Quadzilla stumbles @ max TPS WT %

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah if it not making boost pressure seen by the Quadzilla then the fuel map will remain limited. 

 

9 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

I would expect your setup to make 60+ psi on a 0-60 pull. 

Exactly what I would be expecting too. At least 50 to 60 PSI of boost.

 

Even my smaller set up 7 x 0.010 injectors I still can hit 47 to 49 PSI of max boost. Just with my small 60/60/12 turbo. I would have to agree with @Me78569 and look at the MAP sensor. It should follow the mechanical gauge closely till about 25 to 30 PSI then it tend to wonder. Data logs on my Quadzilla show me reaching 69 PSI of boost... But mechanical gauge stops at about 47 to 49 PSI. This shows my upper end error of my sensor but I'm not worried. In your case the sensor is most likely short on signal which is limiting your ability to build boost.  

[Me78569]

Or there isn't enough load to build boost and the converter is just being blown through until lockup.    

[Mopar1973Man]

Just now, Me78569 said:

Or there isn't enough load to build boost and the converter is just being blown through until lockup.    

Never thought of that but very possible. Transmission temps should spike quickly if so...

[rogerash0]

Bottom of third to top of fourth is a full pull in my books. I did a plethora of them on the highway with the 220hp injectors and weepy head gasket on the way to d&j. Thr back end stepped out once on a damp surface. Itll make 60psi if i do that pull but ill be going 80-90mph by the end of it. Once it goes into OD with the tc locked you feel the torque come on proper.

 

I don't have a good place to do a high speed run like that around here.  20mph over the limit is reckless driving in VA, too. 

 

I could potentially get on the interstate when traffic is low and try it, but I'd still be speeding.

 

My coolant to tranny heat exchanger is gone. To cool to trans I have the rad up front and a derale under the bed with the fan not turned on because I never break 160-180*F in daily driving. With the slightly lower than stock stall DPC converter from firepunk it would heat up a good bit more.

 

With the 150rpm lower than stock stall, the .80ar housing and 220hp injectors the truck was like a drag truck. Smokey and then if I got on it hard enough to spin it to 2k rpm and above to clear the smoke I was rocketing. Thats what prompted me to goto a stock stall was to keep smoke down, same with the .70ar housing. 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

It just seems htat you should be making that 60 psi way lower in the rpm band.  I will try and dig up a data log from trevor ir tyler.

[Mopar1973Man]

 

 

 

[rogerash0]

So it may be a thing that small compounds on a vp truck can blow thru a stock stall converter? New cummins Map Sensor shipped today. My truck probably makes 40psi at 50% tps at 3k rpm in 3rd gear, even today with fueling turned down to 125% max from 10 psi on up, tps min 0%, tps max 100%, min wire tap fueling at 7psi, min wire tap 0% and your timing.

 

I have some like new toyo 35s that will add a lot more load and gearing. I could throw them on.

[Mopar1973Man]

Be aware of your final ratio... it will load it up more, adds more stress to the transmission, and higher EGTs. Im finding optimal ratio right around 3.42 to 3.73. So like 285s on 3.55 gears makes 3.42. Now 245s on 3.55 is 3.69. But go to 35 inch on 3.55 will be 3.21. This might be too low of a ratio number.

[Me78569]

1 hour ago, rogerash0 said:

So it may be a thing that small compounds on a vp truck can blow thru a stock stall converter? New cummins Map Sensor shipped today. My truck probably makes 40psi at 50% tps at 3k rpm in 3rd gear, even today with fueling turned down to 125% max from 10 psi on up, tps min 0%, tps max 100%, min wire tap fueling at 7psi, min wire tap 0% and your timing.

 

I have some like new toyo 35s that will add a lot more load and gearing. I could throw them on.

I am really not sure, all i know is looking at your data logs I think your boost according to the ecm is not coming on fast enough compared to other 62/75 twin setups.    I would expect to see 20+ psi by 2k rpms with the fuel you have.    having only 10 psi at 2k rpms means the ecm is not fueling hard. 

 

look at my data logs and see how my 30 psi setting of %120 help fueling at max until over 3k rpm.   I was at WOT thought.

 

 

 

I would ensure you are on lvl 3 only, and from a stop go straight to WOT while data logging.  Pull to 70mph is possible wihtout lifting and post the datalog.  I would expect boost to climb to 50+ psi by the end of 2nd and have it hold or increase throughout 3rd and od.    

 

Here is another datalog of mine of a Wot to 70 + mph

 

 

Note how canbus (green bar) peaks at the end of 2nd and pretty much holds peak at 4095 until the end of the pull.  also note how boost peaks ( middle blue color) and holds at ~36 psi from the end of 2nd on as well.   again this tune started at %68 canbus at 0 psi to 120 at 30 psi with no wiretap.  I was hitting peak duration and holding.

 

 

If you look at the log I posted earlier of your run your canbus falls off as rpms raise,  this tells me 1 of 2 things or both it causing it.  1. tps is to low for the ecm to think you are driving hard, 2 boost is too low for the ecm to be fueling hard.    I know for a fact that upper end duration is being lost due to not enough tps input.  but the 1800-2400 rpm region might be a combo of both.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Me78569

[rogerash0]

19 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Be aware of your final ratio... it will load it up more, adds more stress to the transmission, and higher EGTs. Im finding optimal ratio right around 3.42 to 3.73. So like 285s on 3.55 gears makes 3.42. Now 245s on 3.55 is 3.69. But go to 35 inch on 3.55 will be 3.21. This might be too low of a ratio number.

I've ran the 35s for awhile and towed with them, so I know it loads it down a lot. I have them, so it is what it is.

 

Me - I read what you said. I can do the WOT pull you asked for to 60mph probably.  Whats the minimum fueling you want me to use? I don't want to die. Min fueling of 90% and max of 120% okay? With 1200us wiretap or no wire tap? I don't think I've ever floored it since I got the big injectors. Every time I went high high tps, I hit my tps max setting and it smokes and falls on its face like the original post was about. But ill set tps max for wiretap at 100% so hopefully that doesn't happen. 

[Me78569]

Run this tune and go WOT from a stop on lvl3.  lvl 3 does not use wiretap.  we are just looking to figure out if you are getting full fueling at WOT and looking at a WOT data log.

 

Once we are happy with how it runs without wiretap we will talk about adding wiretap in.  for now no wiretap.

 

Power Levels: 6

 

Fuel Load timing: 2

Low PSI Timing Reduct: 2

Timing Reduct Scaling: 100

Light Throttle Timing Adv:2

Light Throttle Timing Load Limit: 30

 

Timing vs rpm

1500: 16

2000: 19

2500: 25

3000: 29

Timing Max: 30

 

Pump Stretch: 2000 microseconds

TPS Pump max: 100%

TPS Pump Min: 0%

Minimum Pump Tap Fueling Percentage:0    

Pump Low Boost Scale PSI: 10

 

Boost Scaling: 40 PSI

 

RPM Limit: 3500

 

Power Reduction: 10%

 

0 PSI %: 76

1 PSI %: 77

2 PSI %: 78

3 PSI %: 79

4 PSI %: 80

5 PSI %: 82

6 PSI %: 84

7 PSI %: 86

8 PSI %: 88

9 PSI %: 90

10 PSI %: 92

11 PSI %: 94

12 PSI %: 98

13 PSI %: 100

14 PSI %: 102

15 PSI %: 104

16 PSI %: 108

18 PSI %: 112

20 PSI %: 116

22 PSI %: 120

24 PSI %: 124

26 PSI %: 128

28 PSI %: 132

30 PSI %: 136

 

[rogerash0]

Dang man thats gonna be scary. Its late and it cooled off. I could go out now. Nee senslr gets here next Weds or Thurs. You want the data log off that pull?

[Me78569]

It shouldnt be scary, whats the point of ponies if you dont use them.

 

 

 

But yes datalog.

[rogerash0]

Lol 50% tps and she's normally making max ponies. I havnt used 100% pedal in ages .

 

It was already after 9pm and im in a cul-de-sac where everyone can hear the beast start. So I'll see about running it tmrw.

Edited July 10, 2020 by rogerash0

[dripley]

Live a little, just mat it!

[Mopar1973Man]

3 minutes ago, dripley said:

Live a little, just mat it!

[hdpwipmonkey]

Looking forward to this report 

[Me78569]

The idea with a proper tune is that if you go WOT you are throwing the right amount of fuel at the truck so you ramp up fueling smooth and steady.   Throwing a ton of fuel at the truck isn't actually faster, but torque comes on more like a light switch rather than ramping up.  

 

 

Here is an old datalog where I setup 2 tunes.  1 perfectly clean, 1 using %150 settings across the board.  Both were snap to WOT from 0 mph to 60 mph.  You can see that the blue bar graph ( overfueled ) ramps up to peak right away, where as the green one ramps up slower, both peak fueling.  However if you look at the boost and mpb lines they follow each other without one standing out.  

 

over fueling != faster lighting turbo when talking about normal sized turbos.  Your 62 is a normal turbo.

 

Quote

I ran a test yesterday comparing my daily tune to a stupidly aggressive tune set at %150 duration from 0 psi to 30 psi.   I wanted to know if there was a significant difference in power between a clean tune and an overfueled tune.  

 

 

 

You can see the huge amount of fuel down low.  However most everything else follows each other.    Both reach 60 mph at pretty much the same time, both have about the same egt's and both build and hold boost exactly the same.  

 

The overfueled tune did feel more responsive when not at WOT, but that was simply because I didn't have to push the pedal down as far to get the same seat of the pants results.  

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Me78569

[Mopar1973Man]

19 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

The overfueled tune did feel more responsive when not at WOT, but that was simply because I didn't have to push the pedal down as far to get the same seat of the pants results.

 

Yup right there... Overfueling tunes like Smarty tend to make the APPS value hit max duration at mere 40% APPS or so of throttle. Where a proper tune uses the full 100% of APPS to control fuel. I checked over my tune and with my economy tune (123%) max I hit a full 4095 CANBus fuel with WOT of the APPS. Haze to light smoke is acceptable but heavy smoke is not going to build power any faster. Some of the smoke you can tune out with timing. Even the stock ECM software (without a tuner) can hit max fuel 4095 CANBus fuel at WOT just the timing is rather retarded. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[rogerash0]

Blue bar is canbus OF for over fuel. How is that actually calculated? I understand it's more light switchy, thats kinda common sense, but my from my angle if she will take the fuel and burn it, I want to give it everything she will take to reduce the amount of time it takes for maximum power. Thats for a max effort tune, atleast. Im general what im getting at is perhaps in a race (not that I race) you could shave 1sec or a half sec delay/ reaction time off by making it fuel harder/faster. Unless when u floor it the ecm really has no different reacting time to the fueling, you just have more resolution in the fueling from the pedal and the tenth of a sec difference from half throttle and max throttle when flooring it