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the7t7

Help with Daily Tune

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I've been messing with my daily tune and have a few questions (elev 3800ft). I have a compound turbo setup with 175hp 7x011 voc injectors. I am tuning for smoke mostly. I've got most of the smoke out of my tune except for start up (I'll ask about that later) and low psi, mid to high load situations while cruising from town speeds to sub highway speeds. One thing that's a little troubling is that my current can bus fueling is way below what the tune builder suggests. I've started as high as 75, however, I get pretty decent clouds of dark drey smoke when I accelerate with more than 30-40% throttle from cruise. I've dropped the load timing down to 1* and gone as high as 17* on the 1500 max timing but its not really clean enough for me. We have a lot of roundabouts in Bend and starting at 75% blows smoke at the pedestrians accelerating into or out of the them. It's not black smoke and the truck is more responsive at that level, though. Below is my best tune at controlling smoke.  I feel I could go a little higher on low psi fuel since steady throttle while cruising around and gradual accelerations produce no smoke when use a 75% starting can bus map. I just can't tune out the mid to heavy acceleration smoke dump when I need to get going at that starting point.

 

Second question relates to cold and even warmish 1st starts of the day. I've read that the quad doesn't take over until after 1000 rpm and some throttle at a certain IAT. Has any progress been made helping the quad fuel during this scenario? I get pretty large amounts of gray smoke at start up. Its especially annoying if the truck was in the garage overnight. I try to put it in gear as quick as I can but I get that large surge/stumble that others have complained about. If its fairly cold and I try to move too soon it can die. Is there a way to fool the ecm into thinking it's warm with some sensor resistors, and switchable relays etc? Thanks.

 

Here is my tune:

Power Levels: 6

 

Timing

Fuel Load Timing: 2

Low PSI Timing Reduct: 5

Timing Reduct Scaling: 50

Light Throttle Timing Adv: 2

Light Throttle Timing Load Limit: 25

 

Timing vs rpm

1500:16

2000:19

2500:20

3000:23

Timing Max:30
 

Wiretap

Pump Stretch: 1200

TPS Pump max:100

TPS Pump Min 5

Minimum Pump Tap Fueling Percentage: 40

Pump Low Boost Scale PSI: 20

 

Boost Scaling:

 

RPM Limit: 35

 

Power Reduction:

 

0 PSI %:70

1 PSI %:70

2 PSI %:71

3 PSI %:72

4 PSI %:73

5 PSI %:74

6 PSI %:75

7 PSI %:76

8 PSI %:77

9 PSI %:78

10 PSI %:79

11 PSI %:80

12 PSI %:82

13 PSI %:84

14 PSI %:86

15 PSI %:88

16 PSI %:90

18 PSI %:94

20 PSI %:98

22 PSI %:102

24 PSI %:107

26 PSI %:112

28 PSI %:117

30 PSI %:122.

 

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who's injectors do you have?

 

As for you starting poing of %70 vs what hte tune builder suggests, the tune build is just a suggestion.  what you see in the real world should alter your tune.  

 

What transition points do you get smoke, IE at 8-10 psi?  or 15-20 psi.   Does it smoke more on lvl 4-6 at these points?   or does level 3 and above all smoke about the same?

 

try this I edited some of your wiretap stuff to prevent mass increase of fueling once 20 psi is hit.

 

Quote

Power Levels: 6

 

Timing

Fuel Load Timing: 2

Low PSI Timing Reduct: 5

Timing Reduct Scaling: 50

Light Throttle Timing Adv: 2

Light Throttle Timing Load Limit: 25

 

Timing vs rpm

1500:16

2000:19

2500:24

3000:28

Timing Max:30
 

Wiretap

Pump Stretch: 1200

TPS Pump max:100

TPS Pump Min 0

Minimum Pump Tap Fueling Percentage: 0

Pump Low Boost Scale PSI: 20

 

Boost Scaling:40

 

RPM Limit: 3500

 

Power Reduction:

 

0 PSI %:70

1 PSI %:70

2 PSI %:71

3 PSI %:72

4 PSI %:73

5 PSI %:74

6 PSI %:75

7 PSI %:76

8 PSI %:77

9 PSI %:78

10 PSI %:79

11 PSI %:80

12 PSI %:82

13 PSI %:84

14 PSI %:86

15 PSI %:88

16 PSI %:90

18 PSI %:94

20 PSI %:98

22 PSI %:102

24 PSI %:107

26 PSI %:112

28 PSI %:117

30 PSI %:122.

 

I would try and smooth out the points where you have smoke, you don't need to go any higher than ~%115 in order to see full fueling.    you can keep 8-10 psi % the same and flatten out the ramp up of fuel.

 

The quad doesn't control idle state fueling or sub 1000 rpm fueling or fueling when below the warmup temp setup.   That isn't going to change.  grey smoke on start is normal for a vp truck with big injectors when cold.   nature of the beast.  

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Thanks I’ll try the new numbers. My injectors are DAP 7x.0105 VOC. As for your other questions, I’ve only been messing with level 3 since my issues seem only to be initial smoke on medium to heavy throttle application while cruising at low psi or when accelerating from a stop. Normal or gradual acceleration generally produces no smoke through all psi settings. I was just wondering if I was missing something with regard to timing since it seems like I have some room for more fuel at lower psi (less than say 20 psi) because under steady acceleration (once turbos are caught up), I have no haze at all. However, when I do try to raise fuel below 25 psi, I get more smoke from throttle application that doesn’t really improve when I add timing. It’s peppier but smokier. It still pretty clean under gradual acceleration starting at 75 vs 70. As for the upper psi fueling, the reason I ramp up the fuel after 24-27 psi is because thats when it feels like both turbos start really working well together. No matter what fuel map or timing setting I have tried, the truck always seems to start pulling hard around 25 psi. I can go well into the 50s with my set up (I have arp head studs). 

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in what PSI range do you get smoke then under heavy throttle? 

 

have you done a WOT take off at 70 % fuel? does it smoke or no?  %75 ?  are you used to using heavy throttle to get moving?   a lot of guys are used to tuners that max duraiton very early related to tps input so they are not used to using the full range of the throttle pedal.  

 

They then say the truck feels lazy.  

 

 My prefered way to tune is to find where the limit of smoke is related to take off and WOT then set your tune up so that is your 0 psi setting and go from there.  When I had my 7 x .012's I was used to going to %70 or %80 throttle on take off if I wanted to move off quickly.   

 

My daily tune had a range of fueling from ~%68 at 0 psi to 112 at 30 psi.  

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2 hours ago, Me78569 said:

 

in what PSI range do you get smoke then under heavy throttle? 

 

It’s usually 0 to about 18 psi where I get smoked under heavier throttle unless I cut back the whole map to starting around 70.  When I go as low as 65, I don’t have smoke anywhere. It’s still drivable there but surges a bit under light acceleration. Starting at 70, initial throttle smoke is minimal and there really isn’t any much anywhere else, so a good compromise. 
 

I’ve essentially been sorting the tuning like you've discribed. I tried finding a starting psi using the setting1 method but that only got me a range to start with. Honestly I could not tell much difference in smoke below the psi where it changed from black to gray. It was all just shades of grey below about 78 psi.

 

I suppose doing data logs would help but I really don’t have the time to get that detailed. I will try bumping up the levels to iron out the curve a little better but I’ve got a good start now. I was just being a little ocd about smoke. Thanks for the help. At least I know I’m heading in the right direction.

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21 hours ago, Me78569 said:

I would try and smooth out the points where you have smoke, you don't need to go any higher than ~%115 in order to see full fueling.    you can keep 8-10 psi % the same and flatten out the ramp up of fuel.

 

Just for fun I wanted to check this after work. I'm at 119% in the 30+psi fuel level, and I reached 4076 out of 4095 (99.536%) fuel command. Close enough to full fuel. 120% should do it.

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1 hour ago, Me78569 said:

I used to hit 4096 at %112 

 

Interesting. Maybe I should double check that my apps is getting to 100%.

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Watch your engine load and fuel numbers. Engine load is 0 to 100% number. Your commanded fuel number is the 0 to 4095. 

 

Timing wise spread your timing out. Do a +4 between. Might even think about +4.5. I'm currently running a +4 spread. Now that winter fuels are leaving I've got to start inching back up in timing. I'm going to have to download my summer tune soon. 

 

Screenshot_20200312-061018_iQuad.jpg

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8 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Timing wise spread your timing out. Do a +4 between. Might even think about +4.5. I'm currently running a +4 spread.

I'll try the bigger spread to see what it does. I was just trying to keep smoke down in the lower psi/ higher load scenario by setting the max timing a little advance and cutting down on load timing.

 

On 3/10/2020 at 7:23 PM, Me78569 said:

Does it smoke more on lvl 4-6 at these points?   or does level 3 and above all smoke about the same?

I bumped up to level 4 once I got level 3 close (essential no smoke except a little gray at initial low psi 30%+ throttle applications from cruise or a stop) and noticed that throttle smoke was only slightly worse and I got only slight haze under medium to hard load. Gradual acceleration still produced no smoke. So I think I'm pretty close.

 

A couple more questions while I got a few of you looking.

1.) I have my boost scaling set to 40 (max?) because the compounds can go higher. I was wondering if I am leaving fuel on the table if say the ecm only recognizes max 35 psi, which would mean the quad would stop adding fuel there. That would leave 5/40 (12.5%) of my tap unused. Not a big thing but is my logic correct?

 

2.) I think I saw in some earlier quad threads that some people were setting their 0 psi at a certain point and then starting their map at a lower fuel % at 1psi. What was the purpose of this? 

 

3.) If I was to make a tow version of my tune, what setting should I change. I was thinking of cutting back light load timing but didn't know if I needed to do more.

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1. boost scaling only compresses the map used.  if your truck builds more than 40 psi you should set scaling to 40.

 

2. settings 1 psi lower than 0 psi will help the offidle lul but cut down on a rapid increase of fueling / smoke when coming off idle.

 

3.  if you have studs then I wouldn't worry about a "tow tune" unless you have an issue that needs to be solved.

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