First Time Towing- Is My Power Curve Normal?

[Mopar1973Man]

Remove the turbo and then remove the wastegate motor (spring loaded). Now using a small hammer a penetrating oil tap the arm back and forth till its freed up. Some members here have had good luck doing this and other ended up breaking the arm off trying (seized completely).

[AGPTurbo]

Ok, Tried to get the turbo off of the manifold.  I got the two top nuts easy- they still look kinds like stainless, but the bottom 2 are a no go.  I assume now that its prob easier to take off the entire manifold. So what gaskets will I need- manifold gaskets, turbo to manifold gasket- are there any others?

 

Also , is there a way to test the waste gate? The short vacuum hose(?) on mine has such a small bend, I don't see any way to put air pressure to it. Anyone out there done this?

AP

[CTcummins24V]

The 4 turbo to manifold nuts should come off, maybe try some atf on them overnight, either way doust them with some kind of oil. I used a combination wrench with a hammer blow to break them loose, a ratcheting combination wrench works well in that tight area. Gillett diesel http://www.gillettdiesel.com/turbochargerspartsandupgrades-4.aspx has a kit, but you want the undivided gasket if you have the stock Holset HY35 turbo, Gillett probably has both options.

Assuming you have the HY35, its's good for stock power and no more. You can do a budget upgrade for around $150 and get a used HX35, I got a used WH1C (same size as HX) for my turbo swap. For the price it's worth it, especially if you have to remove your stock turbo to test it anyways. I don't know if you can test the waste gate spring because the HY is hard-lined, but you can check the wastegate elbow for seizing where it enters the exhaust housing.

[AGPTurbo]

CT, Thanks. I have an auto with a hard lined pressure tube, so its the HY35 for me. I'm not looking for power, I'm getting a P0234 code, and from discussions the consensus is a stuck waste gate.  I need to service it, and figure I'd take it off and try to get the lever/ arm moving again. Looks like a weekend project, its my daily driver.

Thanks for the reply.  

[CTcummins24V]

Update us after the weekend. If you can't salvage yours I can ship mine out, CT to PA isn't that far. I just got a used exhaust housing shipped up from Bauer Enterprises in York, PA today

[AGPTurbo]

That would be awesome! But----lets hope it doesn't come to that!

AP

[AGPTurbo]

BTW, Is the turbo flange gasket reusable if it comes out in one piece?

[dripley]

I reused mine when I had my turbo off 8 years ago. It is however showing a little sign of leakage now.  I do mean a little. They are not expensive though and it would probably be better to replace it while you are in there.

[AGPTurbo]

Ok dripley,

 I want to tackle this on the weekend. I was just thinking if nearby dodge dealer wouldn't have the gasket what my options were. I have been searching the web and can't find a single person who has gotten this fixed with a lube up so to speak. Makes me nervous.

AP

[AGPTurbo]

Whoa whoa whoa! So now I read that who cares if its stuck, add a boost fooler and gain some mojo! I need to figure this out.

[dripley]

I am over boosting and you can feel a difference once I cross about 21 or 22#'s of pressure(engine defuelng) but it is not as big of a difference as I felt a month ago. I have no clue as to why. I drove down here on Sunday and drove the first half with my foot trying to keep the boost in the 20 psi range. My heel started hurting about then and I set the cruise. I started noticing boost pressure around 26 to 28 psi and she ran fine. Since unhitching it I can get 24 or 25  with no feeling of defueling. I cant explain that one. The only reason I am setting a code is not having a boost fooler. I would have to leave the in and outs of this to the more educated.

 

The boot on the bottom right of the intercooler on mine is leaking. Was leaking pretty good at 10 psi when I tested it. So its probably leaking a lot at 20+ psi. I have new boots for it at the house but no time to fix it. Forgot them with my camera for the 300k thing I reckon. Thats another story though.

Edited January 22, 2014 by dripley

[AGPTurbo]

Ok guys, 

Now that I know what is going on with the stuck waste gate, it is obvious it is defueling at around 2200 rpm.  I'm going to swing by Cummins tomorrow and get a thermostat, valve cover gasket, and turbo gasket kit.  I hope I can get the waste gate unstuck.  BUT- if I cant, would anybody think its crazy to do a homemade boost fooler with a resistor on the MAP sensor? I could also swap out the turbo with a craigslist unit I guess. Anyone do a boost fooler here?

AP

[CTcummins24V]

Most run a performance module that has boost fooling built in, like EDGE EZ or COMP, SMARTY etc.

For a thermostat, make sure it's at least a 190, or even a 200 degree (there's a thread on the advantages over the 180).

An HX35 turbo swap is worth it for cheap, good experience too. Both compressor sizes are 56mm, it's just the exhaust housing is bigger 9cm(HY) to 12cm(HX). Not a big difference but it helps. For me, with a programmer, spool up is the same, you just gain a little flow up higher, pulls a little better. The HY is nutless above 2200 rpm, peak torque is around 1400-1600 rpm.

[JOHNFAK]

Doubt the wastegate is having too much effect.

P0236 your probably defueling ..... need a boost fooler.

These trucks suck in stock form for autos.

 

You need 

Boost fooler

Bigger sticks or fueling module

VB upgrade (and ideally TC).

[AGPTurbo]

John and CT, 

you guys are very helpful.

 

1. Is there a homemade boost fooler mod? 

2. Should I even free up the waste gate or leave it suck?

3. Should I just swap out the turbo?

[TFaoro]

1. I have never heard of a homemade wastegate mod, but I'm sure someone somewhere has just shoved a resistor in there.

2. If you are going to get a boost fooler and you aren't going to add an edge comp or other higher horsepower programmer leave it plugged and just get a fooler.

3.If you aren't looking to go crazy with power, but want some extra boost I would consider swapping out the stock turbo with a holset hx35 (Stock for manual transmissions) would be the best way to go. Then get a boost elbow and a boost fooler. Make sure that tranny will hold though!

[Mopar1973Man]

John and CT, 

you guys are very helpful.

 

1. Is there a homemade boost fooler mod? 

2. Should I even free up the waste gate or leave it suck?

3. Should I just swap out the turbo?

 

1. Won't do much more than keep the CEL from lighting up. It will not extend your fueling map. So your fuel map will still tapper off at the same point just no error codes. This why I would suggest a good fuel module that taps the wire because now you extending the fuel map for what the module sees and pushing the extended fuel pulse on the wire tap. So when the boost goes past ECM limits the module creates its own map and extends the signal on the wire tap.

 

2. Suggested to fix it. Remember that turbo is spinning very fast and going extreme in boost pressure will in turn create hot boost (choke point) and possibly over speed the turbo till it blows up. Best to still have a limit to prevent damage.

 

3. Not really. Just fix this one by freeing the wastegate arm. It's really common to see on city drivers where the turbo rarely spools up good and tight to actually use the wastegate so it rusts shut. I would even go as far as just replacing the turbine housing if you can't free it. No need to get expensive. My little turbo mistake cost over $820 bucks.

[AGPTurbo]

I just want to add that I have no CEL. I only know about the code through the key trick and the loss of power over 2200 rpm. 

I'm going to try to get this thing off agian.

AP

[dripley]

Neither the 234 or 236 set the CEL on mine either, but it was quite obvious what was happening.

[AGPTurbo]

UPDATE: Just spent the last 3 hours in the garage.  I was able to remove the turbo by getting at the lower rear nut with an combination wrench by putting the box end on the nut and then i slipped a pickle fork over the wrench near the open end. I held the fork in place and gave it a couple of blows to loosen the nut and I was in business.  I WAS ABLE to free the gate by removing the gate motor arm,  giving the gate lever some gentle taps, PB blaster and by grabbing it with some vice grips and S L O W L Y working it free until it worked itself loose.  I re-installed everything and took it for a test loop. No more defueling, tons of power! First time I took the truck to 3K rpm and it was still pulling hard.  It was definitely worth the effort because I thought it was the trans just not being able to take the motor. 

Thanks everyone for the replies- Now onto this mushy steering!