Timing for stock head studs

[trailhead]

I’ve gone through the tuning process, and I like my boost level fueling curve.  I also think I Ike my pump tap parameters, but I’m not sure my stock clutch can handle much wiretap at all.  But all of my timing parameters are set to Mike’s economy settings.  I’m going to lose sleep about not having ARP studs.  I don’t really understand the timing settings, so I need them explained (dummy style) or I need to know how not to exceed recommendations for stock head studs.  I’d like to get studs, but I’ve got to get on the road hauling my 7k pound camper here soon and don’t have the time or cash.  I’ve done a lot of reading, but I just can’t quite get my head around the technical knowledge of this community yet. Thanks. 

[Me78569]

What's important is if you have a load on and you put your foot into it does timing drop down in the 1500-2200 rpm area?

[trailhead]

I guess I'll have to hitch on and find out.  I read somewhere that 

16

18

22

24

26

was recommended for RPM Max timing without studs.  So I assume when I do the test, I'm looking for numbers to drop from 18ish down to 16ish?  

[Me78569]

That's a blanket a-ok statement to cya.

 

  However keep in mind that the edge will command 25* by 2400 r and 30* by 3k

 

 

You just don't want a high load on the truck, high tps input in the sub 2k area and 20*+ of timing.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

I was squeezing a bit higher above the 20 and 2,000 RPM's but I'm going to say which might of increase my chance of head gasket failure. I think it didn't help the stock head gasket and between that and head curl that most heads will get after about 300k miles of heat and cool cycles too. Being I'm already running 425 ARP studs I'm good to roll without any thought now. Most all my tunes start out at 14* or 15* and the only thing that pulls the timing up more is cruise timing but low low at 20 to 25% engine load. At a +4.5 step it puts my 2,000 RPM band 19.5* but now consider load base timing of 1* that makes it 18.5* just off of cruise timing where the load starts to climb. Still runs better at 23 to 24* cruise timing at 2k. Still got 7% engine load at idle. Injectors are starting to wear about 50% life.

[Unreal Summit]

Soo if I don't have head studs it would be ok to set timing advance to get me up to 20* at cruise at say 65-70?

[Me78569]

Yes as long as when you put your foot in it timing drops.

[Unreal Summit]

I'll give that a try and see if it helps my mpg some. What's the most y'all would get up to in cruise timing?

[Mopar1973Man]

Remember there is values like cetane that affect your tune. Out here the cetane is really low now and added timing is welcomed. Injector pop pressure will affect the injectors too. 

[Me78569]

12 hours ago, Unreal Summit said:

I'll give that a try and see if it helps my mpg some. What's the most y'all would get up to in cruise timing?

depends on rpm  try 18-19* at 65 and see what mpg do then make your tune bump down timing when you step on it and you can add a bit more timing if you want.  20* was the magic number for my truck but I has really big injectors.   

[Mopar1973Man]

That the weird part. Like I followed @Me78569 guidance and got the 7 x 0.010 and popped to 3320 bar. Then my tune was different than what my truck liked. There is too many factors to even go over that affect why one truck likes more timing but the other likes less timing. Basically what I try to do is work more with the first 2 band (1,500 and 2,000) in timing. Now if you find those two that the truck performs the best at low engine loads then you can build the rest from it. Most people used the 1,500 to 2,000 bands the most so if you focus there to get started you'll find the right timing sooner. Now you know you going to need like 18* to 19* in the 2,000  RPM slider and then you'll need about a +2 to cruise timing that gives you a 20* at cruise. 

[Unreal Summit]

Probably best to just wait and get my new injectors before I play around with my timing much then.  Makes sense that it will change.  Also I keep forgetting they change the cetane from winter to summer.

[LorenS]

On 7/25/2020 at 11:35 AM, Me78569 said:

You just don't want a high load on the truck, high tps input in the sub 2k area and 20*+ of timing

With relatively fresh stock injectors, 3.55 gears and HY35, is 17* at 1900ish RPM on a slight hill extremely conservative? I see 20* going down hill, that's about it. I haven't tapped the pump so just utilize levels 2 and 3 on Quad.

 

I think I'm running one of your tow tunes for stock trucks that I bought.

[Me78569]

17* is fine.