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Some quick internet research on Propane Injection and Water/Methane injection. (Long)

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Propane Injection.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Propane is a three-carbon alkane, normally a gas, but compressible to a transportable liquid. It is derived from other petroleum products during oil or natural gas processing. It is commonly used as a fuel for engines, oxy-gas torches, barbecues, portable stoves and residential central heating.

A mixture of propane and butane, used mainly as vehicle fuel, is commonly known as liquefied petroleum gas (LPG or LP gas). It may also contain small amounts of propylene and/or butylene. An odorant such as ethanethiol or thiophene is added so that people can easily smell the gas in case of a leak.

Energy content

The energy density of propane is 46.44 megajoules per kilogram (91,690 BTU per gallon).

Weight per gallon

The density of propane at 25 degrees C is .493 grams per cubic centimeter. Converting gives 4.11 pounds per gallon. Thus, Propane weighs approximately 4.2 (+/- 0.1) pounds per US liquid gallon, at 60 degrees Fahrenheit. Propane expands 1.5% per 10 degrees F.

Price per gallon (from an internet search)

10/18/2010 Prices range from a North Dakota average of $1.62 to a Rode Island average of 3.26

Marketing description from ParleysDieselPerformance.com

Diesel Propane Injection – Propane injection for diesel engines is a time tested way to safely improve your horsepower and increase your diesel fuel mileage. When used properly, propane injection will keep your engine cleaner with less carbon buildup and cleaner oil. Propane is a high octane fuel. The slower and longer burn of propane helps your diesel fuel burn more thoroughly, increasing power, torque and fuel mileage. This is one of the best performance modifications for towing, since the use of some performance chips can lead to excessive exhaust gas temperatures when hauling large loads at high speeds, especially up significant grades. With a diesel propane injection system burning propane at approximately a 1:4 ratio to diesel fuel (1 gallon propane per 4 gallons diesel) the increase in exhaust gas temperatures will be minimal and the fuel economy gains will typically pay for the cost of the propane. Propane injection will work for all diesel engines including older mechanical systems.”

Marketing claims

Adds up to 100 Horsepower & 100+ Ft. Lbs. Torque

Substantial fuel economy gains (notice the subjective wording)

Excerpt http://moparmuscle.automotive.com/67354/mopp-0604-2001-dodge-ram-propane-injection/index.html (without permission)

Propane Injection For Dodge Ram Cummins Turbo Diesel - Propane - It's Not Just For Grilling Anymore

Installing MSD's Digital Propane Injection On Your Cummins-Powered Truck

By Dave Young

“We tested the system with the truck both loaded and unloaded and were impressed with the improvement in acceleration. We initially programmed the system to give us 100-percent capacity at 5 pounds of boost and expected to feel the system's "hit" when the propane was added. The system operated seamlessly, however, and the only indication that it was working was the speedometer's rapid acceleration to not-quite-legal speeds. Even when only programmed to 50-percent capacity while towing our 10,000-pound, enclosed car trailer, we found we had power to spare. No matter what incline we climbed, simply rolling into the throttle produced not just sustained speed, but acceleration, with transmission downshifts now a thing of the past. Exhaust temperature was also noted to be some 50 degrees cooler for a given driving parameter. A quick trip down the eighth-mile showed an improvement of six-tenths of a second and 5 mph when using the propane, with traction now limiting how hard we could launch the truck. Amazingly, it also makes economical sense to use the system when driving daily.

As a function of the extra power on tap, the economy of our truck improved drastically. In a controlled test at 65 mph, our highway mileage in an unloaded truck with the propane shut off was 24 mpg, not bad for a heavy dualie. With the propane injection on and set to initiate at five pounds of boost and give 50 percent of the systems capacity, our mileage increased to an amazing 44 mpg (factoring the diesel fuel used only)! Over a 100-mile test, we used 6 pounds of propane from our 30-pound tank, which cost $18 to fill at the local propane supplier, so the propane used for the test cost $3.60. Diesel fuel for the 100 miles was 2.27 gallons at $3 per gallon for a total of $6.82 in diesel fuel. Added together we get a total of $10.42 for the 100-mile test using propane. Without propane, we used 4.17 gallons of diesel at $3 per gallon for a total of $12.50, so we saved over $2 on a 100-mile test using propane. In addition to the cost savings, the use of propane provided us added range, which allowed us to shop for fuel, saving additional money because we now could go to the next exit or even the next state to find cheaper fuel. Even better results were obtained when towing-we saw mileage increase from 14 mpg without propane to 24 mpg when using propane injection. Our truck's range now had no problem exceeding the endurance of our bladder, even while towing our car trailer. We can derive mathematically that it doesn't take too long for the system to pay for itself, especially when diesel fuel in our area is hovering around the $3-per-gallon mark.”

Wow, that’s a 55% fuel economy increase with an unloaded truck, and a 58.3% increase with a 10,000 lb trailer.

Hmm… If all this can be taken at face value, the $800.00+ cost of the system could be worth the effort financially.

Water/Methane Injection

Marketing description from ParleysDieselPerformance.com

Provides better fuel economy (1-3 MPG), more power (50-100 HP), and lower Ehaust Gas Temperatures (150°-300° F)”

Cost of Methane

$33.80 + shipping for 5 gal. http://www.worldwideracingfuels.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=790072

Marketing description (FAQ) from snowperformance.com http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs_type.php?type=diesel

1. What are the benefits of Water/Methanol injection?

1. Greatly reduced EGTs - Decreases of 250 degrees F are common using a 50/50 water/methanol mix. Increased EGTs are an engine killer in today's performance diesel world.

2. Low cost power - Where else can you get 50-100 HP for as low as $549? What other modification does all these things with one system?

3. Greatly increased air charge densities - 3-5 psi boost increases are common with liquid intercooling.

4. Decreased emissions - increased combustion efficiency means less particulate matter and NOX emissions.

5. Fuel economy increase - increase your fuel economy up to 10%-15% (1-3 mpg).

6. Great for towing - more power/cooler EGT's to haul the heaviest loads.

2. Why is Water/Methanol injection so effective on Diesels?

Unlike gasoline engines, the power in a turbo diesel is largely a function of fuel. The problem with continually adding fuel is that you create an over-fueling condition and reach a point where the exhaust gas temperatures become prohibitive (over 1300 degrees F). A 50/50 water/methanol mix will decrease EGT's approximately 200-300 degrees F while increasing power 50-100HP.

Power is increased through:

• Air charge cooling - Water/methanol usually lowers air charge temps over 200 degrees F. Low air temps makes denser air charge which provides more molecules of oxygen for combustion.

• Combustion conditioning - the methanol acts as a combustion catalyst as well as a cooling agent. Water vaporization inside the combustion chamber increases torque and power output through "the steam engine" effect.

Where else can you get this kind of power with cooler EGT's, reduced emissions, and more fuel economy?

3. Is this technology new with Turbo Diesel?

Water/methanol injection has been used extensively for years in high performance truck/tractor pullers. With the elevated boost levels required for peak power, water/methanol is a common means of cooling the intake charge and reducing exhaust gas temps. Also, truckers have used water injection for years to increase fuel mileage.

4. What power gains can I expect?

In diesel applications, no additional tuning is needed to maximize the benefits.

• A cooler, denser air charge is now delivered to the combustion chamber – this allows more diesel fuel to be burned than before.

• The methanol in the injection fluid burns as a fuel. This directly impacts power production.

• The water vaporizes in the combustion chamber, creating rapidly expanding steam which pushes down on the piston to create additional torque.

The extra power produced depends heavily on the concentration of methanol used and the volume injected. Typical power gains in 5.9L and larger applications with a 50% mixture of water/methanol are 50-100 WHP and a 100-150ft lb-ft increase in torque.

5. Can the Snow Performance system improve my fuel economy?

Yes. The MPG-MAX™ systems are designed to do just that. Both the diesel and gasoline MPG-MAX™ systems are specifically designed to inject a very small and precise amount of water/methanol under normal driving conditions such as accelerating away from a stop light or driving up a slight grade.

• Diesel MPG-MAX systems benefit from the methanol directly due to the fact that it combusts as a fuel, allowing for brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) to be reduced. Typical gains are 10-15% better fuel economy or 1-3 MPG. In some cases and in independent testing, gains of up to 30% have been observed in diesels.

6. What fluid can I use in my system?

• Boost Juice®: This is the best fluid to use and is Snow Performance’s 49% methanol, 51% water mixture that can be shipped to your door or picked up at a local dealer. (If you are using your washer reservoir as the injection tank, Boost Juice® is a great washer fluid – works as a de-icer!)

• Windshield Washer fluid: Only if it is blue in color and rated for -20 deg F. This means it is safe to use and made of about 30% methanol, 70% water. If it is another color or another temperature rating, do not use it. It should NOT have any extra additives or features.

• You can “spike” your Blue -20 Washer fluid to a 50% mixture by adding 3 12OZ yellow bottles of Heet® gas-line-antifreeze to every gallon of washer fluid.

• Mix your own: You just need to make sure the methanol is “neat” and contains no lubricants or other additives. We recommend a 50% mixture.

• Ethanol: It is not as good as methanol, but it can be used as a 2nd best option if you can’t find methanol. It can also be mixed with water up to 50%.

• Do NOT use E85 or any other fluid with gasoline mixed in. It will destroy the fluid delivery part of your Boost Cooler® and instantly void the warranty.

• Isopropyl/Denatured Alcohols: These can be used, but are not as good as methanol. They have a lower BTU, or energy content, and a lower latent heat of vaporization (fancy way of saying how much heat they absorb) as well as a lower octane rating compared to methanol.

7. Why Methanol?

Methanol is an extremely clean fuel with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these characteristics, it is a better fuel than ethanol or isopropanol although they will work in a pinch. It is extremely toxic and should be handled with rubber gloves in well ventilated areas only. Care should be taken to avoid skin contact.

8. Is Methanol Safe for my Diesel?

Methanol makes an excellent adjunct fuel. Because it has a cetane number of 4CN, it makes safe power without spiking cylinder pressures.

50/50 water/methanol is also very resistant to detonation. It is in fact used as a detonation suppresant in our gasoline systems. This allows for injection without worries about pre-ignition even in very high boost applications such as sled pulling and drag racing.

"combustion of neat methanol alone results in a cetane number of 4CN with reduced PM (smoke) and NOx. " see SAE Technical Paper #940326 "Combustion and Emissions Characteristics of Minimally Processed Methanol in a Diesel Engine"

9. Where can I purchase methanol?

• Snow Performance sells a 51/49 water/methanol mix as Boost Juice™ (see products). If this is used exclusively, Snow Performance can lifetime warranty a system so long as the free registration card is sent in soon after purchase.

• Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heet" are simply methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply methanol for a very reasonable price.

• -20 degree F rated, blue windsheild washer fluid is acceptable for use as well, and is availble at most service stations. Although some fluids rated to under -20 degrees F contain glycol and other copolymers, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% methanol. Try to find one that displays "contains methanol" on the label and is good to -20 degrees F, with no additives or special ingredients and is blue in color.

• Methanol can be purchased on the web at www.worldwideracingfuels.com and www.hiperfuels.com.

• Additionally, many sprint car drivers and circle track and drag racers use methanol as a primary fuel. They often have methanol on hand and will even sell methanol that has been un-sealed for a long time at a very low price. Just be sure that the methanol has NO additives or lubricants (such as top lube), as they are not needed and can damage the pump.

10. Can I use pure methanol?

While all components of Snow Performance systems are designed to be able to handle pure methanol, it is not recommended for a number of reasons.

• Safety: Straight methanol is easy to ignite and burns with an almost invisible flame.

• Performance: Water absorbs twice as much heat as methanol in the intake and inside the combustion chamber. Water cannot be flash-ignited, so has almost an infinite octane number. In the government studies for WWII piston-powered aircraft, 50/50 water-methanol was found to be the best fluid to use for auxiliary fluid injection.

• Tuning and Engine reliability: Injecting 50/50 water-methanol will prevent over-injection. If too much is injected, it will quench the flame front and the engine will bog and lose power. If too much straight methanol is injected, this will not happen, as methanol is very forgiving of rich mixtures. This could instead lead to explosive backfires, cylinder wash, etc. which will not happen when 50% or more water is in the mixture.

11. How much range will a tank of Water/Methanol provide?

Diesels use more fluid than a gasoline application, and are in heavier load states more often.

• On a Stage 1 or 2 system, the factory washer fluid tank on a pickup truck (usually 1-1.5 gallons) will last a tank of fuel. This is for normal mixed driving with no towing and some aggressive acceleration.

• On a Stage 3 MPG MAX™ used for towing, the 7 gallon reservoir (included with the MPG MAX™) usually lasts 1-2 tanks of diesel fuel. In an un-loaded state, the 7 gallon reservoir will provide about 1000 miles of range. When towing, the 7 gallon usually lasts about 500 miles.

• A standard Stage 3 system will use about 1 gallon of liquid for every 75 miles of towing. Many Stage 3 users take advantage of their stock washer tank or the special universal fitting included in Stage 3 Snow Performance diesel kits with a custom large capacity tank. Be sure to use a solenoid upgrade for any reservoir mounted in the rear of the vehicle.”

So they say 3.5 gal of methane will last about 500 miles (towing) will keep the EGTs down and provide about 1-3 MPG increase for a cost of about $23.66 and unknown shipping costs in Methane. That’s right around $.05 per mile or around $.66 per gal of fuel used based on 14 mpg towing.

Questions I have.

First what are your (if any) experiences with either Propane or Water/Methane injection.

Is it cost effective?

Has anyone used both at the same time to both add power and keep cooler EGTs?

Is either one practical for everyday use with the added hassle of monitoring the reservoir tanks?

Jim

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44 m.p.g.'s on a dually??:wow::wow:that is sweet!

--- Update to the previous post...

sooooo..who has the best(quality) kit out there? bully dog?ats?

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44 m.p.g.'s on a dually??:wow::wow:that is sweet!

--- Update to the previous post...

sooooo..who has the best(quality) kit out there? bully dog?ats?

Before asking who has the best kit, I want to hear from the forum members (if any) that have experience with propane or W/M injection before I start believing the advertising hype and one off tests.

I also want to do a lot more research on the subjects.

I have to ask, if the propane injection gives those results consistently and is SAFE for the truck, driver, and engine, why haven't long haul trucking companies jumped all over it for the big rigs?

The propane is metered into the turbo inlet and I suspect in quantities that create an explosive mixture even without the diesel fuel. Just wondering if that creates a potential hazard in the intercooler like using starter fluid does.

I did read that Methane even when mixed needs to be handled with caution (read protective gloves, clothing, and eye protection) because it is bad stuff for you to be exposed to.

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When I was CF asking about it long ago, they told me I had to have head studs because of the added pressure. Is this true? I am starting to think it is a bunch of crap. I do know one guy around here with a 4BT in an f150 that uses water injection and he said it has a huge effect on it.

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When I was CF asking about it long ago, they told me I had to have head studs because of the added pressure. Is this true? I am starting to think it is a bunch of crap. I do know one guy around here with a 4BT in an f150 that uses water injection and he said it has a huge effect on it.

What kind of effect? More/less power? Better/worse fuel mileage? Cooler/hotter EGTs? Lower/higher cost of operation? Rusted exhaust from the water vapor?

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Before asking who has the best kit, I want to hear from the forum members (if any) that have experience with propane or W/M injection before I start believing the advertising hype and one off tests.

I also want to do a lot more research on the subjects.

I have to ask, if the propane injection gives those results consistently and is SAFE for the truck, driver, and engine, why haven't long haul trucking companies jumped all over it for the big rigs?

The propane is metered into the turbo inlet and I suspect in quantities that create an explosive mixture even without the diesel fuel. Just wondering if that creates a potential hazard in the intercooler like using starter fluid does.

I did read that Methane even when mixed needs to be handled with caution (read protective gloves, clothing, and eye protection) because it is bad stuff for you to be exposed to.

Like myself since propane is a common fuel out here in Idaho I've been looking at this for a long time but for the exact reason you mention is the flamable mixture in the intercooler and turbo is what bugs me. Also the math of with and without propane seem a bit skewed but typical. Now like the tidbit article you post mention a 30 gallon propane tank? :stuned:

So much propane do you need really? How much propane do you consume over a tank a fuel?

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What kind of effect? More/less power? Better/worse fuel mileage? Cooler/hotter EGTs? Lower/higher cost of operation? Rusted exhaust from the water vapor?

He used it for EGT's and would drop them wayyy down. It was preturbo on his using a high pressure tip thing so that it would vaporize it and the turbo would suck it in and mix it up some more. Worked good from what he says. I know he is an engineer and has invented a lot of setups for oil burners (the heating furnace). He said when the truck started black smoking he would flip the switch and it would clear up instantly and take off. After getting back from nashville with a 30ft trailer with a truck on it and everything, it was rare for me to get over 900. I even had the cruise set at 70 and there were some really long hills that were about 3-4% grade, I would hit about 880 near the top. I got to some 5-6% hills and was hitting about 940 by the top. That was probably 6000lbs trailer/load. So I don't exactly have any EGT issues but if I passed someone it would get up there, that is why I think the water would be great. Putting my wastegate fooler on there helped a lot. I can be at 25psi and the wastegate is completely shut. Stock if I were at 25psi, I would have to be stepping on it more since I was also having to outflow the wastegate (no boost elbow). My new digital EGT gauge thinger has a relay on it that can turn on at any temp and I want to take advantage of it with water injection, making it turn on at 1050.

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My new digital EGT gauge thinger has a relay on it that can turn on at any temp and I want to take advantage of it with water injection, making it turn on at 1050.

That would for sure make the water/methanol last much longer...

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Like myself since propane is a common fuel out here in Idaho I've been looking at this for a long time but for the exact reason you mention is the flamable mixture in the intercooler and turbo is what bugs me. Also the math of with and without propane seem a bit skewed but typical. Now like the tidbit article you post mention a 30 gallon propane tank? :stuned:

So much propane do you need really?

I don't know how much propane is needed, it kind of sounds like that depends on the results you want from it.

How much propane do you consume over a tank a fuel?

From the article in my original post.

“With a diesel propane injection system burning propane at approximately a 1:4 ratio to diesel fuel (1 gallon propane per 4 gallons diesel) the increase in exhaust gas temperatures will be minimal and the fuel economy gains will typically pay for the cost of the propane.”

At this ratio a 30 lb propane tank would last about 120 gal of diesel fuel.

“With the propane injection on and set to initiate at five pounds of boost and give 50 percent of the systems capacity, our mileage increased to an amazing 44 mpg (factoring the diesel fuel used only)! Over a 100-mile test, we used 6 pounds of propane from our 30-pound tank, which cost $18 to fill at the local propane supplier, so the propane used for the test cost $3.60. Diesel fuel for the 100 miles was 2.27 gallons at $3 per gallon for a total of $6.82 in diesel fuel. Added together we get a total of $10.42 for the 100-mile test using propane.”

Propane weighs approximately 4.2 (+/- 0.1) pounds. So they used about 1.43 gal of propane to go 100 miles. They also used 2.27 gal of diesel for the 100 miles.

At that ratio they would have used 18.9 gal of propane (or 79.38 pounds or about 2 ½ 30 lb tanks) for 30 gal of diesel. :omg::spend: One would have to stop 3 times to fill the propane tank for each tank of fuel at this ratio. On the up side in an unloaded truck you would be getting about 1,320 highway miles from a 30 gal tank of diesel.:hyper::thumbup2:

Hey, that's what the math extrapolations say, we all know that the real world is a little different.:shrug:

As an observation when reading the article, they say that the truck without propane got 24mpg (a one ton dually) we don't know if it was a standard trans or auto (I'm guessing std). I will bet they were using the overhead readout for their mileage claims, which would throw off the entire test results.

Another thought. according to my SGII my truck (also a 1 ton dually) with an auto consumes 1.38 gph idling in neutral or park. Using 1.38 GPH at 60 mph equates to 43.48 mpg. If I run the truck rpm up in park or neutral the fuel consumption goes up as the rpm increases. So not quite calling their claims lies but find it really hard to believe they use less fuel (44 mpg) at 60 mph (even with propane) than I do at idle stopped in park.

Jim

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He used it for EGT's and would drop them wayyy down.

I just bought a snows 2nd hand - $220. Here's my thoughts. I pinged Mike on it - but I was confused with his response - just cause it was too technical for me - hahah :lmao2:

I am looking at it for towing mainly (but will run it daily). Currently on small inclines running @60mph in OD on Level 2 edge as I start to push fuel my EGT's hit 1100 and my PSI hits 19-21. My thoughts are I can run water (free) for EGT reduction ~200 ......... then I can run same hills in level 4. I am hoping the advanced timing, lower EGT and possible reduced boost - basically less engine load - will net me at least +1mpg towing. On a trip to alaska and back alone (next year) it will then pay for itself. If I could hit 2mpg - then I'm making money. (What I mean here is I think if I see any mpg increase it won't be because of my SNOW injection - it will just be because it allows me to run edge higher).

I will also play with methanol mixes for extra HP - just for giggles.

Anyway - will obviously need some help hooking it up ....... but happy to be a guinea pig for recording some results for MWI. Thinking I will do 100 mile round trip through the mountains with no MWI. Record. Then do same trip with MWI set to inject over ~15 PSI or something (hills).

Either way subscribed. Interested also on otehr results - guys I spoke with on CF LOVED it. I didn't get any hard numbers on MPG tho - so like you jim - more keen to see my own numbers. Propane - hadn't even heard about it until you/mike talked about it the other day - thats interesting stuff, the figures off that wiki - wow.

john

--- Update to the previous post...

1998 CTD

http://www.snowperformance.net/dyno_chart_view.php?type=diesel&dck=11

2002 CTD

http://www.snowperformance.net/dyno_chart_view.php?type=diesel&dck=10

2004 CTD

http://www.snowperformance.net/dyno_chart_view.php?type=diesel&dck=4

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Ya, I saw the charts on the snow performance site. I have to take dyno charts/graphs with a grain of salt because they are never 100% repeatable. I've also observed that the dyno numbers do not give a true representation of the real world towing performance where the power is sustained for longer periods of time. They also do not tell you (generally) what else is going on with the truck that may negate the represented power being used for any length of time.It's interesting though.Jim

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lmao - just checked into 5 GALLON ethanol - $29 . But $80 shipped (pat due to HAZ MAT $25 fee). NiceEven on 20% use ...... thats 25 gallons for $80 or $3.20 per gallon. Think I will be running straight water unless I want some HP. :)Yeah agree on dyno - just thought I'd post ......... too much variation and every truck/setup is diff.

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lmao - just checked into 5 GALLON ethanol - $29 . But $80 shipped (pat due to HAZ MAT $25 fee). Nice

Even on 20% use ...... thats 25 gallons for $80 or $3.20 per gallon. Think I will be running straight water unless I want some HP. :)

Yeah agree on dyno - just thought I'd post ......... too much variation and every truck/setup is diff.

John, You might want to check into this from my OP.

"Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heet" are simply methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply methanol for a very reasonable price."

You might find a local drag strip and talk to the people and drivers there. They probably buy theirs in 55 gal drums and lots of 10 drums or so at a time. you might be able to buy 5 gal or so at a time from one of them.

Or find an industrial chemical outlet near you.

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John, You might want to check into this from my OP.

"Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heet" are simply methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply methanol for a very reasonable price."

You might find a local drag strip and talk to the people and drivers there. They probably buy theirs in 55 gal drums and lots of 10 drums or so at a time. you might be able to buy 5 gal or so at a time from one of them.

Or find an industrial chemical outlet near you.

Yeah a couple guys here are hooked up with the nascar/drag scene - will find out ....... I think for convenience will run water mostly , then a bit of walmart for ease to get ....... but definately wanna run a few tanks on 50/50 to see :)

--- Update to the previous post...

1 quick side question - whats the drive/terrain like from Seattle through to anchorage ........ each way ??

curious

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Yeah a couple guys here are hooked up with the nascar/drag scene - will find out ....... I think for convenience will run water mostly , then a bit of walmart for ease to get ....... but definately wanna run a few tanks on 50/50 to see :)

--- Update to the previous post...

1 quick side question - whats the drive/terrain like from Seattle through to anchorage ........ each way ??

curious

John, that's the Cassiar Highway, runs from Seattle to just west of Watson lake in the Yukon territory. I've never driven that one. I've always gone the ALCAN through watson lake, FT Nelson, FT StJohn, Edmonton, Calgary and Lethebridge because I go to Montana or further east.

I've heard it is long distances between fuel stops though. However from Watson lake to anchorage it's a piece of cake. There is only a little over 100 miles of road that is slow (35 to 40 mph) between Destruction bay on lake kluane to the Alaska border at Beaver creek. Seems the Canadians cant keepup with melting perma frost damage and soil shifting to the road. It's quite bad.

Jim

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I have been using propane for the past 8 months. I have mine set for about 3 tanks of fuel to 1 tank of propane. My propane tank is 12 gallons. The kit that I used is from Ebay, and cost about $300, with a total cost of $500 for everything. I did the install myself. The setup depends on what you want it for, power or mileage. I have found that if diesel is below $3.00 a gallon it is not worth using everyday, only for towing. Also, if propane is about about $2.50 per gallon it is not worth it either. Due to the use of 2 different fuels. With propane you have to worry about predetonation. This will blow head gaskets with the increased pressures. The propane also advances the timing of the engine, so if you are using a timing box, you need to be very careful.

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I have been using propane for the past 8 months. I have mine set for about 3 tanks of fuel to 1 tank of propane. My propane tank is 12 gallons. The kit that I used is from Ebay, and cost about $300, with a total cost of $500 for everything. I did the install myself. The setup depends on what you want it for, power or mileage. I have found that if diesel is below $3.00 a gallon it is not worth using everyday, only for towing. Also, if propane is about about $2.50 per gallon it is not worth it either. Due to the use of 2 different fuels. With propane you have to worry about predetonation. This will blow head gaskets with the increased pressures. The propane also advances the timing of the engine, so if you are using a timing box, you need to be very careful.

Thank you, that's very useful and enlightening information, exactly what I am looking to find out.

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If you have more questions, I will be glad to answer them. With my system, I roughly calculated that I have to use it for about 10,000 miles before it starts to pay for itself. The propane also increased my mileage from 14.5 to anywhere between 21 to 24 mpg with use. I have mine set for mileage. It comes on at about 2 lbs of boost and starts increasing power/mileage from there. I did a 1000 mile trip when I first put in the system and I got about 28 mpg going and about 20 mpg coming back with a flat faced 12 ft trailer. I went from Colorado to Kansas and back. The cost per mile was about 16.9 cents, and this includes the cost of both fuels. I also have some extra safety built into my system, for my peace of mind. I have an extra fuel cutoff solenoid mounted solidly at the tank, that will shut the fuel off if the tank becomes separated from the truck.

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If you have more questions, I will be glad to answer them.

What does your fuel mileage go up to with the propane supplement?

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Currently, it went up about 5-6 mpg. I went from 14.5 to 20-21 mpg. Now, I get this mileage at 78 mph, with the cruise set. If I use my right foot, the mileage gets worse. I have done the same route several times and the mileage stays about the same.

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So if diesel is $3/gal and I use 14.5 and 21mpg, that is going from $0.21/mile to $0.14/mile. Over 1000 miles that is a difference of $64. 3 tanks at 21mpg would get you 2205 miles and save you $141 over the 14.5mpg tanks. The propane costs $30 to fill up at $2.50/gal.I think it is worth it :thumbup2:

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To me, it is totally worth it. I was filling up with diesel evey week and now I am filling up about every 3 weeks, and filling up with propane about every 6-8 weeks, depending on usage. I have towed heavy with mine and it helped alot. I towed about 13,000 lbs about 200 miles and got 15 mpg at 60 mph. I did this on 2 different occasions. After doing this, I had to fill the propane tank up, and refueled the truck 2 times. The more boost, the more propane you use, and yet, the more power you make.

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What happens when you turn the truck off? I assume it just closes a solenoid valve. Any other things it does to prevent leak down?

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To me, it is totally worth it. I was filling up with diesel evey week and now I am filling up about every 3 weeks, and filling up with propane about every 6-8 weeks, depending on usage. I have towed heavy with mine and it helped alot. I towed about 13,000 lbs about 200 miles and got 15 mpg at 60 mph. I did this on 2 different occasions. After doing this, I had to fill the propane tank up, and refueled the truck 2 times. The more boost, the more propane you use, and yet, the more power you make.

wow...mopar gets...23 to 24mpg's..just think what he would get with some propane?wow

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