Garage Vehicle: Batteries Drained-No Power to Lift Pump-No Bus-No Start

[Rloosarow]

 

Vehicle Nickname: Batteries Drained-No Power to Lift Pump-No Bus-No Start
Date Added To The Garage: 2021-06-25
Garage Link: Batteries Drained-No Power to Lift Pump-No Bus-No Start

 

 

[dripley]

Might need a bit more info dealing with your problem to help.

[4GodnCntry]

I purchased this 2001 Dodge 3500 Cummins 4x4 Manual from a famous saddle maker in Colorado. I was warned about wiring issues related to the trailer hook up. I towed a 4 horse slant from Colorado as part of the purchase. All lights worked on the trailer and had no issues. I did add an Airdog full pump/filter system which had no issues at all. I also added an Quadzilla Adrenaline with no issues. I ran the truck for about a week or two before things went south.

 

A month or so later the water pump failed. No big deal since God got me home before she belched her fluid. A couple weeks later after a 4 hour drive I got home and noticed the rear brake light were on with vehicle off and key out of the ignition. Hmm. Tried several things but they wouldn't shut off. Because it was late and I was tired I went to bed. The next morning the batteries were drained because of the brake light issue. I charged the batteries for a full day and confirmed they were charged but now no crank, no Airdog noise and DLC shows "no bus". 

 

I did some research and found there are issues with the wiring harness on this model year so I did the ground mods recommended. No change, all the same symptoms. I then sent off the PSM (the computer mounted on the passenger side firewall) to Auto Computer Specialists. They found an issue with the PCM and corrected it and sent it back to me. I installed the PCM and tried to fore it up but when I first turned the key I heard what sound like a pop, maybe a fuse going out, not sure. Nothing changed from the original issue so I decided to pull the engine harness, ECM and PCM and ship them out to ACS for them to take a look at all of it.

 

ACS found the following:

 

OUR FINDINGS: No Communication to Lift Pump, Lift Pump and APP Circuit in Short, No 5 Volt Reference, No 9.5 Volts and Lose CPU!

REPAIRS PERFORMED: • Replaced Lift Pump Circuit • Replaced Flash Chip • Resoldered CPU • Resoldered 50 Pins • Replaced APP Circuit • Replaced 5 Volt Driver • Replaced 9.5 Volt Driver

 

ACS returned everything so I installed the two computers and the harness but no change. They recommend the following which I haven't verified:

Battery(s) and Terminals and clean all Grounds. Please see some Possible Causes below: • Please check with your local Dealership for TSB’s (Technical Service Bulletin) • Wiring Harness in Short (see our Wiring Harness Repair Services → HERE • Faulty Cam/Crank Sensor • Shorted Lift Pump • Shorted Sensors • Low Voltage upon Cranking • Jump Starting or Vice Versa • Shorted Alternator • Bad Batteries and Terminals • Bad Grounds • Heat and Vibration from the Motor and Time.

 

I'm about to replace the cam/crank sensor. Let's see how that goes. Getting tired of throwing money at this thing.

General Tech Notes - signed.pdf

[wil440]

First off, how did you confirm the batteries were 1. charged and 2. In good condition ? I take it there is no visible bulging of the casings ? Voltmeter across a battery doesn't really cut it for checking if they are good, disconnect them, charge them fully preferably low and slow (after checking electrolyte level) then do a drop test, most people do not have the equipment to drop test

Are the battery terminals good ?

If batteries are good, is the alternator good and not shorted ? 

Disconnect the quad... what happens ?

Disconnect the batteries and on reconnect with everything OFF there should only be the smallest of spark, if it is a proper splash (as called here) thats a good indicator of a short

 

Earths. The ones I have had problems with are down by the drivers headlight.... there are 2

 

Your new fuel lift pump, have you Ohms tested it to make sure it hasn't shorted out, the pos and neg wire to pump disconnect it and with a multimeter set on Ohms test to set what you have 0 is bad, the pump motor will have a resistance figure not sure what it would be. My meter is a Fluke ( Fluke being the meter manufacturer) and it bleeps when 0

 

Have you access to a good code reader ?  it might not work as you have bus problems but worth a try

 

I have just re read your post and firstly I would be disconnecting your reman ECM and PCM then check batteries, alternator and wiring then Lift 

 

This is what I would be doing..... not saying it's right

[Mopar1973Man]

Be aware this member is not a paid subscriber and can't respond. He cheated and posted his problem in the garage. 

[wil440]

32 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Be aware this member is not a paid subscriber and can't respond. He cheated and posted his problem in the garage. 

I wasn't aware of that BUT with the  problems with his truck I see another member subscribing soon..... 

And to the OP your crank/cam sensor will cost way more than subscribing and is in no way guaranteed to fix your truck 

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah I made use of the icon feature and it shows the round red ban icon. Just a heads up all subscribers are in green and show the plan used. 

[wil440]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yeah I made use of the icon feature and it shows the round red ban icon. Just a heads up all subscribers are in green and show the plan used. 

Am I missing something as the post I replied to shows quarterly sub in green

[Dieselfuture]

On 6/25/2021 at 8:23 PM, dripley said:

Might need a bit more info dealing with your problem to help.

Glad to see you here again 

[SilverMoose]

[Max Tune]

He posted back in June.

[Dieselfuture]

1 hour ago, Max Tune said:

He posted back in June.

Good eye, I completely didn't pay attention. Hope @dripley is ok...

[4GodnCntry]

Not sure why my username changed but I did post the original post in June. I was a paid member then and I am a paid member now. 
 

mopar1973man, why the warning? Anyway. I just don’t understand how this particular year model can have such a sensitive electronic system with so many flawed design features. You would think a weak battery could not create so much havoc and after charging/reconditioning/replacing with new the system would remain incapable of recovery.

 

I’ve spent years working on complicated electronic systems for the USG and have never encountered such a frail system like this truck. This thing is not a rocket, it’s a work truck. 
 

I had two routes to go when I first encountered the issues. Troubleshoot the electrical issue until it runs again. Or, remove the electronics all together and replace with a mechanical p-pump full system. $2000 into the electrical troubleshooting I think I might have chosen incorrectly.

[4GodnCntry]

Got the truck running after no luck for a year. Auto Computer Specialists worked on my PCM 3 times and the ECM twice and also cleaned up and checked the full engine wiring harness. Now of that fixed the issue stated above. Put in 2 new batteries, did a couple ground mods recommended on this site, still no luck.

 

A couple weeks ago I finally was able to get the truck into the shop on the lift. I found lots of wiring issues from previous owner's attempt at trailer wiring. Got all of that cleaned up but then noticed the right brake light and the third brake light stuck on with key in my pocket. Pulled bulbs, no change. Completely disconnected the third light and she fired right up. I have no idea what that had to do with crank/no start but that's the last thing I did before she started.

 

I still haven't figured out the brake lights issue so I've left the third light unplugged and the tail light fuse pulled so it doesn't drain my $400 worth of batteries. I'm going to try the Central Control thingy. The only gauges that don't work are the oil pressure and coolant temp.

 

New issue. Alternator smoking and getting really hot. Swapped the alternator and the new one is doing the same thing. I'm getting no power out of the alternator 12V lug so truck runs on batteries so I can't drive it. I'm thinking I might have fried the PCM again but besides the alternator, tail and brake lights and gauges issues the truck seems happy. I thought of installing an external voltage regulator but you folks seem to not like that route. I'm just tired of dealing with computer issues and I think Auto Computer Specialists are getting tired of me too.

[IBMobile]

These two articles might help. 

 

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/51_engine/electrical/alternator-not-charging-testing-voltage-control-r538/

 

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/51_engine/electrical/alternator-and-pcm-protection-r617/