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JAG1

Am I just negative ? Or is our nation and world really on a downhill slide?

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Man! I can't believe the news, more violence and overwhelming debt are just a couple. How many you guys, like me, think we're seeing the beginnings of some insurmountable problems?All you can do is get in your truck, go campin', hunting, fishing. :thumbup2::think:

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Way ahead of you... I've been watching the collapse of the local economy here. The only thing that's holding it together right now in the Sheep Fire, Wesley Fire, and a few others locally. With most of the forest locked up and hunting is very limited I doubt highly hunting is a economy factor as of right now for us.We don't have the violence or the big crime up here per say but the local business are closing up and large amounts of homes up for sale. Local food stores prices are so darn high here its best for us to hitch up the RV and haul down to Boise, ID and camp out for 2-3 days and shop WalMart, WinCo, etc. and load up the house properly with bulk amounts. Price of diesel is up to $4.709 a gallon in New Meadows and rising. There is people here that make a living off of dumpster diving and fishing out scrap metal and hauling it to Payette, ID. Now down in the larger cities like Boise, ID and Ontario, OR I've been seeing more and more homeless hanging around WalMart and K-Mart. Sad. :(But on a another note I'm been released from the SAR's mission with the road guard duty and will be back here on duty once again.

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LOL< I just 'back spaced' a 47 paragraph reply to you! You are just talking about the tip of the iceberg... and are justifiably concerned!oh, to ramble on and rant!.... but i must keep to myself! I don't want to muddy up this cool site!

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LOL< I just 'back spaced' a 47 paragraph reply to you! You are just talking about the tip of the iceberg... and are justifiably concerned! oh, to ramble on and rant!.... but i must keep to myself! I don't want to muddy up this cool site!

Darn..... I wish I could have read that, Thanks, I feel better knowing I'm not the only one. Mike, I need a backwoods place in a couple years. Sounds good for someone wanting to finally quit and get on with life/ back to basics.

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Mike, I need a backwoods place in a couple years. Sounds good for someone wanting to finally quit and get on with life/ back to basics.

Call 208-628-3441 and talk to Carolyn Friend wonderful Real Estate lady. http://www.blevinsrealestate.com/ :thumbup2: As for getting back to basics I'm just about there myself. Very simple life style.

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Call 208-628-3441 and talk to Carolyn Friend wonderful Real Estate lady. http://www.blevinsrealestate.com/ :thumbup2: As for getting back to basics I'm just about there myself. Very simple life style.

Thanks for the link........ And yes, I wanna figure out how to just simply live again.

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First thing you need to do is move to a location where you away from any services. Like I'm 20 miles north of New Meadows, ID and 15 miles south of Riggins, ID. There is no cell service here at all. There is phone, power and internet. That's it. We pull the satellite dish off the house 8 years ago and no longer have TV either. No FM radio either. Since we are so far out power is a issue too. When storms or a accident occurs sometimes power can be out for 24 hours or more like 7 days. So I'm completely self powered here with hydro, solar, or gas power generator. I've got 24 volt battery bank hooked to 4Kw inverter to power the house. So the way I designed everything was to consider what if everything was to quit power, phone, highway washed out, no emergency services, etc. This it was the way it was for the 1996-1997 flood of Idaho. The highway was washed out in several places, power lines dumped in the river several places, telephone lines where yanked off the houses from falling trees just down the road. Our plan is to have enough supplies for at least 30-60 days of normal life. The flood had us trapped on a 2 mile island without services for over 9 days. It was tough. But we made it fine with the few things we did have. But now we are well stocked and ready for any storm or outage. You got to remember even every day shopping for bread, milk, and eggs is not a quick round the corner thing for us. Even this is a 35 mile one way (70 mile round trip) to McCall, ID. Like I broke a pulley on the lawn mower blade deck and had parts order for my truck (A/C Parts). Now you got to go to Ontario, OR for stuff like that which is 125 miles one way. This takes planning and consideration. You don't just hop in the truck and drive that distance to pick up 1 part and come home. What you do is delay as long as possible and get a shopping list together for Ontario, OR and then make a day trip of it. Like right now MoparMom and I have to do a Emmett, ID camping trip with RV to go shopping at Winco. This is where we do cases of can goods, large amount of meats, etc. This is slick because now you can store all the frozen and cold stuff in the RV and not hurry home. Not to mention after shopping all day the last thing you want to do is try driving 3 hours back up canyon. So at least you can get so good sleep and be safe driving home! I will admit there is a world of difference between the way I live to most people that life in a city. I always think to myself I'm responsible for my family and me. There is no one else out here to bail us out. What I mean is truck breaks down who are you going to call? There isn't cell service here. Someone breaks into the house the county Sheriff is over 2.5 hours away like calling 911 is going to do anything. So I have my choice of weapons to protect my family. I do work for the local fire dept. so fire protect I'm covered. But what I'm getting at is that I do not rely on public service very much to bail me out. I make sure I never get to that point.I better quit... :whistle:

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Mike that second to the last sentence.......:thumbup2: you got that right. Man!..... I tell ya around here even when you go to the local farm store, people in line act all put out because I still write checks. The cashier acts like I'm still in the stone age.Then we got almost everyone tailgating which is okay..... when the day comes I need to stop I'll get a whole new paint job. I'm payin' almost 4 grand a year in property tax and state income tax for the Gov't. to overdevelop with fast foods and stop lights. All we end up with is crowds, traffic everywhere.Be nice when I finally get out of here :thumbup2:

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I have looked at this thread several times and everytime I started to reply I realized ther would be no place to end the reply. If our elelcted leaders dont wake up we will all be in the out house. I dont need tham to take care of me or my family, I will assume that responsibility. Can you say 4 more years and a $20,000,000,000,000 national debt. Mayb I'll just go to Greece and retire.

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I have looked at this thread several times and everytime I started to reply I realized ther would be no place to end the reply. If our elelcted leaders dont wake up we will all be in the out house. I dont need tham to take care of me or my family, I will assume that responsibility. Can you say 4 more years and a $20,000,000,000,000 national debt. Mayb I'll just go to Greece and retire.

4 more years of mounting debt and we'll all be 'Greeced' :( For this reason I think silver will start to go up higher because it's worth smaller denominations in a sense, easier to exchange, not like gold where one coin is almost 2 grand.

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The county I live in is the largest in Ohio in terms of sq miles and one of the least populated. The largest city is about 30 thousand people and from there it drops down to just small communities. Last year, facing major budget short falls, the sheriff dept had to make serious cuts. There is now 1 deputy per shift to cover the entire county. With so much area to cover, they may as well have eleiminated the department all together. There is just no way one deputy can cover such a large area and handle everything that is needed. When this first went into effect, the sheriff made a live televised appearance to warn the community of the hard times ahead. He stated "Everyone who can arm themselves had better do so, because I am no longer able to protect you. Defend yourselves, your family, and your property." I sure hope nobama doesnt make it another round, he sure hasnt made any progress in this area which is largely agricultural.

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I'll try and be short. I'll go out on a limb here and make this statement:Nowhere in the constitution to my knowledge does it provide that a police force is a constitutional thing. It personally does not bother me to an extent if the police force is shrunk. The fact that they are hired by the taxpayer to provide a protective service is honorable. My father and brother in law were/is an officer. I have the most respect in their duty.BUT, if a dept. has to be downsized, it only means I have to be that much more aware of my surroundings and do MY part in excercising my 2nd amendment right. In the founding of our country, they're was no police force. If crime increases from a dept. downsize, it only means that those who are doing evil were only being kept honest by a presence of good. If the American people would excercise their 2nd amendment more, the evildoers would not have a chance.A police force is only picking up the slack that the american people have not picked up. That does not mean there is an excuse to be a vigilante or make it into the wild west...In our area, the dept. was shrunk back not too long ago. Crime has increased, yes. But thats a given because those who have become the victim from the crime have not done their part as they were freely given the choice to do so. People think I'm paranoid or have no faith for carrying a gun, but little do they understand that I have faith and 'am NOT paranoid. I'm just being real about things and choose not stick my head in the sand. :thumbup2:

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I agree, Hex. If only the govt and the media didnt "brainwash" America into thinking guns are dangerous weapons, I think society would be a much better safer place. Gun laws arent protecting anybody, theyre putting us in danger. The honest law abiding citizen is the only one who will adhere to these laws, not criminals. If as many good samaritans carried a gun as there are criminals running around with them, I feel there would be less crime. Guns make them feel like they have an advantage over someone who doesnt, if they thought for a minute the person behind the counter had a bigger piece than them, they may think twice about robbing the place. I am not an avid hunter, but you can bet Ive got a few handguns around the house. Yes theyre kept unloaded and out of reach of my young children, but theyre very easily accessible. And from the time they were old enough for me to tell them, Ive had many talks with them about their uses and dangers. Ive even taken them out back so they could see me shoot them so they had an idea about what they are, and the dangers associated with them. Knowledge is important, I dont want them turning out like our govt who think guns are evil and should be outlawed. :duh:

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I have looked at this thread several times and everytime I started to reply I realized ther would be no place to end the reply. If our elelcted leaders dont wake up we will all be in the out house. I dont need tham to take care of me or my family, I will assume that responsibility. Can you say 4 more years and a $20,000,000,000,000 national debt. Mayb I'll just go to Greece and retire.

We can make it out of this. Greece can't. Greece and Italy are like some frat boys who rack up $50k of credit card debt, and blow it all on pot and video games. They really aren't going to dig their way out. The US is still the worlds biggest economy, with the most manufacturing, and is still the R&D/tech centers of the world. We are like a professional with skills who way overspent on some stuff, got involved with some wild women, and got laid off. Now, theres some debt, but we can dig our way out... although its going to be through lots of games, and lots of different potential routes of less/more cuts/taxes/reform depending on what the congresscritters come up with. I think the economy is going to turn around a bit in the next 3-4 years. I don't think that we are going to have a "watch the world burn" moment anytime soon nationally. Though, I think that how well we do nationally is somewhat dependent on the atttitude of the guy wielding the "executive order" stuff... If we could just reform the EPA we would do so so much better alone as a country.

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Hex0rz, I got a few place you might want to hang out then. http://www.idahoturbodiesels.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=168 http://forum.idahoopencarry.org/ Both are good places to learn more about your 2nd amendment rights for the state of Idaho. One is the IdahoTurboDiesels.com which is a forum site based in Boise, ID and then the IdahoOpenCarry.org site for information about open and conceal carry of weapons. Personally knowing the police force is reduced and not as present any longer I tend to open carry my 9mm Star pistol more now. MoparMom isn't liking it much but what good is a weapon at home in a closet when you out travelling around the state? Yes. I've got a concealed weapon permit too so I'm good with covering up too. Like I picture I saw on idahoturbodiesels.com basically said, "The average 911 call response time is 25 minutes but the response time of a .357 is x,xxx feet per second." :thumbup2: With that being said knowing my county sheriff office is over 52 miles away. so it could be 1-2 hours at least before a Sheriff or deputy would arrive after my 911 call. :rolleyes: As for people there is still a lot of good people around here but lack of money, beer, liquor, drugs, etc will make good people do really strange and stupid things. So here at my place I lock up every night nothing is left open and unlocked. All vehicles are put in a garage for the night and even there the vehicle are locked up. RV is locked up, Guest house and shop are locked up. Even the main house is locked up at night. What is nice is the fact that since we are out in the wilderness there is no street lights, no yard lights, nothing. Trust me some nights are so dark that you would kill yourself stumbling around in the dark trying to get to my front door. Good luck getting into the house and trying to get out before either Diesel or I get you! :gun:

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I agree, Hex. If only the govt and the media didnt "brainwash" America into thinking guns are dangerous weapons, I think society would be a much better safer place. Gun laws arent protecting anybody, theyre putting us in danger. The honest law abiding citizen is the only one who will adhere to these laws, not criminals. If as many good samaritans carried a gun as there are criminals running around with them, I feel there would be less crime. Guns make them feel like they have an advantage over someone who doesnt, if they thought for a minute the person behind the counter had a bigger piece than them, they may think twice about robbing the place. I am not an avid hunter, but you can bet Ive got a few handguns around the house. Yes theyre kept unloaded and out of reach of my young children, but theyre very easily accessible. And from the time they were old enough for me to tell them, Ive had many talks with them about their uses and dangers. Ive even taken them out back so they could see me shoot them so they had an idea about what they are, and the dangers associated with them. Knowledge is important, I dont want them turning out like our govt who think guns are evil and should be outlawed. :duh:

Thank you. Unfortunately, IMO, I think it takes a 1st hand experience for people who are anti-gun for them to turn their thoughts around on guns. My sister is probably going to be one of them. Its definitely one of those things that I don't want to be able to have the ability to say, "I told you so." People do not think that history will repeat itself, but it does. The evils of human nature never change, just the faces. So when the blue hats get their way in the UN and our arms are no longer allowed because our constitution has been crushed by global policy, people will panic and get marched off right into a concentration camp like people did in the holocaust. They will have not a single way to defend themselves against the tyranny and they will have no one to blame but themselves. Now, that may have been an extreme statement, but its a good possibility it will happen... or maybe I'am crazy! When firearms were outlawed in europe, people had to turn in their arms. They did this willingly to the point that it did not take a door to door approach by the LEO's. When they try the same thing in the US, they will have person at the very least who will not go down without a fight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTyCD2n6HAQ BTW, on a friendly note, teach your kids the dangers of mis-use of a firearm. Help them gain a respect and deep understanding of it. But, personally, do not let yourself ever go without atleast one handgun totally unloaded. A home invasion will catch anyone off-guard and you would only be lucky if you were able to get one loaded cocked and locked before they took you as hostage.

We can make it out of this. Greece can't. Greece and Italy are like some frat boys who rack up $50k of credit card debt, and blow it all on pot and video games. They really aren't going to dig their way out. The US is still the worlds biggest economy, with the most manufacturing, and is still the R&D/tech centers of the world. We are like a professional with skills who way overspent on some stuff, got involved with some wild women, and got laid off. Now, theres some debt, but we can dig our way out... although its going to be through lots of games, and lots of different potential routes of less/more cuts/taxes/reform depending on what the congresscritters come up with. I think the economy is going to turn around a bit in the next 3-4 years. I don't think that we are going to have a "watch the world burn" moment anytime soon nationally. Though, I think that how well we do nationally is somewhat dependent on the atttitude of the guy wielding the "executive order" stuff... If we could just reform the EPA we would do so so much better alone as a country.

I don't necessarily think we are the biggest economically wise. I also hate to disagree with the idea that things will turn around in 3-4 years. I wish it were so, and even sooner! But, due to the nature of current things, I don't think we are even close to coming out of the foxhole yet. We have already gone past the point of no return. Thats a statement that is hard to swallow. We are only running on the fumes right now. Our debt has passed the GDP of this country and its only a matter of time when our lenders say, "NO MORE!" The moment we no longer are allowed to use that borrowed money, hold on TIGHT! Hyperinflation is going to hit a home run on us and our money will only serve us as toilet paper. Read this for a moment.

Hex0rz, I got a few place you might want to hang out then. http://www.idahoturbodiesels.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=168 http://forum.idahoopencarry.org/ Both are good places to learn more about your 2nd amendment rights for the state of Idaho. One is the IdahoTurboDiesels.com which is a forum site based in Boise, ID and then the IdahoOpenCarry.org site for information about open and conceal carry of weapons. Personally knowing the police force is reduced and not as present any longer I tend to open carry my 9mm Star pistol more now. MoparMom isn't liking it much but what good is a weapon at home in a closet when you out travelling around the state? Yes. I've got a concealed weapon permit too so I'm good with covering up too. Like I picture I saw on idahoturbodiesels.com basically said, "The average 911 call response time is 25 minutes but the response time of a .357 is x,xxx feet per second." :thumbup2: With that being said knowing my county sheriff office is over 52 miles away. so it could be 1-2 hours at least before a Sheriff or deputy would arrive after my 911 call. :rolleyes: As for people there is still a lot of good people around here but lack of money, beer, liquor, drugs, etc will make good people do really strange and stupid things. So here at my place I lock up every night nothing is left open and unlocked. All vehicles are put in a garage for the night and even there the vehicle are locked up. RV is locked up, Guest house and shop are locked up. Even the main house is locked up at night. What is nice is the fact that since we are out in the wilderness there is no street lights, no yard lights, nothing. Trust me some nights are so dark that you would kill yourself stumbling around in the dark trying to get to my front door. Good luck getting into the house and trying to get out before either Diesel or I get you! :gun:

Thanks for the suggestions Mike. I dunno if I will ever have enough time to be able to be a member of 3 forums. LOL! Back in Sandpoint, I would occassionally open carry. But after giving it some thought, I felt it would be more advantageous to conceal instead. Its nice to be able to make people do double takes on you, but in reality, I would rather have the element of surprise in conceal carry. Little do people know, that I've got a full-size 1911 .45 on my side ready to rock-n-roll. I'm shocked moparmom is not too hot on the idea of carrying! The wife will carry an older S&W .38 revolver that she got as a christmas present when we go camping and hunting. Were sold on the idea of getting her the Ruger LCR in .357 magnum when we get a chance to spend the money. I will definitely feel better having her carry a .357 that she can use when I'm not with her. A good comment I like to repeat to people is, "A gun weighs less than a cop." As well, give this a moment to stew in your mind. I caught myself thinking about the motto the officer has on their squad car. It says, "To protect and serve." Protect and serve, what? The people? Or, the law? When someone is murdered, does the family of the victim get to sue the city for lack of performance on the law enforcements service? No, because the motto, to protect and serve is not for the people. Its to protect the law, and to serve the law. Could be something seen as "way out there". But I don't put my trust in a cop to protect my life, its my own responsibility. I will literally put the big lug on the side just to go outside and take a "quick" run to the store. All it takes is that one time without it on and it turns in to the worst moment in your life. You just can't take a chance... I will vouche for you that it is nice to have it completely dark in the "middle of nowhere." The stars are nice too! Lol.. Being that I grew up in Spokane, once I moved to Sandpoint, people seemed crazy to me that they did not bother to lock their doors much. I always locked everything. On a side note, now that I have talked my head off, I always wonder if I can ever pull a trigger on a person. Not because I would necessarily be taking a human life, but because of the blood being misted into the air after shooting them. If you inhale their blood and they have a blood borne disease, your toast!

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I do have one pistol I keep loaded. Unfortunately it is so much out of reach if I ever did need it in a hurry, I may not be able to get it. Kids can be very unpredictable, and Ive always been really paranoid about one of them getting ahold of a loaded weapon. You can talk to them all you want, but when theyre little you just cant be too sure. I would never forgive myself if something bad ever happened. Its almost too much to even think about. On a good note, my youngest is coming of age and is getting to the point that I believe he truly does understand the dangers of them. He will be 7 soon. Im slowly bringing myself to the conclusion that I may soon be able to find a spot that is a little handier for me to stash my pistol.

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I have a Utah ccw but my wife and I are taking the ND ccw class in a couple of weeks as Utah made law changes that requires one to have a ccw from their state of residence before being able to get or renew a utah ccw permit.I conceal carry either a smith 686 .357 2.5"barrel 7 shot revolver or my Glock 20 10mm 15+1. I like the bigguns:pant:I just bought my wife a Smith Bodygaurd .38 special 2.5" barrel. I took her to the gun shop and she held many many small guns to find the one she was most comfortable with holding and the Smith Bodygaurd was the one she liked best and the factory built in laser site sealed the deal even more for her.:hyper:Here in ND a person can only open carry if you have a ccw.:cookoo: The only exception is while actively hunting and in the field. But ND game and fish rules trump ccw permits if you are hunting and you have a ccw the gun has to be unloaded while inside the vehicle.I could go on for ever in here but Heroz just capped some of what I was going to say and even had the link I was going to post. Kind of a breath of fresh air to see a younger gent who is reading up on what is actually happening around the world.I just went to a seminar a couple weeks ago and listened to economist Peter Schiff and a couple other speakers who broke down the whats and whys of our current situation. That said it comes down to getting yourself out of debt as fast as you can and then preserving your liquid assets and jumping into precious metals and or investing in energy and mining companies specifically precious metal mining companies. I have been reading and listening to many long term srategists who claim that in the situation we are in that land is not a good investment either 1 is it is almost too high in value to be a practical investment unless it is producing viable sustainable income via ag or other comodities and 2 is that is the first thing rogue governments will take from us.

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W&F, did you make it into the government seat you talked about a few months back? I wanted to know what things you saw when you actually "got in". From my perspective you don't see half of the story until you are "in" and see what happens behind the curtains.

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W&F, did you make it into the government seat you talked about a few months back? I wanted to know what things you saw when you actually "got in". From my perspective you don't see half of the story until you are "in" and see what happens behind the curtains.

It was a learning experience. I did not get my name in on time to get on the ballot to get elected to the national delegation but from a state level delegate what you saw the republican party do to Ron Paul at the national republican convention is pretty much the same as what happened at the ND convention and most other states. The establishment machine was scared to death of real change cutting into their corrupt control system. They had a high profile DC lawyer makeing last minute back room rule changes that only the establishment republicans had access to at most state conventions.:mad: :banghead:

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Perhaps I may be splitting perverbial hairs but I see things a bit differently as did those who founded this once great and now extinct nation.

I don't believe in "second amendment rights". The 2nd amendment to the Bill of Rights of now defunct United States Constitution was a document that gave NO RIGHTS to its citizens. It was a document to CLEARLY forbid the "government" from engaging in abuses of our Natural Born Rights (those very same right outlined in the Declaration of Independence) and CLEARLY stated what the government CANNOT DO. The only amendment the former United States government did NOT abuse and violate was the 3rd amendment. The Bill of Rights does NOT apply nor was it intended to apply to the individual citizen. It was put in place as a marker stone beyond which the government could NOT exceed or abuse.........IT FAILED.

With respect to supposed "right to own" arms........this IS a Natural Born Right that we are "endowed with by our creator" as he has created us in his image. The authors of the DOI understood this and KNEW that we WERE

to hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

We ALL have the right to life and as such the right to protect our lives. We are born with this right. NO man or government can lawfully or morally take that away for ANY reason. (this would include the governmental propaganda euphamism called a FELONY as well)

I think we agree on this but differ in just how we arrive at that understanding.

With respect to the OP's original supposition or question........yes, in a word things have slid down hill alright.........we are beyond the sliding and at the bottom of the hill but sadly so few realize it and REFUSE to see. They DO NOT want freedom......."they" want a just master.

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LIVE OAK,I like your perspective. It shows how the wrong colors can get mixed so slowly it finally changes the face of the whole nation with many never noticing.What you are saying too, not just about gun laws, gun rights, but, the very foundation, the very essence of the good people of this country is being slowly brainwashed destroyed disheartened eroded away. Can I go so far to say, attacking our own personal human strength / beliefs? Our very convictions for a strong honorable hard working nation?The more rules and regulations the more expensive freedom becomes. Unfortunately the rules and regulations aren't always for the good of the people but more and more for the good of taking in more revenue from fees and taxes This in turn secures their self perpetuation. You see the richer they become and remember if everyone was wealthy inflation would be so high no one would get the benefit of having lots of money. So by regulation and taxation they can make americans poorer and continue to have us do more work for even less. Essentially it becomes another way of procurring a future for the value of their wealth and the value of the assets they have. Communisn also creeps into a society. What was the name of that book most of us had to read back in high school? So we would be wary of the slow infectious change.

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I think you may be talking about "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. It depicted many of the events that happened while Stalin was in power before the start of WWII.

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