2nd Brand New Redhead Popping

[YeaImDylan]

Hey all, back with more problems.

 

So, got most of the friend end rebuilt at a shop and got a red head installed. The popping noise when turning went away for a day or two and then was back. Truck was down for awhile for fuel in oil and I brought it back to the shop under warranty. They replace the redhead because it was also leaking when turning. They then told me it was still popping after the replacement and they think it was the frame being cracked in that area. They welded it and I bit the bullet on that price tag. Drive the truck back with no popping when turning and the next day its back again... I don't think it was the frame causing the noise. It was cracked but I think it's something with the box. I can feel the pop with a screw driver and its felt better near the top of the box rather than on the frame where the repair was made.. I'm at a loss and this truck has been nothing but problems lol I'm planning to call redhead and ask about this all because I have seen posts about the boxes coming too tight from them but man, 2 in a row?!

[Tractorman]

More questions than answers...

 

2 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

So, got most of the friend end rebuilt at a shop and got a red head installed.

 

What front end parts were replaced and why?  What was wrong with the old steering gearbox?

 

3 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

They replace the redhead because it was also leaking when turning.

 

So, two steering boxes were installed?  

 

When did the popping sound begin occurring (relative to repairs)?  Before? After? in the middle?

 

How many miles on the truck? on the steering parts? 

 

Has the steering shaft ever been replaced?

 

I doubt that the steering gearbox is making the popping sound.

 

- John

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Should of done a blue top steering box. Yeah I've had a few issues but Ryan took care of me promptly. He also took the time to verify what was going on with the box and steering.

 

@Blue-Top Steering

[YeaImDylan]

On 5/22/2022 at 9:53 PM, Tractorman said:

More questions than answers...

 

 

What front end parts were replaced and why?  What was wrong with the old steering gearbox?

 

 

So, two steering boxes were installed?  

 

When did the popping sound begin occurring (relative to repairs)?  Before? After? in the middle?

 

How many miles on the truck? on the steering parts? 

 

Has the steering shaft ever been replaced?

 

I doubt that the steering gearbox is making the popping sound.

 

- John

 

Sorry for the delay gents. 

 

@Tractorman

 

Truck has 300k. I'll list below what I had the shop replace

 

• Steering box (w/ a redhead)
• Left Inner tie rod
• Left Outer tie rod
• Right outer tie rod
• Pitman Arm tie rod
• 2 tie rod adjustment sleeves
• Both sway bar end links
• Track bar
• Steering Stabilizer
• Track bar bolt and nut

The popping noise had been occurring before I took it to the shop the first time to have the above parts replaced. Steering was sloppy and I figured these items may have been original. Previous owner had replaced ball joints but with cheap ones.. I plan on replacing those in the future but alignment shop said they weren't terrible.

 

The pop seems to happen more when turning the wheel to the left  and then coming back to the right in that same spot, doesn't do it again until I am turning it back to the left. Steering also seems pretty stiff and doesn't like to turn easily all the way to lock. I felt my friend's steering with an OEM box and 35's and it turned flawlessly all the way to lock. I thought it was the steering box having issues with the bearings and whatnot inside causing the popping sound. The old steering box was also stripped on one of the holes.

 

Got the truck back the first time and drove it home with no more popping. The next day or so, the snap/pop returned. Truck went down for a few weeks due to fuel in oil and then once that was situated, I took it back to the shop because it was still popping and also the redhead was leaking when turning a lot to say back into a space. They replace the redhead and then said the frame was cracked at the I believe sway bar area (I can post a picture of before and after the welds). Truck stopped popping after that and then I get it back to the barracks and low and behold... It's making the same popping again. I don't think its the frame nor was the frame even though it was cracked in that area. There's no way the frame was moving enough to make popping noises. A creak noise.. maybe but that was not the case. Steering shaft has not ever been replaced I'm assuming.

 

When I put a screwdriver up to the box, I feel the pop more towards the top. Maybe it is just the shaft and when they would install the boxes and move it around, it would fix itself for a few miles before falling back to its weakened point where there's weak points from wear?

 

@Mopar1973ManI was wanting a blue top but at the time I was getting the repairs done, they were out of stock for my year sadly. I was wanting to save the money and get the same quality part as a red head but it didn't work out that way.

 

I hope this write up can paint a better picture and hopefully we can figure out what's making this popping noise!

[Tractorman]

@YeaImDylan, excellent job providing information!

 

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

Steering shaft has not ever been replaced I'm assuming.

 

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

When I put a screwdriver up to the box, I feel the pop more towards the top. Maybe it is just the shaft and when they would install the boxes and move it around, it would fix itself for a few miles before falling back to its weakened point where there's weak points from wear?

 

I would inspect that steering shaft closely, especially since your are feeling the pop toward the top of the steering box and especially after it would fix itself for awhile after being worked on.

 

Years ago I replaced my original steering shaft with a Borgeson steering shaft.  A thousand miles or so later the steering developed a popping noise that I could feel in the steering wheel.  The feel was very subtle.  It took me 25,000 miles of driving to figure out the problem.  It turned out to be the slip yoke (sliding portion) on the new steering shaft.  Each time I would work on the steering, the problem would go away for a few days or a few hundred miles, but it always came back.  You can see in the photo below the arced spring that was used.  That spring (even well lubed) intermittently would stick and not allow for axial movement of the shaft.  That was the source of the popping sound.   I had to removed that spring.  The steering  has performed flawlessly for over 120,000 miles since.

 

This may not be your problem, but it clearly shows that some steering problem symptoms can be very hard to diagnose.  Take some time to diagnose and pay close attention to cause and effect, don't just change out parts.

 

- John

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Tractorman
Because I can't do it right the first time.

[YeaImDylan]

Thank you for the input @Tractorman! I will look into this. You say it was subtle in your case which mine isn’t… it’s pretty loud from outside the truck and I can feel it in the wheel. Obviously it’s more subtle there but feeling on the actual steering equipment underneath… not subtle by any means. Was this the case for you?

[Tractorman]

With the engine running and truck parked, can you operate the steering wheel back and forth to make the popping sound occur?

 

- John

[01_Cummins_4x4]

Check your trailing arms as well, They could be worn and moving enough to cause popping sounds and crappy steering characteristics.

 

[YeaImDylan]

4 hours ago, Tractorman said:

With the engine running and truck parked, can you operate the steering wheel back and forth to make the popping sound occur?

 

- John

Yes I have a video of it. I can also get it to make the noise with the truck off and a video of that as well. Easier to hear with the truck off

3 hours ago, 01_Cummins_4x4 said:

Check your trailing arms as well, They could be worn and moving enough to cause popping sounds and crappy steering characteristics.

 

By trailing arms are you referring to the control arms?

[Tractorman]

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

By trailing arms are you referring to the control arms?

 

I believe he is referring to the upper and lower control arms.

 

1 hour ago, YeaImDylan said:

Easier to hear with the truck off

 

At this point I would have someone operate the steering wheel to repeatedly make the noise.  I would crawl under the truck and with use of a stethoscope I would start checking every possible place that steering linkage or suspension components are connected to the frame or another component.   Don't rule out a frame crack in another location.

 

Components that are fastened by bolts, nuts, or rivets can leave a tell-tale sign of component movement.  If there is a well defined dark line where components mate, this could indicate movement.  Usually, a thin layer of road grime will cover this area if there is no movement.

 

Keep in mind that you may be certain that a sound is coming from a specific location, but in reality the source of the sound could be from an entirely different location.  Once, I had a Ford 1/2 ton truck that had a popping sound coming from the front passenger side.  I could turn the steering wheel from stop to stop and make it pop.   I spent lots of hours trying to figure it out.  A few months later during a routine maintenance inspection, I noticed that a rivet on the transmission crossmember had a dark line where the crossmember joined the frame - turns out the rivet had lost its full clamping force.  I had my wife operate the steering wheel and I could feel movement between the crossmember and frame when the popping sound occurred.   I replaced the rivet with a hardened bolt, washer and nut.  The popping sound from the front passenger side was gone and never came back.

 

You'll find it...

 

- John

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Tractorman

[Mopar1973Man]

21 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

@Mopar1973ManI was wanting a blue top but at the time I was getting the repairs done, they were out of stock for my year sadly. I was wanting to save the money and get the same quality part as a red head but it didn't work out that way.

 

He basically is turning around so fast there is no stock. He will receive yours rebuild and send back out. takes just about a hour or two to go through and he'll have it sent back out the next day. 

[YeaImDylan]

51 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

He basically is turning around so fast there is no stock. He will receive yours rebuild and send back out. takes just about a hour or two to go through and he'll have it sent back out the next day. 

Gotcha, wasn't aware of that. If I had been doing the work myself and had an appropriate place to work on the truck, I would've been more inclined to go through him for sure. Once I'm out of the military and have a house to work on my vehicles I will definitely be doing more repairs by myself lol and hopefully will have a spare vehicle to use while possibly waiting for a part to be rebuilt like in this case.

[YeaImDylan]

Hey all, thought I would update everyone because I have hopefully fixed the issue…

 

Friend and I were messing with the truck trying to find the pop noise. Noise stopped when the box had no stress on it (tie rod disconnected on ground and connected while on jack stands, no noise) so we unbolted the box and re torqued everything as well as some of the tie rods to make sure everything was tight. 
 

I looked up the specs for the big nut on the pitman arm and it was 40 ft lbs and then a 90 degree turn (roughly equal to 200-225 ft lbs). We did it to 40 (might have been 45 as the lowest setting on that wrench) and it turned a bit and then the wrench snapped… so it wasn’t even torqued much at all! Did the 90 degree rotation after hitting torque spec and the popping noise is gone! For now… drove it home last night and it’s still not doing it. Usually it comes back a day or 2 after I’d have work on the box done so we shall see.