pump barely 8k miles. Then was upgraded to 4th Gen AirDog 165 now I'm like I was back in the day. Solid. No wild 10 PSI swings just barely 1 to 3 PSI drop. Just Solid. Never see the low pressure light on the gauge... Set at 13 PSI.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[wil440]

26 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

No wild 10 PSI swings

no wild swings just builds pressure with rpm, more rpm = more pressure and a mechanical pump easily pumps fuel through a 2 micron filter and still maintains 25psi, no noise and no volt draw job done and cheaper... no brainer really

[Mopar1973Man]

But you mention start at 15 PSI at idle and climb to 25 PSI... That is a 10 PSI swing. 

[wil440]

that is a 10psi increase with rpm not a wild swing that has no relation to nothing

more rpm = more pressure = more fuel going back to tank to cool the vp, electric is the opposite more rpm = less pressure = less fuel going back to tank. might only be 2 or 3 psi but it is a drop non the less

[JAG1]

I think Doubletrouble needs more advice in the direction of his budget right now and those up front belt spinners real good but, are expensive. Funny his Name is doubletrouble and here you guys arguing over a swing .

 

He needs to upgrade a little at a time so for now I can recommend placing a bigger primary filter before the lift pump to stop damage from sediment. One draw back with using either the fuel Boss or the other brand is they can't have filters in front of them. I guess is okay but, I like a primary filter even if 30 micron.

Edited February 16, 2020 by JAG1

[wil440]

1 minute ago, JAG1 said:

I think Doubletrouble needs more advice in the direction of his budget right now and those up front belt spinners real good but, are expensive. Funny his Name is doubletrouble and here you guys arguing over a swing .

no arguing... lifes too short for that... there is more than electric to choose from is all and assassin was cheaper than a decent Fass anyways

[JAG1]

I was trying to get a laugh out of you guys is all......I see your point about the mechanical pump wil440, I'm always wondering why I don't check my fuel pressure gauge more often with that electrical pump I have as I go many miles at times without looking. Sorry I interrupted the discussion electric vs mechanical.

[wil440]

2 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Sorry I interrupted the discussion electric vs mechanical.

interjected  or added to

I have a Cat canister prefilter before the assassin as I really didn't like the thought of no filtration before the pump not sure what micron but Cat use it before their mechanical fuel transfer pumps so good enough for Cat good enough for me but there was next to nothing in my tank when I dropped it.

I did pretty much the same as DT wants to do, when I bought the truck PO had removed the fuel filter altogether (idiot) I fitted the cat head and filter then replaced the line from filter to vp, I went to South Wales a while back and noticed a really bad stumble on accelleration sometimes in the hills, I forget now what I did to temp fix it and to be fair it would have been fine for ever but decided then the little Fass had to go due to a replacement VP for me would be a huge amount of ££ to get it to my door, I just picked the cheapest mechanical and it worked out all good, I'm using belt and braces on this truck just because of where I am

[dripley]

I dont think the mechanical is any cheaper when you add extra filtration that the electric pumps come with though I have not priced compared them in a while.

 

To the OP, i would try to do the system tank to pump at one time just to get it done. 3/8" line would work unless plan for a lot of extra power. 2 other things that will be a good help is a FP gauge and getting the pump to run off of a relay to get the load off of the ECM.

[JAG1]

 two thumbs up what dripley and will440 are sayin. When I dropped my tank there was dirt all through the fuel and basket strainer screens. They were 1/3 rd blocked with stuff floatin around in the fuel. Had to replace the filters within a couple weeks of doing the big line kit, FP gauge, draw straw, and lift pump on the frame. Now pretty reliable even tho both my second gens got Raptor pumps.

[Doubletrouble]

 That all being said, I'm guessing I will need a draw straw along with the big line kit? I will probably go with 3/8" line. I don't plan on crazy upgrades in the future. Mild at the most. I just have to plan things in stages. We all know these can be very expensive projects. I will have the truck for a long time and plan on upgrading gradually. Side note: one of the reasons I bought a diesel was it's reliability, can't go pumping thousands into it right off the rip. Wife would flip. Lol

 I also want to perform alot of preventative maintenance since I don't know the history of the truck. Cooling system flush, oil change and so on. Also have some cosmetics to fix. Mainly some slight rust issues (welcome to Ohio). The transmission also needs a bit of attention, syncros are out shifting into 3rd gear so double clutching for now to avoid the dreadful grind.

  Plans are: fuel system big line kit tank to LP and LP to VP and relocate LP to frame.

 Gauges, FP, Boost, EGT

 BHAF

 After that I'll consider maybe upgrading injectors and possibly a mild tuner.

 Baby steps.

 I don't have a set HP goal, mainly want a bit more grunt with reliability and maybe a bit better mpg.

[cumminsdog]

20 hours ago, dripley said:

I dont think the mechanical is any cheaper when you add extra filtration that the electric pumps come with though I have not priced compared them in a while.

 

To the OP, i would try to do the system tank to pump at one time just to get it done. 3/8" line would work unless plan for a lot of extra power. 2 other things that will be a good help is a FP gauge and getting the pump to run off of a relay to get the load off of the ECM.

SKU	Item Description	Unit Price	Qty	Extended
FB-98502	'98.5-'02 Fuel Boss Mechanical Lift Pump System   Drive Options:Standard Drive	$589.00	1	$589.00
9852BLK	'98.5-'02 GDP Big Line Kit   Pressure Sender Tee Option:Pushlock Tee Upgrade (+$7.99)	$70.98	1	$70.98
CF10	Coupon Discount(#CF10)	-$66.00	1	-$66.00

Subtotal	$593.98
Tax	$0.00
Shipping & Handling	$27.13
Total	$621.11

this was 11/2015 . best bang for my buck. 

[dripley]

29 minutes ago, cumminsdog said:

SKU	Item Description	Unit Price	Qty	Extended
FB-98502	'98.5-'02 Fuel Boss Mechanical Lift Pump System   Drive Options:Standard Drive	$589.00	1	$589.00
9852BLK	'98.5-'02 GDP Big Line Kit   Pressure Sender Tee Option:Pushlock Tee Upgrade (+$7.99)	$70.98	1	$70.98
CF10	Coupon Discount(#CF10)	-$66.00	1	-$66.00

Subtotal	$593.98
Tax	$0.00
Shipping & Handling	$27.13
Total	$621.11

this was 11/2015 . best bang for my buck. 

If you want to add the extra filtration thats another $150 to$200 for the filter head and filters. If you dont want them then so be it. The mechanical pumps were fairly new when I put my AD on. They do appear to worked out very well. Had I know that at the time I might very well have used one. All I was doing was trying for an apples to apples comparison. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Yup. 

 

By the time you add it all up the the price is higher on the mechanical side. Pre-filter and water separator, main filter, electric priming pump (addon), etc. Then the price goes up pretty good.  If they had a kit with prefilter, water separator, and main filter with air separation, Then I would consider mechanical pumps.

 

$621 for a just a pump. No filters, No prefilter, No water separator, no priming pump, etc. 

 

Funny part is I paid $520 for my AirDog 150, 13 years ago. Came with filters, plumbing, draw straw, electrical, etc. Each their own...

 

[wil440]

Nope. Assassin cheaper including buying a cat filter head and I got 2 micron filter to boot