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Gridcon736

Still No Gauges

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I had the new PCM flashed yesterday at the dealer, he said everything checks out good, gauge check,PCM flash etc... drive home, all is well. Start the truck this morning to go to work....NO GAUGES:banghead:, half-way to work they come on again! 3 miles from work...off they go. I did notice something today during all this, when the gauges start to go dead the air-bag light comes on first,then I lose the speedo,then the tach, then you get the bell and the no bus code appears and all is lost. Then the transmission starts to act a little weird, you will be sitting still at a stop sign and all of a sudden it will try to learch forward, and if it acts like that, when you turn hard and step on the throttle it acts like it's slipping. Let me know what you got on this mess guys,I will not be defeated,I will figure this thing out so we all can learn from it!:woot::woot: Thanks

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sounds like s short to me. has to be. may be intermittent, but still a short or loose connection. what a bummer.!!!!

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I would have to agree on a loose connection or ground. Is the ground wire from the PCM to the firewall still intact?

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Yea, check the ground lugs. Loose ground connections will cause maddening issues. There are a bunch under the hood, they branch off of the neg side of the batterys. just follow the cables from the battery and you will see all of the terminals. Some go to the block, others go to the body. Just this week I decided to get new cable end terminals (the big ones that connect to the battery posts) So I took all of my battery cables off and brought them to nearby generator/starter shop and had nice heavy duty ones crimped on. Anyway, when I went to take the ground cables off the ones that connect to the block were LOOSE. I'm glad I decided to do the cables otherwise I wouldn't have noticed the loose connections. I didn't have any freaky electronics issues but just saying......

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Today i finally got some time to dig into this thing again. I had already replaced ALL battery cable ends, I went over ALL the ground connections AGAIN, pulled the gauge cluster again and made certain it was making good connection, I even cleaned the plugs on the Central Timing Unit! The dealer flash I had done 2 weeks ago only lasted for that day and that was really bothering me! What would cause the flash to only work for that evening and then mysteriously vanish overnight? Well, I decided to reset the APPS and.....VIOLA.....the gauges came back to life! The only problem then was that my Speedo was pegged at 120 and the brake light was on,but everything else was working. I started the truck multiple times and it seemed to hold all day. Then this evening I went for a drive and a few miles into it the stupid EVIL bell went ding and ALL the gauges went again! I hope some of you guys can help me figure this out now. If the speed sensors are to blame or the ABS computer etc...I disconnected the batteries again for the night and will hook them back up in the morning, do the APPS calibration, and see what happens tomorrow. Maybe the APPS is going bad? The good part about the APPS reset was that it fixed my transmission from shifting early,somewhat, it still goes into OD to early for my liking, and my OD switch does not work(the button on the end of the shift arm) but I will go after that when i get the gauges straight. One problem at a time! Thanks Guys

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Okay, now I have reset the APPS 2 days in a row and within 5 miles of driving the Airbag light will come on and then everything on the gauges will go dead. Hope this helps in the thought process guys!

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Just thinking outside the box here…………………………but years ago, we used to have electrical problems that would be traced back to the ignition switch be bad or just wearing out or folks having too many keys (weight) on the switch. Not sure how these more modern vehicles are wired in that regard, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to toss it out there.Another outside the box suggestion…………………how is your alternator???? These computer controlled trucks ('puters in general) require steady voltage in a narrow range of variability. You already checked your grounds; maybe your alternator is putting out variable voltage in a random manner. Not enough to affect the charging of your batteries (have them checked also) but enough to affect the electronics.Good luck.

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I have brand new batteries, and I checked the alternator several times, one of those times I did find that the 2 wire plug had worn the shielding off the wires...fixed that and now the voltage reads 13.94 down from 14.2 previously. I just figured that was within range, am i wrong on that?I do have a decent wad of keys, I might try that in the morning, just 1 key!On another note, I discovered that the wires going into the brake switch on the steering column were messed with previously, could this cause a problem with the ccd bus? I am getting a used plug from a donor truck tomorrow and will replace the messed one. Thanks guys!

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I know this is out there, but about 4-5 years ago I said the same issue. Happened, then it would fix itself, happen again etc. One thing I noticed was as soon as I would put high beams on, the gauges all came back, put low beam on and they'd all go out again. Weird but thought i'd add 2 cents on a similar experince. Luckily my problem vansihed on it's own. Shouldn't open my trap though because now when i go out tomorrow watch it happen! :lol:

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I also remember reading about a fellow that traced similar problems to some of the wiring to the column breaking due to fatigue from using the "tilt steering wheel" every time he got in and out of the vehicle.

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I have brand new batteries, and I checked the alternator several times, one of those times I did find that the 2 wire plug had worn the shielding off the wires...fixed that and now the voltage reads 13.94 down from 14.2 previously. I just figured that was within range, am i wrong on that?

I do have a decent wad of keys, I might try that in the morning, just 1 key!

On another note, I discovered that the wires going into the brake switch on the steering column were messed with previously, could this cause a problem with the ccd bus? I am getting a used plug from a donor truck tomorrow and will replace the messed one. Thanks guys!

So what was the AC volts out of the alternator? (Less than 0.1 AC volts is normal).

Battery temp sensor is doing its job as the battery warms up the charge volts goes down. As a battery gets colder the volts go up. But typically the normal range is 13.5 to 14.5 volts.

CCD Network is a 2.49 and 2.51 volt bus system works just like your Ethernet network for your computer.

What causes a Bus failure.

[*] Bus Shorted to Battery

[*] Bus Shorted to 5 Volts

[*] Bus Shorted to Ground

[*] Bus (+) Shorted to Bus (–)

[*] Bus (–) and Bus (+) Open

[*] Bus (+) Open

[*] Bus (–) Open

[*] No Bus Bias

[*] Bus Bias Level Too High

[*] Bus Bias Level Too Low

[*] No Bus Termination

[*] Not Receiving Bus Messages Correctly

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I think I may have a new twist to this mystery, I have been running the truck everyday to work this week and it has been cold in the mornings, the gauges come on at start up , then about 5 miles they will start acting stupid, well...I decided to plug in the code reader to see what codes were in there again, NOTHING...:cookoo: Is it just me, or is that kinda strange? If the airbag light comes on and your gauges go dead(NO BUS) it used to store a code, now it does not. Should I be looking for a cluster? Is the replacement PCM bad? :think:It never works when I am coming home from work in the evening only in the morning, and late last night I went out and after cycling the key a couple times, they worked! :cookoo::cookoo: I defer this to you guys as I am not a seasoned veteran when it comes to these Dodge trucks. I will try checking the AC/DC voltage today to see if ALL this is caused by the alternator. Thanks

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I finally got time to work on the truck tonight, I did the voltage test on the alternator and it reads ..019-.020 set on AC 20, so everything is good there!:hyper:Then I pulled the CTU ( Central Timing Unit) out and sprayed the plugs with cleaner and then with the CTU out of the way I could reach up either side of the steering column to reach the cluster plugs and made SURE they were seating tight to the cluster. Hooked everything back up,did the APPS reset and now I have gauges again! I will see on the ride to work in the am if the gauges stay on!:pray:I am also trying a brand new key in the ignition switch too, the old key was worn and seemed loose, so tune in next time to find out if it all works! Thanks again guys!:thumb1:

So what was the AC volts out of the alternator? (Less than 0.1 AC volts is normal).

Battery temp sensor is doing its job as the battery warms up the charge volts goes down. As a battery gets colder the volts go up. But typically the normal range is 13.5 to 14.5 volts.

CCD Network is a 2.49 and 2.51 volt bus system works just like your Ethernet network for your computer.

What causes a Bus failure.

[*] Bus Shorted to Battery

[*] Bus Shorted to 5 Volts

[*] Bus Shorted to Ground

[*] Bus (+) Shorted to Bus (–)

[*] Bus (–) and Bus (+) Open

[*] Bus (+) Open

[*] Bus (–) Open

[*] No Bus Bias

[*] Bus Bias Level Too High

[*] Bus Bias Level Too Low

[*] No Bus Termination

[*] Not Receiving Bus Messages Correctly

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Well, I have still been having intermittent gauge issues. Tonight I replaced the brake switch( on the steering column) and the transmission output speed sensor, trans output sensor had a metallic ring around it. Went for a 10 mile test drive and the gauges stayed on the entire time.:thumb1: I will see in the morning if that still holds true.:pray:The brake light and ABS light are still on, I think the brake light is related to the emergency brake switch and could the ABS just be that they have not been fully bled yet, or it might be the front wheel speed sensors?Is there a way to test the front wheel speed sensors? The good part is that there seems to be progress, Thanks for all the help guys.Hopefully I will get pics posted on here soon, was kinda hoping to what till I fabricated my custom bumpers and running boards/steps.:tease:Maybe over Christmas I can get them done.

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I know this is out there, but about 4-5 years ago I said the same issue. Happened, then it would fix itself, happen again etc. One thing I noticed was as soon as I would put high beams on, the gauges all came back, put low beam on and they'd all go out again. Weird but thought i'd add 2 cents on a similar experince. Luckily my problem vansihed on it's own. Shouldn't open my trap though because now when i go out tomorrow watch it happen! :lol:

Same thing happened to me I looked at it for two weeks and even bought a factory manual and still couldn't find the problem. So i broke down and took it to the dealer, they told me the pcm was bad but they were on back order. So i found a place in Florida that rebuilds them and programs them, put it and an nothing changed. I took it back to them they had the truck for over a week and couldn't find anything. They contacted dodge and they had nothing either. So i took the truck home and was messing with it one day and it fixed it self. That was last year so far so good this year.
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Same thing happened to me I looked at it for two weeks and even bought a factory manual and still couldn't find the problem. So i broke down and took it to the dealer, they told me the pcm was bad but they were on back order. So i found a place in Florida that rebuilds them and programs them, put it and an nothing changed. I took it back to them they had the truck for over a week and couldn't find anything. They contacted dodge and they had nothing either. So i took the truck home and was messing with it one day and it fixed it self. That was last year so far so good this year.

I wish that would happen to me! I have been fighting with this thing, I can get the gauges to come on if I rapid switch the ignition on/off but then within 10 miles it will flip off! Sometimes if I feather the throttle a little it will come back on or if I touch the brakes while I am still on the throttle. I don't know if its the replacement PCM or if my APPS is the problem? Hoping to mess with it some more this coming weekend. Thanks for the reply!

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Dorkweed

 

That was me on my 02, the main power wire going to the ignition switch broke and caused a similar issue but mine would not act up like his it was either making connection or not I couldn't even start it unless I tilted the wheel while holding the key in the start position.

 

It would be worth a check to pull the column plastic and inspect the wires going into the key switch, they are on the bottom side.

Edited by Wild and Free

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I just pulled a gauge cluster out of a buddy's truck and will try that in the next few days. Update to follow.

Well...I tried the other gauges and they did the same thing!!!! :banghead:  I did notice recently that if I keep the speed UNDER 60 mph they will stay on. Any leads on that? I did already replace the rear speed sensor and the tailshaft speed sensor. I am goin to replace the neutral safety switch this weekend and service the trans with a new filter and fluids. Merry Christmas to all!

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