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hex0rz

Injectors

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So, I decided I would give my injectors a little looky-loo. A few days ago, I did this. After fumbling around trying to figure out what wrench size the injector lines were, I got a wrench on them while the truck was running and all of them responded to them being cracked open. I was not able to get to cyl. #2 and #6. Is there a way to get to these injectors?Also, it seemed like it took a good amount of force to crack them open. I have never heard of a torquing device that would use an open-ended application like a wrench. How do I know if I tightened them enough or not enough?I have been avg. about 16mpg now after my BHAF install. I'm curious to see how my injectors are doing as I have not serviced them, and I have no clue if the previous owners have done any at all. I'm curious to see how they are spraying, but I figured I would atleast see if they were functioning properly.Is there any injector bench-testers out there I can buy? I have a link to building one, but I dunno if I can find a steel line and fitting for the injector to do it with...

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the best way to do it is to follow my injector install video, then grab mikes how to clean an injector article.You need a inchlbs wrench with a crow's foot attached to it. But if your mechanical its as simple as going a little past snug. its only 28 ftlbs on those crossover lines.Cleaning your injectors is not hard at all, and is very easy, do them one at a time. I have done it as well.Conversely, strap 20,000lbs behind your truck and run around with it for a few hours and you achieve the same thing.:thumbup2:

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Where is this video you speak of? I'll followup on mikes article. Haha, I'm sure the wife is gonna love me asking to buy more tools.

Whats haulin 20k gonna do?

Its not just about cleaning them though. Its about testing them. Whether the spray pattern is right and whether it does not leak and pops at the right pressure.

--- Update to the previous post...

Okay, so I looked in the article section. I found your video pepsi. I also looked at Mikes articles. It sounds like a pretty easy job.

Upon further deliberation, it sounds like I will need a way to keep the tube and injector together to get a bench test to function. Is there someone out there that has already made a machined "jig" for the injectors to be bench tested?

Sounds like all I'm gonna have to buy is a 3/4" crowfoot and an inch pound torque wrench to do this job.

Also, I'm not upgrading my injectors. I'm just servicing the OEM. Is there a kit the auto parts stores carry so I can replace the copper washers and o-rings? Or do I just have to source them myself?

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unless your replacing them , most of the time you don't have to get new copper washers, unless you mix the washers up, each washer is crushed to the proper height so if you put the injectors back as they were you are fine. basically, you take them apart one at a time.O rings should be replaced regardless(just the ones on the crossover tubes, they can be had from Cummins for about 1.25 a piece.The injector O rings are fine, just put some oil back on them before you slide them in.As for checking spray pattern and such just take some brake cleaner and spray the cleaner through the nozzle from the injector side, it will come out in the spray pattern of the injector. mike has a video somewhere about that.Hooking up a 20,000lbs trailer will put a good load on the motor and literally do the cleaning work for you, as cylinder temps will remain high enough to burn off the tar and coke that will be on the injectors/pistons/valves.

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Is there any injector bench-testers out there I can buy? I have a link to building one, but I dunno if I can find a steel line and fitting for the injector to do it with...

AP, If you ship your injectors over to me (near Seattle) I'd be happy to bench test them for you and send them back. I have a couple of pop testers and all the appropriate fittings. However, if your injectors have more than 75,000 miles on them, then I can almost guaranty you it's a waste of time as the nozzles will be leaking (pissing) prior to popping off and they'll be opening at a lower pressure than spec. Low pop pressure can be adjusted by changing shim thickness under the spring inside the injector, but leaks prior to popping can't be corrected... at least that's been my experience. The only real solution for a leaky nozzle is to replace it with a new one... or buy an entirely new new injector of course. Best regards, John L. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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AP,

If you ship your injectors over to me (near Seattle) I'd be happy to bench test them for you and send them back. I have a couple of pop testers and all the appropriate fittings.

However, if your injectors have more than 75,000 miles on them, then I can almost guaranty you it's a waste of time as the nozzles will be leaking (pissing) prior to popping off and they'll be opening at a lower pressure than spec.

Low pop pressure can be adjusted by changing shim thickness under the spring inside the injector, but leaks prior to popping can't be corrected... at least that's been my experience. The only real solution for a leaky nozzle is to replace it with a new one... or buy an entirely new new injector of course.

Best regards,

John L.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Huh? typically you can get 250,000 out of a set of injectors? unless im reading something wrong.:shrug:

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Huh? typically you can get 250,000 out of a set of injectors? unless im reading something wrong.

You're correct. However, somewhere between 75,000 to 100,000 miles they won't meet factory pop pressure specs anymore and the nozzles will leak. Assuming nothing else major goes wrong, this gradual deterioration doesn't seem to matter much. They're tough injectors! Regards, John L. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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I have no idea how many miles are on these injectors. But they are prolly OEM as the truck has just under 200k. How much would you charge to bench-test them?I have been debating to just get my gunsmith to machine me out a piece of iron or aluminum that will mimic the head so I can bench-test the injector. I need the hardline though. But thats not of a big deal as getting the block milled out...

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How much would you charge to bench-test them?

Not a thing if you'll cover the shipping. The important question is what will you do when you find out the pop pressures are all low and the nozzles leak prior to popping off? I guess the point I'm trying to stress is that you're probably wasting your time and money just having them tested... unless you're morbidly curious about how bad they really are. :) If they have 200k miles on them, at a minimum you'll need new nozzles if not the entire injector. Anyway, let me know if you want to send them over for testing and I'll PM you my address. Best regards, John L. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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if you have 200K on them, ide just send them to DAP and get some 40 or 60HP injectors and then enjoy new injectors, and better mpg and Hp as well.problem solved.:thumbup2:

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i can validate leaking injectors, on one day normal driving my pyro will read around 800 doing 55. another day same route same conditions doing 55 it will read 500 ish.my injectors have good days and bad days. and the more i drive without cleaning the more bad days i seem to see. Im trying to source rv275's but no luck so far.

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i can validate leaking injectors, on one day normal driving my pyro will read around 800 doing 55. another day same route same conditions doing 55 it will read 500 ish. my injectors have good days and bad days. and the more i drive without cleaning the more bad days i seem to see. Im trying to source rv275's but no luck so far.

my truck has done the same thing even though i changed out injectors. In the end im 100% its my VP-44's going out, it cannot achieve timing on its own, and so i have found if your running 800F, to slowly back the pedal off a little bit and you will find your temps fall, but the speed won't. i know its not injectors because my truck does the same thing, just that im sure brand new DAP injectors wouldn't do that right out of the box from mile one of install.

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Maybe I shouldn't talk... :rolleyes:CajFlynn gave me his old RV275 with over 450K miles on them had them pop tested in Lewiston, ID and they passed. The misfire issue I had was cause from dirt/debris in the pintle area. So far haven't had any problems... :shrug:Make me wonder If I'm borrowed time... :ahhh:

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Make me wonder If I'm borrowed time... :ahhh:

Did you, at least, get a good interest rate? :tongue:

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Okay, by the sounds of it I should just do new injectors... I was looking: http://www.dieselautopower.com/category_s/448.htm Which injector do I go with? The one that has pictures? It also give a selection on what size injector. It has one for new injectors plus upgrade, but it says it ranges from 35-50hp. Or do I just choose something else? Looks like the 50hp upgrade is no charge? So how long will injectors last? Also, I kinda was leaning towards injectors as it seems like oil is always coming out of the breather. Even though I have done tons of up and down various grade driving. I checked the dipstick and its right at the full line. So I did not know if its just a fluke or if the injectors are leaking and washing out my oil... The wife is gonna love hearing me beg her on my hands and knees for the injectors. :lmao::pray:

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Okay, by the sounds of it I should just do new injectors... I was looking: http://www.dieselautopower.com/category_s/448.htm Which injector do I go with? The one that has pictures? It also give a selection on what size injector. It has one for new injectors plus upgrade, but it says it ranges from 35-50hp. Or do I just choose something else? Looks like the 50hp upgrade is no charge? So how long will injectors last? Also, I kinda was leaning towards injectors as it seems like oil is always coming out of the breather. Even though I have done tons of up and down various grade driving. I checked the dipstick and its right at the full line. So I did not know if its just a fluke or if the injectors are leaking and washing out my oil... The wife is gonna love hearing me beg her on my hands and knees for the injectors. :lmao::pray:

the ones with the pictures, those are the ones i have. IMo for a truck like yours a nice set of 60's or 75's will really wake it up. I would actually say no more then 75Hp, and no less then 60's, anything less is a waste of money,a nd anything more might require you to bump turbos dow the road if you got a programmer. injectors will last 250,000 miles before having to be re shimmed, IMO for what your spending its best to just grab some new ones. Having a built auto means adding larger injectors will be more of a benefit, because you will be able to use that added HP. With my 60's (and stuff in sig), i gained a good 2mpg when i did the injector swap. so 60's will net you the best fuel economy IMO.

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I sold my edge comp box fpr $300. Its was made back in 2001 I think. But almost right after I sold it, I read up here about it would help with the MPG's. I was not very happy to hear that. Although, it looks like the newer programmers are about that, retail.

I may try and get an edge programmer that has the monitoring and stuff. Won't have to cluster up my dash with gauges and stuff.

Are these injectors you speak of new? They will last me about 1/4 mil. miles?

I'm trying to sell a couple of my firearms right now, so hopefully I can come up with some more dough. As I think extra on top of this is not gonna make any brownie points with me and the wife. :whistle:

--- Update to the previous post...

So, I have been looking around. These DAP injectors, are they better than these Rv275's everyone is talking about? I don't want to regret forking the money over, when I could have dished a little more for some better ones...

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I sold my edge comp box fpr $300. Its was made back in 2001 I think. But almost right after I sold it, I read up here about it would help with the MPG's. I was not very happy to hear that. Although, it looks like the newer programmers are about that, retail.

I may try and get an edge programmer that has the monitoring and stuff. Won't have to cluster up my dash with gauges and stuff.

Are these injectors you speak of new? They will last me about 1/4 mil. miles?

I'm trying to sell a couple of my firearms right now, so hopefully I can come up with some more dough. As I think extra on top of this is not gonna make any brownie points with me and the wife. :whistle:

--- Update to the previous post...

So, I have been looking around. These DAP injectors, are they better than these Rv275's everyone is talking about? I don't want to regret forking the money over, when I could have dished a little more for some better ones...

when it comes to mpg, smarty, edge, quad, etic everyone has their opinoins.

i do believe you can see the new DAP injectors before i install them, in the injector video, but i do think so, they could be remanned and rebuilt etic.

i have over 15,000 in my DAP's and don't have any issues at all. i don't see why they wouldn't last 250k...But ask Jacob im sure he can tell you.

What kind of firearms are you selling?

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No, I think it was the MPG fooler thread that I was reading that moparman and others were mentioning that the edge box helped with mileage on top of the fooler. Had to do with the increase in timing... I'm trying to sell a pistol and rifle. I have an FNAR .308 semi-auto, and a FN 5.7x28. We got a gun show going on right now this weekend, so I'm hoping to sell it or trade it. But, I would entertain offers through the net. http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-guns-fn-items-sale/26041-fn-5-7x28-pistol-usg.html http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-guns-fn-items-sale/26040-fnar-308-a.html Hopefully, that won't get me in trouble... :nono:

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No, I think it was the MPG fooler thread that I was reading that moparman and others were mentioning that the edge box helped with mileage on top of the fooler. Had to do with the increase in timing... I'm trying to sell a pistol and rifle. I have an FNAR .308 semi-auto, and a FN 5.7x28. We got a gun show going on right now this weekend, so I'm hoping to sell it or trade it. But, I would entertain offers through the net. http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-guns-fn-items-sale/26041-fn-5-7x28-pistol-usg.html http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-guns-fn-items-sale/26040-fnar-308-a.html Hopefully, that won't get me in trouble... :nono:

i think you missed what i said, everyone has their opinions, (while my smarty is acting up now) i will say that the smarty is a useful tool to have, and i have seen a good 2 mpg increase with it when i put it on fuel economy mode. just understand that you can't really tow more then 4,000lbs or so with it on that mode. the edge and quads don;'t have a separate mpg mode yet but they work differently. All in all my best tank was set (before i lost the Vp-44) was 21mpg, with stuff in sig minus injector's. Even with a deal Vp-44 my truck gained a good 2mpg with those 60hp injectors, so im curious to see what my mpg goes up to once i get the new Vp-44 in.

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I assumed you meant that each manufacturer has their own opinions on their products and their performance. The best mileage I have seen from my truck is 18mpg. That was right after the my transmission job. Now its about 16mpg. I hope to get better with the injector swap. I'm gonna do the mpg fooler as well and hopefully down the road, a chip. Maybe I can break the 20 mark? :hyper:

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I assumed you meant that each manufacturer has their own opinions on their products and their performance. The best mileage I have seen from my truck is 18mpg. That was right after the my transmission job. Now its about 16mpg. I hope to get better with the injector swap. I'm gonna do the mpg fooler as well and hopefully down the road, a chip. Maybe I can break the 20 mark? :hyper:

i was about 17-18mpg when i had the stock trans and smarty, throwing injectors in i was over 20-21, then i blew the timing piston in the VP-44, and now im down to 10mpg with the smarty on fuel economy mode. :lol: although i have a new Vp-44 on the way.

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The rv275"s picke me up about 1.3 mpg with a leaky fuel susytem I have yet run a tank on the highway yet, but i am hopeing for 20. I have only seen it once in my truck.

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My truck (stock inj., stock turbo, stock VP, 5" TBE, BHAF, Edge Juice w/Attitude), on a good day, will tickle 18mpg highway. I do about 90% city driving, and I hand-calc about 11-12mpg with a 6spd. No idea why, as it doesn't matter if my Edge is in Economy mode (1), or Tow mode (2) or Race (4).. It doesn't seem to vary. And I rarely turn over 2000prm..

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My truck (stock inj., stock turbo, stock VP, 5" TBE, BHAF, Edge Juice w/Attitude), on a good day, will tickle 18mpg highway. I do about 90% city driving, and I hand-calc about 11-12mpg with a 6spd. No idea why, as it doesn't matter if my Edge is in Economy mode (1), or Tow mode (2) or Race (4).. It doesn't seem to vary. And I rarely turn over 2000prm..

i noticed the smarty helped me alot in the in town mpg. but the smarty also changed the fueling map. I noticed that the 60HP injectors gained me a good 1.5-2 mpg mainly because it shortens the duration that the injector is opened, resulting in better power and a quieter motor.

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