New Injectors now Surging

[beans20]

I need some help! I just installed 7x.011 DFI injectors, I currently have a quadzilla with custom tunes as well. After I installed the injectors I’m getting a surging only when I press the clutch in to come bring the truck to a stop. Idles just fine no issues, no white smoke no ungodly knocking sounds. Idk what the issue is. I reset the apps after injector install since I unplugged it to install them. This surge happened with and Edge EZ as well. Can anyone help me narrow down the issue? Also no CEL codes.

I should add this is 2000 Dodge Ram 3500 has approx. 181k miles.

Edited August 2, 2020 by beans20

[CAMG3X]

I'm guessing it's fueling hand off from ecm to quadzilla fueling at idle state. Perhaps others can come in, but when I switched over to large injectors my truck would almost have a low lope when depressing the clutch to get going. Messed with the fuel tuning a bit down low and it seems to have helped with hand off 

[beans20]

10 hours ago, CAMG3X said:

I'm guessing it's fueling hand off from ecm to quadzilla fueling at idle state. Perhaps others can come in, but when I switched over to large injectors my truck would almost have a low lope when depressing the clutch to get going. Messed with the fuel tuning a bit down low and it seems to have helped with hand off 

Yeah I kind of figured maybe it has something to do with that. But I also don’t know for sure. I don’t know how to tune it, so I don’t really want to mess with it. I’ll see if I can’t get someone to help me out.

[Me78569]

Semi normal with big injectors and a tune.  The ecm is in control at this point and it is trying to manage rpm vs fuel.

 

The ecm is programmed to think it needs xx% duration to keep idle.  Bigger injectors means it only needs yy% so it drops fueling but it overshoots then fuels harder and then overshoots and repeats

[beans20]

8 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Semi normal with big injectors and a tune.  The ecm is in control at this point and it is trying to manage rpm vs fuel.

 

The ecm is programmed to think it needs xx% duration to keep idle.  Bigger injectors means it only needs yy% so it drops fueling but it overshoots then fuels harder and then overshoots and repeats

Would more custom tuning help control this issue? 

[Mopar1973Man]

13 minutes ago, beans20 said:

Would more custom tuning help control this issue? 

No. Even my truck does it with 7 x 0.010 injectors popped at 320 bar with a Quadzilla there is no way to tune it out. My truck requires a special way o drive it. If you just dump the clutch it will typically stall out. Coming to a stop it will lope till it stops completely. Then it idles a perfect 800 RPM. The problem is just like @Me78569 the Stock ECM is attempting to manage like its stock injectors. Even the Quadzilla hands back off to the ECM at near idle, so hence there is no way to tune it out. 

[beans20]

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

No. Even my truck does it with 7 x 0.010 injectors popped at 320 bar with a Quadzilla there is no way to tune it out. My truck requires a special way o drive it. If you just dump the clutch it will typically stall out. Coming to a stop it will lope till it stops completely. Then it idles a perfect 800 RPM. The problem is just like @Me78569 the Stock ECM is attempting to manage like its stock injectors. Even the Quadzilla hands back off to the ECM at near idle, so hence there is no way to tune it out. 

Thank you, that’s kind of a relief. I’ll just have to figure out how to drive it and keep it under better control. I would’ve posted a video of it but I don’t know how. 

[Mopar1973Man]

18 minutes ago, beans20 said:

I would’ve posted a video of it but I don’t know how. 

Upload the video to youtube and post the link here. Pause jus a bit and video frame will pop up.

 

Like this...

 

[beans20]

https://youtu.be/_92Z1ruE5q0

 

 

It surges quite a bit more when the A/C is on.

Edited August 2, 2020 by beans20

[Mopar1973Man]

Check you valve lash that may help. Mine is lopey too but not quite that bad. I did a set of 7 x 0.010 SAC nozzles that had that kind of lopey idle. Then when I switch back to VCO that help minimize the lope a bit.  

[beans20]

57 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Check you valve lash that may help. Mine is lopey too but not quite that bad. I did a set of 7 x 0.010 SAC nozzles that had that kind of lopey idle. Then when I switch back to VCO that help minimize the lope a bit.  

Yep mine are SAC.  the last thing I want to do is buy another set of injectors. Could do just nozzles, but don’t have any good shops I know of around my area to test pop pressures. 

[Mopar1973Man]

I just sent mine back to DAP and asked to change the stock nozzles for the 7 x 0.010 and then asked to have them popped at 320 bar. You can request to have the old nozzles sent back too. Which I've still got my wore out OE stock nozzles on the shelf. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[beans20]

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I just sent mine back to DAP and asked to change the stock nozzles for the 7 x 0.010 and then asked to have them popped at 320 bar. You can request to have the old nozzles sent back too. Which I've still got my wore out OE stock nozzles on the shelf. 

Yeah I just messaged DFI to see if I can send them in to have nozzles changed to VCO and popped. 320 bar would be sufficient for them? If so I’ll see if they’ll pop them there. Thank you very much for all your help as well sir. 

[Me78569]

I wouldn't bother it's just the ecm being the ecm.

 

No real issue.

[beans20]

https://youtu.be/TAfizW7QQYs

 

After verifying valve lash. Idles perfectly to me. Extremely quiet truck.

[Unreal Summit]

On the opposite side of things could I use the quadzilla to tune the injectors down to were the egts are to high? Say some 100hp injectors on a hy35 Turbo?

 

Also did checking valve lash help your trucks issue or just the extra nosie?

[beans20]

1 hour ago, Unreal Summit said:

On the opposite side of things could I use the quadzilla to tune the injectors down to were the egts are to high? Say some 100hp injectors on a hy35 Turbo?

 

Also did checking valve lash help your trucks issue or just the extra nosie?

Haven’t driven it yet, just did it because I needed to get a round to it anyway. I highly doubt that it will act any different, the valves weren’t out of spec maybe one or two were barely out. But nothing drastic. 

 

7 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I just sent mine back to DAP and asked to change the stock nozzles for the 7 x 0.010 and then asked to have them popped at 320 bar. You can request to have the old nozzles sent back too. Which I've still got my wore out OE stock nozzles on the shelf. 

I will probably have my stock injectors sent in to DAP for a new set of nozzles and popped just to have a spare set of injectors laying around. I don’t think that would hurt anything. 

[Me78569]

Yes. Couple of guys tuned down 7 x .011 and .012 to run with a hx35

[Unreal Summit]

I didn't think it would effect the issue.  I know mine need to at least checked when I do my injectors but I got a feeling I'll have a few a little out of spec.  

 

I think I'll try 75 over maybe the 100 I was thinking I could just set the can bus pretty low and make up the difference that way. However I wasn't sure how low I could go 

[Me78569]

Follow the tuning guide steps.