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Overload Springs......and Happy Thanksgiving


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Hello everyone, want to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving especially to MoparMan, IBMobile and W-T for adding so much education to this site. Special mention to Dripley who always provides Chicken. Sorry :drool:, I know the rules...... couldn't help it.

 

Anyhow about the overloads, what is the best way to get the overloads back inaction as I have Air Bags on the truck that does not let the overloads help and the air bags sometimes bounce the truck side to side like crazy. I'm thinking bump stop extensions , but don't see how they would last holding on for dear life with just one bolt holding each one. Thanks for any thoughts

Edited by JAG1
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How are your airbags plumbed? Separate or with a T? 
 

After nearly 15 years of owning rigs with airbags I’ve never had them provide side to side bounce. I always let my truck sag 1-1.5 over an empty/5psi stance and let it sit there. So I think something is amiss in your setup. 
 

I did feel my dads truck bounce side to side and it was from over inflation of the bags. Not enough weight was on the leaf springs. It was a drawback to his 2” level. Are you leveled? 
 

Do you let the OEM suspension sag to ensure it’s loaded too? 
 

 

As far as the overloads my 05 had them and they weren’t in play at my normal 1-1.5” sag. I thought about several ways to engage them and the idea I liked best was the torklift upper stableloads. I was concerned that they would provide jarring when the truck was empty thou, as rough roads would cause them to engage much sooner and under normal empty suspension cycling on FS roads.  I never did buy them thou, as I never could actually justify them. 
 

I would routinely run at 7-7.5K on the rear axle and as high as 9K on rare occasion, thanks to my 19.5’s. None of that required more air than 90psi in the bags, and normally not more than 60 psi. That was all with a 1” level, a stock truck would have used less and sagged 2-2.5”. I don’t recommend a 2” level for these reasons. 


So, there are my thoughts. If you really want them then look at upper stableloads, but you shouldn’t need them. 

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I have never had the air bags so I cannot comment on them. It would seem that @AH64ID knows them pretty well. I have rum mine with no bags and only relied on the overload springs to keep things level and carry the load. They have done that well for the life of the truck. So how ever the stops are attached seems more than acceptable to me for the past 19 years. This is with about 6k on the rear axle.

I should add, you are forgiven for the chicken joke.

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Yeah you guys they are plumbed separately. Got a one inch lever kit in the front. I been inflating the bags to about 45-55 lbs. Side to side movement is only occasional like hitting a speed bump on a diagonal. That really gets the boat rockin. Also sometimes running down those back roads that aren't graded the best. Just would like it a bit firmer by putting the springs back to work.

Edited by JAG1
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Are you sure it isn't tires? I have had 3k overloads on the on the 97 since I got it. It has the aforementioned side to side wobble going over some terrain. Me shaking the truck revealed little, if any, play in the in the suspension whether the overloads are connected or not. The sidewalls would give a good inch and a half either direction. 

 

Ill have to go back and look at it again if you find something different, always bugged me.

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39 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Yeah you guys they are plumbed separately. Got a one inch lever kit in the front. I been inflating the bags to about 45-55 lbs. Side to side movement is only occasional like hitting a speed bump on a diagonal. That really gets the boat rockin. Also sometimes running down those back roads that aren't graded the best. Just would like it a bit firmer by putting the springs back to work.


What is your RAW? 
 

45-55psi seems like a lot unless your rear axle is near maxed out. 

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3 hours ago, JAG1 said:

I been inflating the bags to about 45-55 lbs.

 

2 hours ago, AH64ID said:

What is your RAW? 
 

45-55psi seems like a lot unless your rear axle is near maxed out.

38 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

It is approx. at 3400 lbs

 

Am I missing something here?  My truck empty:

 

Front axle - 4,400 lb.

Rear axle  - 3,050 lb  (air bags at 5 psi or less), 9000 series rancho shocks - rear on 3, front on 5

Gross weight - 7,450 lb

 

My truck with slide-in camper:

 

Front axle - 4,850

Rear axle  - 6,150  (50 psi in air bags)  9000  series rancho shocks - rear on 8, front on 5 or 6

Gross weight - 11,000 lb

 

With slide-in camper and 50 psi in the airbags, the truck handled well.  If I recall, the rear part of the overload spring made contact and the front part had a small gap.  Heavier bumps engaged the overloads.

 

- John

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8 hours ago, JAG1 said:

Yeah you guys they are plumbed separately. Got a one inch lever kit in the front. I been inflating the bags to about 45-55 lbs. 

 

If this is with an empty truck you have way too much air in them. 5-10 psi is enough, that is what I run in my Ford and '91 Dodge. I do not run bags on my '01. I also never add air when I load it up. As the springs sag with added weight the bag psi goes up on it's own, as they compress.

 

Since I don't run bags on the '01, I added a block between the main springs and overloads for quicker contact, more capacity and used larger u-bolts. My truck is not leveled. When you tow or haul heavy in the truck, you need the oem rake, it is there for a reason.

 

 

downsized_0704151528a.jpg

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@JAG1 you need to go out and weight the truck again with the camper in the bed.  Get front axle, full weight and rear axle weight. This way everyone can figure against your current weight. 

 

With even my RV I know I'm right at the 8,800# on the truck. If I dug around a bit I can find that photo of me on the scales and axles weights even for the trailer. 

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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10 hours ago, JAG1 said:

It is approx. at 3400 lbs


Way too much air in the bags. Drop them to 5 psi at that weight. 
 

With your stock tires you shouldn’t ever need more than 50-60 psi, and that will be with tires nearing 100% load. 

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Okay you guys, as usual, got me goin straight....... Yes that is the weight of the camper I gave you and should have said something about how I never weighed the rear and maybe could guesstimate for me.

 

All in all It would have been better if I left the front alone, never putting on a 2 in. level kit and even finally going to a one inch level kit. I do like the ride with the air bags, is better, but sometimes feels like a balloon with side to side motion that likes to take its time going away.

 

That spacer block Nisaacs is fantastic idea and I like the heavier looking 'U bolts' too. I thank you for that bud.

 

 

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Quote

Way too much air in the bags. Drop them to 5 psi at that weight. 
 

With your stock tires you shouldn’t ever need more than 50-60 psi, and that will be with tires nearing 100% load.

Absolutely correct... :iagree:

 

60 PSI all the way around will hold... using stock tire information (265's, 245's or 235's)

 

60 PSI / 80 PSI (max) = 0.75 x 3042 (capacity) = 2,281 pounds x 4 tires = 9,126 pounds. <- If all 4 tires inflated to 60 PSI.

 

55 PSI / 80 PSI (max) 0.6875 x 3042 (capacity) = 2,091 pounds x 4 tires = 8,364 pounds <- If all 4 tires inflated to 55 PSI.

 

50 PSI / 80 PSI (max) 0.625 x 3042 (capacity) = 1,901 pounds x 4 tires = 7,605 pounds <- If all 4 tires inflated to 50 PSI.

 

Remember 2500 series has a max vehicle capacity of 8,800#

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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3 hours ago, NIsaacs said:

Since I don't run bags on the '01, I added a block between the main springs and overloads for quicker contact, more capacity and used larger u-bolts. My truck is not leveled. When you tow or haul heavy in the truck, you need the oem rake, it is there for a reason.

 

 

downsized_0704151528a.jpg

 

That is a great solution!  I considered doing something like that when I had my slide-in camper. I should have done it, but I never followed through.  I sold that camper about six years ago and bought a 19 foot travel trailer with a single slide.  My GCW is now 12,000 lb (only 1,000 lb more than with slide-in camper) and I now have four braking axles and a low center of gravity - much more relaxing to tow.

 

- John

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Is it possible to subtract the weight of the axle/ differentials, wheels and tires because they actually rest on the ground? Not on the suspension? :shrug: Most likely a moot question.

 

Makes me wonder what type filter is used on this forum to get all the best people around here Thank you all :thumb1:

 

John sometimes I hate running with that camper, but at times when up in remote places I'm so glad I got it. 17 years of white knuckles and learned to take it easy on uncrowded highways and byways is better.

 

Nisaacs, is that spacer a piece of UHMW plastic, as it looks white? Also do you remember where you got the U bolts and how much you torque them down? Thank you so much.      

Edited by JAG1
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29 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Absolutely correct... :iagree:

 

60 PSI all the way around will hold... using stock tire information (265's, 245's or 235's)

 

60 PSI / 80 PSI (max) = 0.75 x 3042 (capacity) = 2,281 pounds x 4 tires = 9,126 pounds. <- If all 4 tires inflated to 60 PSI.

 

55 PSI / 80 PSI (max) 0.6875 x 3042 (capacity) = 2,091 pounds x 4 tires = 8,364 pounds <- If all 4 tires inflated to 55 PSI.

 

50 PSI / 80 PSI (max) 0.625 x 3042 (capacity) = 1,901 pounds x 4 tires = 7,605 pounds <- If all 4 tires inflated to 50 PSI.

 

Remember 2500 series has a max vehicle capacity of 8,800#


The pressures I was referring to were air bag pressures, not tire pressures. 
 

 

Yes the GVWR is 8800#, but that’s a meaningless number in many states including Idaho. Axle/tire limits are what determines the legal weight, mainly tires but axle limits do matter some. No issues going above GVWR in many many places. 

30 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Okay you guys, as usual, got me goin straight....... Yes that is the weight of the camper I gave you and should have said something about how I never weighed the rear and maybe could guesstimate for me.

 

All in all It would have been better if I left the front alone, never putting on a 2 in. level kit and even finally going to a one inch level kit. I do like the ride with the air bags, is better, but sometimes feels like a balloon with side to side motion that likes to take its time going away.

 

That spacer block Nisaacs is fantastic idea and I like the heavier looking 'U bolts' too. I thank you for that bud.

 

 


Are you saying that the camper is always in the truck?
 

I’m not sure I know what you’re after, loaded or empty issues? 
 

Next time you’re out driving and pass a closed weight station pull in. The scales are almost always on. 
 

Ive done plenty of heavy hauling with a 1” level, it’s exponentially better than a 2” level when loaded. 
 

How much do you let the truck sag when you load the camper? 
 

Is the rocking with the camper or without? Or both? 
 

Does your truck have an anti-sway bar on the rear axle? If so, have you inspected the bushings? 

Edited by AH64ID
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1 hour ago, JAG1 said:

Is it possible to subtract the weight of the axle/ differentials, wheels and tires because they actually rest on the ground? Not on the suspension? :shrug:

 

Weight is weight... Doesn't matter put it on the scale and weigh it out. Weigh is on everything ground, tires, suspension, frame etc.

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Jag it sounds like you have too much air in bags and possibly wore out or weak shocks for what you do. Of course front level kit doesn't help you in this situation. Eat the turkey save the chicken, they get a break this time of year. 

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3 hours ago, JAG1 said:

 

Nisaacs, is that spacer a piece of UHMW plastic, as it looks white? Also do you remember where you got the U bolts and how much you torque them down? Thank you so much.      

 

It is some old aluminum tubing from an RV awning that I filled up with 1/8" strap.

 

Here is a link to the u-bolts I used. You do need to drill out the holes in the bottom spring clamp. They were easy to drill. The original u-bolts are too small and mine were rusted almost in half where they pass though the clamp. It is a catch all for mud/dirt. I bolted the new block to the overloads and the head of the bolt will fit in the original block.

 

http://www.stengelbros.net/product.asp?itemid=14433 

 

 

0704151409.jpg

0704151410.jpg

downsized_0704151528.jpg

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Nice work Nisaacs. I'm like you I like to do good work. Thank you again so much

 

John, yes the camper is almost always on with that truck and the camper has a winter package with a heated basement and tanks so it is higher up. The truck came with a camper package with front and rear sway bars and two springs on each side for overloads. The shocks are the KYB MonoMax and are still acting like Katooms nightmare being so stiff like riding in a lumber truck when empty.

 

When truck shopping the dealer let me take home a dually, but I just couldn't get used to the extra wheel projecting out in the mirrors. They would do better to build the bed wider, would be handy for hauling and you could get used to driving a larger vehicle instead of a standard size when you might forget about those fenders sticking out.

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@JAG1, you are describing a camper very similar to what I used to own.  Mine was a four season Citation with basement made by General Coach in Canada.  The manufacturer stated that the camper weighed 2700 lbs with 20 gallons of water and two full propane tanks.  With our gear thrown in, it weighed about 3,500 lbs.  Combined with the truck - about 11,000 lbs - 4,850 on the front and 6,150 on the rear.  

 

As suggested by others, you should weigh the rig.  Weigh each axle separately and write the weights down.  You will probably find that your front axle weight will increase only about 500 lbs or less.  The rest of the weight will be resting on the rear axle.  

 

I used the Rancho 9000 series shock absorber because there are 9 adjustable positions to incrementally control resistance to the hydraulic flow when the shock extends.  This makes the shock perform well with a loaded or empty truck, especially  a loaded truck with a high center of gravity.

 

Let us know what the results are if you decide to weigh the rig.

 

- John

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I will John as I need to give that truck a full warm up again soon. My total weight last time I did it was 10,200. never did the axles seperate though. I used to have Rancho shocks years ago and found the adjustment had corroded and froze up.

 

I have the U bolts on order that Nisaacs said to get and going to make my own one inch spacer block also. It looks like with the added spacer the overloads will be just starting to contact the bump stops. That and letting out 20 lbs of air from the air bags will help. I will let everyone know how it worked out.

 

BTW, I will have to go Tukey huntin' instead so dripley doesn't get winged and missed 50 times before I hit 'em. What great target practice that was last year.

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