Strange Scenario; PCM?

[Cummins5.9]

Hi Guys.. new here, but have been reading as a guest for a while. I’m always amazed at how knowledgable a lot of you guys are and all the helpful information available.

 

Here’s my situation, and I’ll try to remember a much detail as I can and in the proper sequence. Last year my truck was sitting for about 7-8 months without use. I was helping one of my parents out of town and wasn’t able to do much else. So when I got home, my truck batteries were totally dead. These were new batteries, maybe 4 months old prior to leaving. I couldn’t get them to take a charge. Took them in, load tested, replaced. Then the truck’s EVS II system wouldn’t disarm and I think the door locks weren’t functioning right either. So I removed the entire EVS from the truck. Truck still wouldn’t start and the lift pump sounded erratic like it wouldn’t come on sometimes and/or run after bumping starter, then other times it seemed to be working fine. It was old so anyway so I replaced it with an AirDog, which seems to be running like it should, fuel pressure gauge shows good pressure. I cracked the inlet at the VP44 and have fuel there. Cracked 1,3,5 and no fuel. When I did the ignition cycle for odometer codes I got codes I can’t find anywhere: 920, 921, 999. Nobody seems to have heard of them. So I went to get a  scan tool and I get code 1389 and sometimes 1692. I clear them and next time I try to start I get the 1389 for sure but not always 1692. Once I got 1689 and 1693 but I think (wonder) if some of those could have been caused by pulling the fuel system relay and switching it with another relay. The 1389 is ASD relay voltage. I swapped that relay with the wiper relay but no difference. Still sets code and no start. The other thing I noticed prior to the truck being in storage was that the voltmeter was usually not up at 14 but on the upside of the middle mark. The alternator and batteries were replaced in 2013 when my brother had the truck for a couple years. That was a Napa unit. (Batteries were replaced again in December 2018 as mentioned above). 

 

So some questions..

 

1. Have you ever heard of a truck not in use, going off the deep end like this? I tend to not think the injection pump is involved because it had no symptoms prior to storage. Well, it did have one issue developing with cranking and not starting which was after sitting at work for the day, I would go to start and it would crank and usually not start until the second try which i attributed to probably a loss of prime somewhere. I had not yet tracked that down. Although when changing the lift pump, the inlet side was not super tight but there was no fuel leak.. anyway I believe this previous cranking issue possibly unrelated..

 

2. Is the EVS II possibly responsible in any way now that it’s removed? In other words, could the PCM know that the entire system was removed and somehow be interfering in the truck starting? I assumed once the EVS was removed from harnesses and things put back to stock connections, it would be out of the loop entirely. 

 

3. What could draw those batteries down and ruin them like that with the truck not being active? I know it’s possible under normal circumstances for batteries to discharge over this much time without a trickle charger, but something pulled them down and ruined both of them. I checked all the grounds i could find and they’re all tight. Some have light surface rust from being 20 years old and the one by the power steering pump is caked in oil/dirt but all are tight. I have during this time put in a fuse on the blue wire pin 25 out of pcm harness, and i will probably do the W-T ground mod if I can find a video and/or follow a good set of instructions on it. 

 

Usually it seems problems show up when a truck is in use however this one is strange in that, it just developed while sitting and prior to that it ran perfectly with the exception of the loss of prime issue if that’s what it was. 

 

I have not used jumpers on the injection pump yet to see if the truck will start that way. I assumed I’d probably get fuel at the cracked injector lines just from the lift pump pressure, but I must be wrong on that. I’m also assuming that the 1389 code might prevent a start even if the injection pump is direct wired with jumpers. The wires look okay between the PDC and PCM from what I can tell without tearing conduit and tape apart everywhere, and the relay switch didn’t work so I’m thinking maybe PCM is whacked..but again, why would that spontaneously happen during a period of inactivity? 

 

4. Final question assuming PCM is bad. The consensus here seems to be that “auto computer specialists” has been used by many and is trusted with satisfied customers. I am pretty uneasy about sending my PCM in, there seem to be a lot of shady companies, many have BBB complaints at some point, and it’s one of those things where you have to rely on someone’s honesty and integrity and trust them. They could say anything and you wouldn’t know, send pictures of other modules, whatever.. this day and age it seems increasingly difficult to find that integrity and honesty out there. The thread on this site regarding PCM repair companies looks like it hasn’t been updated in a while, but Auto Computer Specialists had the most use at the time. 

 

I’ll leave it there for now as I’m sure this is already a novel.. Thanks in advance and apologies for the long-ish read. If I forgot something I will add it in subsequent posting. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Welcome to the site...

 

First off that is a heck of a read. 

4 hours ago, Cummins5.9 said:

Well, it did have one issue developing with cranking and not starting which was after sitting at work for the day, I would go to start and it would crank and usually not start until the second try which i attributed to probably a loss of prime somewhere.

 

Could be loss of prime cause by a a air leak into the line. Another I gotta ask about is the WAIT TO START light coming on instantly? If the WAIT TO START does not come on then the ECM is NOT booted and will not start till it does come on.

 

4 hours ago, Cummins5.9 said:

2. Is the EVS II possibly responsible in any way now that it’s removed? In other words, could the PCM know that the entire system was removed and somehow be interfering in the truck starting? I assumed once the EVS was removed from harnesses and things put back to stock connections, it would be out of the loop entirely. 

 

EVS? I'm not sure what this device is. PCM is the master computer that starts the CCD network bus and ECM boots up separately. As for the entire network and what is there. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Cummins5.9 said:

3. What could draw those batteries down and ruin them like that with the truck not being active? I know it’s possible under normal circumstances for batteries to discharge over this much time without a trickle charger, but something pulled them down and ruined both of them.

 

Grid heaters. It's possible for the grid heater solenoid to stick and draw the batteries stone dead in a night. Like my landlord called me up in a panic that his truck has dead batteries. We charged it up and started and charged normally. Not as it seems... Alternator would get hot pop the circuit breaker. Then the grid heater solenoid is stuck closed and still heating the grid heater. 95 Amp load will eat the batteries in a short order with no signs. 

Simply just unhook the grid heater leads at the driver side battery. Problem stopped.

 

4 hours ago, Cummins5.9 said:

4. Final question assuming PCM is bad. The consensus here seems to be that “auto computer specialists” has been used by many and is trusted with satisfied customers.

Auto Computer Specialist did good with me both times I've used them. They replaced my burned up PCM after my alternator shorted out and burned up the printed circuit board till it had a hole in the circuit board. Then I had sent in a 4th gen ECM for repair which they repaired the ECM but there was a wire issue on the truck preventing the ECM to boot up normally. ECM still works but the wiring is screwed on that truck.

[IBMobile]

8 hours ago, Cummins5.9 said:

I got codes I can’t find anywhere: 920, 921, 999

P0920 Gear Shift Forward Actuator Circuit/Open

P0921 Gear Shift Forward Actuator Circuit Range/Performance

P0999 Shift Solenoid "F" Control Circuit High

None of the above codes pertain to your truck, don't know way they would be coming up but they can be generated from the PCM. 

 

P1389 No Auto Shutdown Relay Voltage At Powertrain Control Module 

You may have a problem with the ASD relay circuit, power going through the complete circuit or the PCM is not grounding the relay for some reason.  See below for test instructions.

The batteries going dead after sitting unused that long, new or not, will go dead.

 

[Cummins5.9]

Quote

If the WAIT TO START does not come on then the ECM is NOT booted and will not start till it does come on.

 

The WAIT TO START seems to work as normal. Although I noticed before I changed the transfer pump, during a period of cranking and trying to bleed the fuel lines and get it to start, the “intake horn” I believe it’s called got pretty hot and it seemed like the grid heaters might have been over active. However while in storage I’m not sure how the grid heater circuit would become active on it’s own and take the batteries out. Hmm... Maybe it’s worth replacing that solenoid... or putting some kind of manual shut off in-line somewhere. 

 

Quote

EVS? I'm not sure what this device is. PCM is the master computer that starts the CCD network bus and ECM boots up separately. As for the entire network and what is there. 

 

Thanks for the schematic... I am a little inexperienced when it comes to wiring diagrams and such but I’m a moderately quick learner (I think..).  The EVS II was a dealer provided security system with keyless entry, alarm and anti-theft module. I think they phased out in the next few years after I purchased it. It had always functioned perfectly until this storage period. After replacing the batteries, the EVS was all out of whack. The keyless function wasn’t working right and the alarm could not be disarmed so it would go off as if I were breaking in no matter what i tried. So I removed the whole thing. 

 

It’s just very curious to me how a truck just sitting had something spontaneously happen that caused the battery failure, EVS problem, and possibly the PCM and/or injection pump issue if it’s involved. 

 

Are the ECM and PCM not within the same device/box on this truck? Any thoughts on how to further isolate where the problem might be located? At this point I was thinking about doing the jumper wire test on the VP44 although I don’t know if that will positively point to the ECM/PCM. 

 

After that, I’m out of ideas... maybe just send the PCM in and see if they find anything?

 

I sure appreciate the welcoming to the site and your comments Mopar1973man. 

[IBMobile]

6 minutes ago, Cummins5.9 said:

Are the ECM and PCM not within the same device/box on this truck

ECM, Engine Control Module, located on the left (driver) side of engine.

PCM, Powertrain Control Module, located on the right (passenger) out side fire wall.

[Cummins5.9]

Quote

The batteries going dead after sitting unused that long, new or not, will go dead.

Yeah, I wasn’t really surprised they were discharged, but they were completely gone and also not recoverable which I haven’t experienced on a vehicle before and I’ve had others in storage situations without ever losing a battery entirely. I wonder if there might be a parasitic load on them though and that would seem possible.. I wonder if that could have been a result of something happening in the PCM/ECM. 

 

I had read through that 1389 article you posted, and I read through it again just now. Thanks for that post. I don’t have the scanner that gives those messages, freeze frames, etc.. it’s just an inexpensive Innova scanner from Autozone. Also, I have not ever dug deeply into the truck wiring as described here. It sounds like I need to unbolt and somewhat take apart the PDC so that I can identify specific pins and wire locations. I don’t think there were markings on the top side that would indicate where to place the test leads. I’m not really familiar with using an ohmeter although I have an inexpensive one of those as well. I’m not afraid to jump in and learn and figure it out though. I will probably dig into this tomorrow and take the PDC apart or look into checking the wiring coming out of it, etc, and see if I can find anything obvious.

[Tractorman]

10 hours ago, Cummins5.9 said:

Last year my truck was sitting for about 7-8 months without use.

 

You didn't say whether  or not you disconnected the batteries for the time  period your truck wasn't being used, so I am assuming that you did not.  If you did not disconnect the batteries, then they could have completely discharged just from the parasitic draws from the many control modules that go into sleep mode after the engine is shut down.   This would include your security system, as well. 

 

I seriously doubt that your grid heaters malfunctioned and discharged your batteries.  If that happened, lack of air flow through the air intake heaters (grid heaters) would have allowed for serious heat to build up at the intake heater location which would have blistered paint, and you would probably see melted plastic on the nearby control solenoids.

 

You are probably seeing heat buildup at the grid heater location now because your engine is not starting, so there is very little air flow to carry away the heat.

 

- John

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Tractorman
always something

[Cummins5.9]

Thanks John,

 

Yeah.. I think this time I did not disconnect the batteries. I left town quickly, did not plan to be gone nearly as long as I was and so I almost certainly did not disconnect them. Normally I would do that when I know I’m not going to use the vehicle for several months.. or alternatively I would put a charger on it every month or two. I’m actually glad to be rid of the security system, I just hope it wasn’t tied into the computers in some way that would disable the truck if the entire system was removed. 

[Mopar1973Man]

@IBMobile those error codes are cluster codes not P codes. 

 

@Cummins5.9 as for batteries. Just pull the two black leads from the driver side battery terminal. Those are the power supply to the grid heaters. Second off you don't have to disconnect the batteries. There is two fuses in the cab fuse panel you can pull out in plastic clips. One is the IOD fuse (Ignition Off Draw) this is just like pulling the battery terminal and shuts off the things that are tied ot the battery like radio memory, interior lighting, etc. 

[Cummins5.9]

I don’t know if I should post this as a separate topic, but it does fit in to my scope of potential causes.. 

 

Here is a picture of both sides of my injection pump harness. There is a female side sleeve for one of the pins missing. I don’t know if this pin is just unused or what the function would be. The truck was running in this condition previously so my guess is maybe it’s not used?

 

 

I will research this further, but I know it’s a quick answer for some of you guys who have changed a few of these out. I don’t have a second truck around to compare to at the moment. I think there is an aftermarket solution for about $200; a new harness you can wire in I believe in the event the truck side has a failure..?

[dripley]

Looking a t the 02 wiring diagrams pin 3 should be empty. Not sure how they are numbered in the connector.

[Cummins5.9]

I think it’s pin 9... also not used.

And in looking at this repair harness.. it would seem mine is fine. Pin sleeves missing at both 3 and 9..