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hex0rz

Auto trans & Exhaust brake

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Alright, so reading into another topic, I see a recommendation was made to make upgrades to the transmission area when installing an exhaust brake.I called Pac brake, and the guy said he had never heard of doing such a thing. All he mentioned was that the auto's have a controller.It really is not much for me to go off of. So if I go pac brake down the road and don't install a stiffer flexplate and input shaft, will I be risking it?

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I am kind of taking a shot in the dark, but it is my understanding to get the benifit of an e brake in an auto you need something to keep the TC locked up while it is in use. I am sure someone else will come along and straighten me out on that and explain it better.

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I am kind of taking a shot in the dark, but it is my understanding to get the benifit of an e brake in an auto you need something to keep the TC locked up while it is in use. I am sure someone else will come along and straighten me out on that and explain it better.

Yes, yes you do. You need the controller to tell the puter to keep the TC locked when in use. The pacbrake e-brake has a controller that does just that. What I'm asking is, do I need to have a billet flexplate and input shaft due to the load put on the transmission from the TC being locked up during e-braking. The guy from pac brake said he had not heard of having to do this... :think:

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I was looking at getting one myself a while back. All of the reading that I did, I never heard of having to upgrade the tranny. :2cents:

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I was looking at getting one myself a while back. All of the reading that I did, I never heard of having to upgrade the tranny. :2cents:

It has been news to me too. I hope that others could chime in on this subject. Especially ones who own an e-brake with an auto.

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I would be suprisided if you had to upgrade the input and flexplate. Your motor puts a whole lot more stress on those the the ebraek ever will. It is reverse loading but less loading maybe that makea differance.

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Alright, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and quote the statement. I hope the person does not think I'm throwing them under the bus! :pray:

Exhaust braking on a automatic is no more than accelerating at 50-55 PSI of boost. Same amount of force should be applied as a braking force. I know ol' CajFlynn has a lockup controller on his 01 Dodge and had (past tense) exhaust brake on it till it wore out. So it would be a good idea to upgrad the input shaft before using exhaust brake.

I agree, a billet input shaft is most warranted, because if you break a input shaft, usually you trash your pump, and sometimes the 2nd gear band area. I also recommend either a strengthened SFI flex plate, or a Billeted one, but a stocker should be replaced if you plan to use the trans as a Eugine brake, mainly because the torque reversals going back and fourth can cause the center to tear out/ or cause the plate to become out of round..

:whistle:

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Alright, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and quote the statement. I hope the person does not think I'm throwing them under the bus! :pray::whistle:

If you meant me Hex. no biggee. I have mlutiple tire marks on my back not from being thrown under the bus, but just walking right out in front of it.:doh::lmao2:As I said earlier it was a shot in the dark since I have never had an auto with an ebrake. I guess what i dont understand is how the ebrake puts a heavier load on the the tranny than the engine. Thats why i could not see the need for stronger parts. It must have something to do with the reverse loading. That being said Mike and Pepsi know alot more about it than I. Maybe they can explain that.

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If you meant me Hex. no biggee. I have mlutiple tire marks on my back not from being thrown under the bus, but just walking right out in front of it.:doh::lmao2:As I said earlier it was a shot in the dark since I have never had an auto with an ebrake. I guess what i dont understand is how the ebrake puts a heavier load on the the tranny than the engine. Thats why i could not see the need for stronger parts. It must have something to do with the reverse loading. That being said Mike and Pepsi know alot more about it than I. Maybe they can explain that.

No, I was not talking about throwing you under the bus. :thumbup2: I meant when I was quoting moparman and pepsi. ...now we just need to get them to chime in on it...

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Just thinking out loud here. It seems if My tranny(manual) is strong enough to withstand 600 lbs of torque from the engine That it would withstand the forces of the ebrake. I am thinking that the ebrake does not generate near that kind of load slowing the truck down. It does generate more back pressure when decelarating than I can generate with the turbo under throttle, but the waste gate opening stops me from going over 35psi. I just cant figure why you need a bigger input and stronger flex plate just for the ebrake. I know you have an auto and maybe that is part of the reason. Just seems if your tranny will handle the engine it should handle an ebrake just fine.If we keep talking enough one of them will straighten us out.

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Dang... There isn't any buses up here in this part of Idaho so I guess I'm safe... :lmao::lmao2:As for the input shaft and flexplate I don't see the need for upgrade really. But as for the TQ converter that is what is going to take a beating. If the clutch is weak it will slip. Then you know you got to drop lockup to gear down and then hit lockup again to gain Exhaust brake function. I know the 47RE trans has a history of weak input shafts and flexplates but I don't see anything that the exhaust brake is doing more that acceleration to exhaust braking. But I'll have to bow out of this one being I'm not a auto guru...

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Dang... There isn't any buses up here in this part of Idaho so I guess I'm safe... :lmao::lmao2: As for the input shaft and flexplate I don't see the need for upgrade really. But as for the TQ converter that is what is going to take a beating. If the clutch is weak it will slip. Then you know you got to drop lockup to gear down and then hit lockup again to gain Exhaust brake function. I know the 47RE trans has a history of weak input shafts and flexplates but I don't see anything that the exhaust brake is doing more that acceleration to exhaust braking. But I'll have to bow out of this one being I'm not a auto guru...

Exhaust braking on a automatic is no more than accelerating at 50-55 PSI of boost. Same amount of force should be applied as a braking force. I know ol' CajFlynn has a lockup controller on his 01 Dodge and had (past tense) exhaust brake on it till it wore out. So it would be a good idea to upgrad the input shaft before using exhaust brake.

:think::whistle:

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I too am not an automatic guru, but during my research for an exhaust brake, there have been many mentions of torque converter upgrades. I think this would mainly stem from the added amount of locking and unlocking. (the clutches slip just a bit at each application/release)

I personally can see that the added locks and unlocks would decrease the overall life, but I don't think I would prophylactically add a new TC. I would watch it, and replace it if-when it is necessary.

GL HTH

Hag

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I guess you can slam one in and see how you like it. What brand are you looking at?

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I guess you can slam one in and see how you like it. What brand are you looking at?

I was looking at pac-brake's newest system. Its $1600 to the door for an auto. It seems a little involved for what it should be. Uses a compressor, tank system. Perk of it is you could use it in conjunction for a load-leveling system and an extra port for accessory stuff, like inflate your tires. Is installed in-line to exhaust as well and requires a little fab work. Although, its alot more junk to throw onto the truck. Their older model is more simple and is actuated by the vacuum system. Other then that, I have not looked at many other brands too much. I know bd and banks have one and stuff, but pac brake is advertising about how they have this huge improvement in stopping power with their new model.

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hex,

I too am looking at EBs. I see the advertising from Pac. I wish they explained more and showed more details on the "new improved" version. I am in the same boat about the Pressure vs Vac operated. It would be nice to have the compressor, but it certainly is a bunch more stuff to put on.

Please post up your thoughts. I would appreciate hearing them. I started a different post on EB and exhausts, exploring the less expensive sides of vacuum operated and exhausts.

Have a good one,

Hag

- - - Updated - - -

Hex,

Look on ebay. The Pac kit is running less than 1200 there. (but trying to figure out what you need to "add" to the kit to get everything....lolz)

Hag

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Alright, so doing a little more researching, it seems I understand why pacbrakes is "better". It is actually really simple in how they achieve the better performance they advertise.

http://www.pacbrake.com/index.php?page=mechanics

I kinda of have accepted that it is gonna be a pricey one. Although, I know what I will have. On top of that, looking at their website, it does not show them offering any other exhaust brakes but this model. So I guess they dropped the others.

As far as clutter goes, I think I can manage it. I don't necessarily like the idea, but it justifies me adding in other things such as bags, etc.

Now, what Mike said IS TRUE about the kind of load applied. Their chart shows an average of about 60psi of backpressure. They also advertise that any retarding power is doubled. One instance shows a vehicle having retarding power of up to 300hp.

Now, I may call them again about this and see if they can comprehend it a little more about what I'm asking. Cause my truck just barely gets to 30psi boost and about 300hp. But for it to go in reverse, how DOES it affect the tranny?

- - - Updated - - -

Alright, so I DID call them again. Got a more knowledgable guy on the phone and pretty much helped me answer my question. What he was saying is that they designed the brake for stock trucks. He said your always going to be better off with better stronger parts in the transmission, but specifically made it compatible with stock trucks.

He said that the controller is supposed to watch the RPM's, speed and I guess also monitors slippage of the TC. It sounds like it is able to determine slippage by rpm and speed in lockup. If it senses slippage, the brake will de-activate to prevent damage.

He said that it would be better to have a better TC and VB than it would be to worry over an input shaft and flexplate. I told him I have a triple-disk and tow/haul VB. He said that I'm pretty much golden then.

Installing their EB's really don't look like a whole lot of fun. On my truck, the maxflow elbow has the EB components on it and bolts up to the turbo. But on the back side, the downpipe is cut down a bit and then an adapter is welded on. I'm not terribly fond of welding exhaust, lol.

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Thanks for the updates!!!!I had not found that data sheet. Hmmmm. Seems plausible.Too many options. I wonder if I can use the newer pac, but fire it like the original jacobs. I am not a fan of splicing factory harnesses. Too easy for corrosion to crawl in and cause problems. I will be removing my right front fender for this install. (It is severely damaged and I have a replacement) I need to replace my exhaust manifold, have turbo rebuilt, and replace the exhaust. So I am going to be in there awhile. I too hate welding exhaust pipe. I would like a total bolt in solution. Keep us updated!Hag

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