2007 2500 5.9L Won't start - need some input before I buy a new CP3 injector pump

[blugrasmaniac]

I have a 2007 2500 5.9L that currently will not start. If anyone has time to provide some input that would be great!

I have done a lot a reading and basic troubleshooting over the past couple of days, and here's what I know:

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[*]Trucked cranked few weeks ago and sputtered for about 3-5 seconds right after cranking. This cleared up on its own after that 3-5 second period, and I did not have any issues while driving it that day or the next.

[*]When I got back to the house, I parked the truck in my yard facing un an incline of maybe 6-8 degrees with ~ 1/4 tank fuel.

[*]It sat parked there for about two weeks before I cranked it again.

[*]After those two weeks, I went out to drive it, and it fired right up. I put it in gear pretty much immediately, and it sputtered out and quickly died.

[*]Hasn't fired fire a lick since then. I did first try adding five gallons of diesel hoping for an easy fix, but that didn't do anything.

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Here are the symptoms and facts from troubleshooting so far:

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[*]No fuel exiting the CP3 outlet (exception is that once in a while, after not cranking, it will spurt out a small amount right when the engine first starts turning over, and that's it)

[*][EDIT: referring to COV here] Removed the pressure regulator and lots of fuel comes out during cranking

[*]Disconnect the return line and fuel comes out during cranking

[*]Disconnect the feed line, and plenty of fuel pumping into it from the lift pump.

[*]Fuel Control Actuator is open (I can blow/see light through it) when disconnected, and it seems to be working fine. I held it in my hand when key is turned and and for brief cranking cycle - it vibrates enthusiastically, so I assume it's working.

[*][EDIT: I also tried cranking it with the FCA unplugged, but still nothing comes out of the CP3 pump]

[*]I get 8-9 psi during cranking on the fuel line between the filter and the injection pump.

[*]No obd codes (actually I did get a code when I disconnected the FCA, but that went away when I plugged it back in later)

[*]I am still running the SW3 program on the Smart Jr. I keep thinking (and forgetting) to restore the stock program just to see if that makes a difference, but I can't see how it would given the list of symptoms as they currently exist.

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At this point, I'm figuring it pretty much has to be the CP3 pump. I don't really understand how it would fail so suddenly and while not in use, but that seems to be the case.

I plan to take the injection pump off next and inspect it to see if there's anything obvious wrong with the gear before I purchase a new one.

I'd really appreciate any input. If you feel it is the CP3, then I could also use some advice on whether it makes sense to replace it with a higher performance pump that would potentially allow for more power in the future.

[Rogan]

Hi, and welcome to the site. I (unfortunately) know nothing of the CP3, but I did want to ensure you that your questions arent going unheard. I know some on the p7100 and VP44, but I'm brain-dead on the CP3 :whistle:Someone will answer soon

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm hoping either AH64ID or Wild and Free to show up... They are good with CR Engines...As for my shot in the dark there is something wrong if the CP3 isn't building pressure. So if the FCA is unplugged you can see through it right? Did you try starting/cranking with the FCA unplugged?

[AH64ID]

Aside from your fuel, or lack thereof, this issue is usually injectors. I would try cranking with the FCA unplugged, there are several other replaceable parts in the CP3 that it could be. How many miles on the truck? A full blown CP3 failure is rare, it's usually one of 3 parts that are easily changed. A CP3 generally just wears out and isn't as efficient. http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=4932457 http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=F-00N-200-798 If you are going to throw parts at it you may try a bag of parts from II or Arson, it replaces the FCA and COV with higher flowing parts. It's a little more money, but at least it's an upgrade and a repair, not just a repair. The BOP kit's include pretty much anything that will fail instantly in a CP3.

[AABEAR]

Have you check to see cods it is showing??

[blugrasmaniac]

I'm hoping either AH64ID or Wild and Free to show up... They are good with CR Engines...

As for my shot in the dark there is something wrong if the CP3 isn't building pressure. So if the FCA is unplugged you can see through it right? Did you try starting/cranking with the FCA unplugged?

Yes, I did try cranking it with the FCA unplugged. Same thing - no fuel leaving the CP3

--- Update to the previous post...

....I would try cranking with the FCA unplugged, there are several other replaceable parts in the CP3 that it could be.....

I did try to crank it with the FCA unplugged (forgot to list that originally), but still no fuel exiting the CP3

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How many miles on the truck? A full blown CP3 failure is rare, it's usually one of 3 parts that are easily changed. A CP3 generally just wears out and isn't as efficient.....

Truck has 78,000 miles. I'm definitely not interested in just throwing parts at it.

You mentioned the COV could be bad. Could this result in no fuel leaving the CP3 outlet even with FCA unplugged?

--- Update to the previous post...

Have you check to see cods it is showing??

I checked the codes several times throughout the testing, and no codes were showing on the dashboard except for when I had the FCA unplugged.

[AH64ID]

OPERATIONThe fuel injection pump supplies high pressure to the fuel rail independent of engine speed. This high pressure isthen accumulated in the fuel rail. High pressure fuel is constantly supplied to the injectors by the fuel rail. TheEngine Control Module (ECM) controls the fueling and timing of the engine by actuating the injectors.Fuel enters the system from the electric fuel transfer (lift) pump, which is located in the fuel tank. Fuel is forcedthrough the fuel filter element and then enters the Fuel Pump/Gear Pump, which is attached to the rear of the fuelinjection pump. The Fuel Pump/Gear Pump is a low-pressure pump and produce pressures ranging from 551.5 kpa(80 psi) to 1241 kpa (180) psi. Fuel then enters the fuel injection pump. Low pressure fuel is then supplied to theFCA (Fuel Control Actuator).The FCA is an electronically controlled solenoid valve. The ECM controls the amount of fuel that enters the highpressurepumping chambers by opening and closing the FCA based on a demanded fuel pressure. The FPS (FuelPressure Sensor) on the fuel rail provides the actual fuel pressure. When the actuator is opened, the maximumamount of fuel is being supplied to the fuel injection pump. Any fuel that does not enter the injection pump isdirected to the cascade overflow valve. The cascade overflow valve regulates how much excess fuel is used forlubrication of the pump and how much is returned to the tank through the drain manifold.Fuel entering the injection pump is pressurized to between 300-1600 bar (4351-23206 psi) by three radial pumpingchambers. The pressurized fuel is then supplied to the fuel rail.

[blugrasmaniac]

OPERATION [Excerpt] ... Any fuel that does not enter the injection pump is directed to the cascade overflow valve. The cascade overflow valve regulates how much excess fuel is used for lubrication of the pump and how much is returned to the tank through the drain manifold...

Thanks, I see how the COV could cause fuel to return instead of going to the high-pressure pump. In this case, though, the COV seems to be operating OK, at least from a go/no-go stand point, which is where I currently am with no fuel making it all the way though the CP3. Of course I can't accurately test it, but the spring seems appropriately stiff, and the valve sleeve slides smoothly. Also, there is some, but minimal fuel coming out of the CP3 return line. I took the return line completely loose, and a little fuel does come out of the CP3 during cranking, but it's only a trickle that runs down the side of the pump. With all that said, do you still think it could be the COV? I'm definitely the novice here

[AH64ID]

I am not sure enough of the operation to be sure.

It seems like you don't need the truck everyday, so it may be easier to pull it and ship it to somewhere like DDP or another Bosch repair center.

--- Update to the previous post...

You may also want to try calling Todd at T&C Diesel, he is very knowledgeable on the CP3, but I would take anything he says about filtration, flow, and physics with a large grain of salt as it's usually not true.

[blugrasmaniac]

I talked to Todd....He said the fact that the pump suddenly won't put out any fuel is reasonable, due to what he thinks is probably a broken shaft key.He also said that basic operation of the pump could be tested by closing off the supply line, removing the COV and cranking a few turns. Assuming the pump is full of fuel, if no fuel pumps out of the COV hole, it's not operating. Be certain that fuel is not being supplied to the CP3, though, because that will all dump out the COV, too.

[AH64ID]

Good info!I wouldn't have even thought of that!

[AH64ID]

You get it up and running?

[blugrasmaniac]

For various reasons, it took a while to connect with T&C Diesel and get a pump to my house, but I installed it on Tuesday, and that was indeed the problem.

By the way, Todd has a great price on his standard rebuilds, which are 20% over stock.

Cranked right up after two or three 5-second crank cycles. But I still have a couple of issues. I was out of town yesterday and didn't get to work on it, but I plan to this afternoon, and I'll update once I get it worked out.

While I was "troubleshooting" I nicked the seat face of the high-pressure line that supplies the common rail. I figured it might leak, and it does. It didn't leak at first, but I took it for a short road test and could tell it didn't have quite the power it did before. Another look under the hood, and it was definitely leaking now. Hopefully more diligent torquing will fix it. If not....hmm...I'm not sure. I may need to try to find one. I saw a used one on Ebay a while back, but didn't want to spend the $30 in case mine was ok, lol.

The other problem is even though I used the new FCA that came with the pump, I'm now getting a P0251 code. I'm going to try plugging the old one back in and see if it goes away, and I guess take it from there.

--- Update to the previous post...

Torqued the connection that had the nick (pretty much as hard as I could), and I can't detect any leaks now. And the P0251 code is gone.

I like my tires, so I didn't stress it too much, but it seems to have just as much power as it did before.

I intend to install a rail pressure gauge and I'll have a better reading, but for now, I'll keep a check on the connection. If I see any leaks developing, I'll just have to buy a new line.

Thanks for the support I'm glad to get it back on the road!

[AH64ID]

Great. An Ultra Gauge is a great way to go for a rail pressure gauge, as long as your not running a pressure fooler.