need help deciding on a turbo

[Silverwolf2691]

@dieselautopower what is the difference between the 64.5/73.4/12, a 63/68/12 (or 14), and a 62/68/14? I understand for racing only the benefit of the big turbine wheel but drivability and my pulling class are my only hang ups..

 

why do I have a feeling im at the last step before i have to start leaving the do it all path and start getting specialized with all the pros and cons that come with it.. 

The perks of racing lol.

 

If anyone wants to see vids of my pulls i can post them up, might help with advice. Or I'll put those in their own thread to keep this one on topic. 

 

 

[Dieselfuture]

10 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

If anyone wants to see vids of my pulls i can post them up, might help with advice. Or I'll put those in their own thread to keep this one on topic. 

Can you put it on YouTube and post a link here

[Silverwolf2691]

this was my first pull ever. Edge EZ, +50s. Pulled 120ft. At the start there's a puff of blue smoke from idling waiting my turn to pull.

 

 First pull of 2020, pulled 240ft, only change was quadzilla v2 but not wire tapped

 

Most recent pull, not proud of this one despite being close to 400ft. i rushed and didn't realize that the 4x4 lever had a roll of duct tape around it preventing it from engaging fully. On top of that i started in 4lo 2nd and tried shifting gears to try to "save" the pull. this caused the shifter to pop out slightly and grind on the synchro, hence the noise at 1:10. They let me repull got ino 4lo 4th like it should be, and away i went. This was my first time with wiretap ever so it was an experience. i placed 3rd with 397ft, i backed out of it because the sled operator told us not to go into the grass at the end of the track. 

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Very impressive videos. Congrats to you making improvement in getting it down the track. 

[dieselautopower]

13 hours ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

@dieselautopower what is the difference between the 64.5/73.4/12, a 63/68/12 (or 14), and a 62/68/14? I understand for racing only the benefit of the big turbine wheel but drivability and my pulling class are my only hang ups..

 

why do I have a feeling im at the last step before i have to start leaving the do it all path and start getting specialized with all the pros and cons that come with it.. 

The perks of racing lol.

 

If anyone wants to see vids of my pulls i can post them up, might help with advice. Or I'll put those in their own thread to keep this one on topic. 

 

 

Check out the turbine sheet I posted earlier.   These are non gated T4 housings.  Consider that a T4 will flow more than a T3, and that a wastegate adds about 20% more flow when open.

On the map the turbine wheels are referenced by the inducer and in our normal dodge speak we reference the exducer

so on the map a 74mm = what we reference as a 65mm

76mm = 68mm

80mm=73.4mm

when we switch to speaking of s400 wheels we usually reference the inducer (83,87,96 etc)

 

 

Turbine flow will be important for higher RPM and HP.  you should monitor your drive pressure as more than 1.2 drive to 1.0 boost = excess back pressure and pumping losses resulting in lost HP  (IE 60psi back pressure and 50 psi of boost = 1.2: 1.0)

 

68/12 is similar to 65/14

68/14

73.4/12

73.4/14 and .91 T4

Compressor wheels... keep in mind that this is inducer and exducer and does not include height of the tips

hx35 commonly 52/83 or 54/83 ~ 52-54lbs/minute

K27 60/??mm  ~55-56lbs/minute (its designed specifically for fast spool and high rpm.... not great for flow.

older cast 57mm SuperB 57/83 60lbs/minute

HE351 60/86  66lbs/minute

GXE 57.2/76.2 66lbs/minute

SXE "62"  61.44/83 76-77lbs/minute

63/88 78 lbs/minute (design better for high altitude)

64.5/88 81lbs/minute

66/91 88lbs/minute

69/91 105lbs/minute

72/91 111lbs/minute

 

There is a big jump in weight from the "62mm to the 63mm.  The 63mm and the 64.5mm is almost the same weight (exducer is the back of the wheel which is solid aluminum).  Just like the 66mm and the 69mm are almost the same weight.

 

Without knowing what your drive pressure is from a similar set up its hard to make a recommendation that is precise.  Going to a 73.4mm wheel will allow more more flow without an external wastegate.  

 

Hope I answered some of your questions.  Maybe someone else can add to or explain better.

[Silverwolf2691]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Very impressive videos. Congrats to you making improvement in getting it down the track. 

Thank you, there are two other videos if you head to youtube that i had posted. The orange sled is very light it might top 20k lbs fully loaded, but im really unsure about that one. the green sled is 40k empty and fully comes off the ground when it transfers, orange one doesn't. but the owner of the orange sled (our club's vice president) is starting to build a bigger sled similar to the green one so we have more capability. 

 

1 hour ago, dieselautopower said:

68/12 is similar to 65/14

68/14

73.4/12

73.4/14 and .91 T4

 

Is the 68/14 and 73.4/12 supposed to be compared? 

 

1 hour ago, dieselautopower said:

Hope I answered some of your questions.  Maybe someone else can add to or explain better.

 

You did, its the balance of expense vs. reviews on everything. It seems like for every person say it spools fine, there's another that says it was horrible. And weeding through the bad tuning or common rail guys posting in second gen areas gets daunting. i think that part of the reason i'm asking that i'm asking, trying to be well enough informed to make a decision with semi confidence and an understanding of the drawbacks. 

[Threadzy]

1 hour ago, dieselautopower said:

that a wastegate adds about 20% more flow when open.

This is probably a dumb question but how does an open wastegate add flow if its blowing the air out the exhaust pipe? 

[Silverwolf2691]

Just now, Threadzy said:

This is probably a dumb question but how does an open wastegate add flow if its blowing the air out the exhaust pipe? 

 

think of a hydro electric dam, has holes in the bottom that allow water through, but they are relatively small for the volume of water. when there is too much water it has to go somewhere or damage can happen. they build spill ways to release water around the dam so nothing gets hurt, while the same volume of water goes through the turbines making electricity. wastegate allow small turbines to spool quick but not be over sped at high rpms. hope that helps..

[dieselautopower]

Is the 68/14 and 73.4/12 supposed to be compared?   73.4/12 will flow more  (I think it would compare nicely to the 80/71 in 14cm gated housing that was on the super B special for many years) 

 

@Threadzy  Speaking of turbine flow.

12 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

 

You did, its the balance of expense vs. reviews on everything. It seems like for every person say it spools fine, there's another that says it was horrible. And weeding through the bad tuning or common rail guys posting in second gen areas gets daunting. i think that part of the reason i'm asking that i'm asking, trying to be well enough informed to make a decision with semi confidence and an understanding of the drawbacks. 

You can see that any s300 option you pick will be a significant upgrade in compressor and turbine flow.  

Edited March 11, 2021 by dieselautopower

[Threadzy]

Ok that makes sense. The wastegate opening helps pull more exhaust out through the turbine side. 

[NIsaacs]

15 hours ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

this was my first pull ever. Edge EZ, +50s. Pulled 120ft. At the start there's a puff of blue smoke from idling waiting my turn to pull.

 

 First pull of 2020, pulled 240ft, only change was quadzilla v2 but not wire tapped

 

Most recent pull, not proud of this one despite being close to 400ft. i rushed and didn't realize that the 4x4 lever had a roll of duct tape around it preventing it from engaging fully. On top of that i started in 4lo 2nd and tried shifting gears to try to "save" the pull. this caused the shifter to pop out slightly and grind on the synchro, hence the noise at 1:10. They let me repull got ino 4lo 4th like it should be, and away i went. This was my first time with wiretap ever so it was an experience. i placed 3rd with 397ft, i backed out of it because the sled operator told us not to go into the grass at the end of the track. 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing, nutin gets the blood pumping like the starting line of a sled pull!

 

My 1975 F-250 gasser, 6500# stock class.

 

Missing my old sled puller and smelling the 110 burning about a 1/2 gallon in 300' Re-posting Marana, AZ 2015, the old 440 FE gets it done! I think they call that, "takin it out the gate"

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by NIsaacs

[Silverwolf2691]

@dieselautopower, because of the pulling rules for our area, I either have to stay at 63mm or go bigger and get limited to one class.. Would the 63mm compressor work with the 73.4 turbine/12cm^2 housing or would there be a better option?

 

Secondary thought regarding injectors, would a set of +200s from Infinite Performance (8x.010s) be able to spool well with the 73.4 turbine?

 

Also just an update for everyone as well, i'm info gathering right now, and financially other things had to come first so these upgrades have to take back burner for a bit.

[Mopar1973Man]

How deep are you dipping retard in your timing? Watch the timing value and tell me the lowest you see when you get into the throttle part way. Basically if you retard the timing you are adding more flame front to the turbo. Spools much easier. I'm only +50 behind you with 7 x 0.10 injectors. Turbo isn't as big (60/60/12) vs yours (63/74/12) so you going to need more retarded timing long to get the turbo spooled up. Once spooled to about 5 PSI then you can start flipping back to advanced timing. I would go for 200 HP injector...

Edited March 30, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Silverwolf2691]

Still HX35, still waiting on that money tree to sprout lol.  

 

You are actually +100 ahead of me and a larger compressor.

 

Just info gathering right now.. and saving up for some of the more safety based stuff.. driveline shields, traction bars, etc. 

[dieselautopower]

200HP injectors would be fine.  I think the 8x.010 sac would be fine, of go a little bigger with the 7x.012 sac

 

Double duty of street and sled its hard to be competitive.

 

if you can do the s463.5 then you will get more top end performance out of it.  

if you want something in the middle the 63/73/12 gated will flow more than the 63/68/14 and if you decide you want more flow you can go T4 and 1.00 housing with the 73mm turbine if you want to make it better for sled pulling.

[Silverwolf2691]

3 minutes ago, dieselautopower said:

Double duty of street and sled its hard to be competitive.

 

isn't that what work stock is supposed to be? lol..

 

With everything i've read about pulling on other forums its getting insane how much power you are wringing from these trucks. nadm and lucas pro pulling are north of 1200hp I believe for the 2.6 class.. Don't know if its happened yet but there's constantly a push for open driveline in 2.6 due to all the breakage of factory 1 ton or less parts.

 

Luckily, our area is much smaller in terms of power meaning, you can drive in, pull, and go home if you don't break anything. Even our enhanced class still has people that drive in and drive home..

[dieselautopower]

Yes it is crazy competitive in some areas.  If you are doing it for fun its a different goal set and budget than if you are competing and an ego is on the line.  

 

[Silverwolf2691]

Time to bring this back again.

 

Wiped my turbo bearings last week. Turbo started making some weird noises over 10 psi. Thought it was a boost leak from the intercooler boot I messed with due to it rubbing through my lower coolant hose. Then over a couple days the sound started to change to a warbling hiss.. pulled the intake off no marks in the inside of the housing.. grab the wheel, no in and out movement. Go side to side, didn't move at first.. then dad tried and I started hearing clicking of metal.. ****.. Grabbed it and yeah its moving. Probably .030-.050 total from side to side.

 

So that just moved things around for plans.. 

 

@dieselautopower, since I'm at sea level to 1500ft where I pull, is there any issue with this compressor? I'm just asking because of the high altitude qualifier you put next to it.. 

Also I saw a dyno video from Power Driven Diesel where the 63 did not so great compared to a 62 and a 64.5.. They are also high elevation too (town is at 5800ft)..  

 

On 3/11/2021 at 10:38 AM, dieselautopower said:

63/88 78 lbs/minute (design better for high altitude

 

Here's the video from Power Driven Diesel

 

 

[dieselautopower]

The 62mm turbo is more responsive and flows almost as much.  For daily driving I recommend the 62mm.

 

for max power sled pulling you want more air if possible and you will be turning higher RPM.  The difference is small between them, but the 63mm would be my preference if you were not going to go to a s400 frame.  Depends on your set up.  The dual plane 8 hole sac injectors are working well for fast spoolup.

[Evan]

That power driven vid Was cool to watch.

 

I really like my 62 for All around driving towing